The other night the group I'm in met briefly just to roll stats for our characters, this is for a new campaign.
I rolled 4d6 re-rolling ones, the bonuses haven't been added in yet.
+2 to Dex.
+2 to Wis.
two x 18's
one x 16
one x 14
one x 12
one x 11
Race: Kasatha
Class: Monk
Archetype: Weapon Adept
Weapon: Sai's
I'm fairly new to Pathfinder and I don't want to let the other players in the group know anything about what my character's race or class is going to be.
So what I'm wanting to know is, in your opinion how would you assign the ability scores?.
Str:
Dex:
Con:
Int:
Wis:
Cha:
Also I'm not sure if I've left something out info wise, that you need to know.
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Everybody is going to tell you to go with point buy, first of all. Don't listen to them.
Don't Monks use Wisdom for most of their abilities? I don't know whether they do or not, I haven't done the Pathfinder Monk, yet.
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Str: 18
Dex: 14 (16)
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 18 (20)
Cha: 11
This means you don't need Weapon Finesse, you have a good bonus to your damage, and handy AC thanks to high Wisdom.
Your saves also benefit from having high scores in their respective abilities.
If you are worried about having more skill points or want some Combat Expertise, swap the 14 and the 12 to leave you with 14s in both Dex and Int.
Thanks, that's what I was wondering.
If you're not doing anything unusual with the monk:
STR > WIS > CON > DEX > INT > CHA
STR first, because you look to be a damage build, first and foremost. If you're actually a tanking build, swap STR and WIS (which results in the same thing here).
CON is more important than DEX, because you're already getting WIS to AC.
INT and CHA are dump stats, but INT gets you skill points, so it goes before CHA.
Any other considerations?
EDIT: Ninja'd by TriOmegaZero. That's the spread, exactly.
First, check with your DM if it's okay that you play that race.
Ability Scores I'd say something like this:
Str:16/18 (16Str and 18Dex or the other way around, depending on how you want it)
Dex:16/18
Con:14
Int:11/12 (depending if you want skill points or Cha)
Wis:18
Cha:11/12TriOmegaZero got it down good aswell.
He's okay with the race, that was the first thing I asked about.
Thanks for the replies.
So something like this would work?
Str:18
Dex:16/18
Con:12
Int:14
Wis:18
Cha:11
Is there a benefit for a monk having a high dex?
Since you don't have Stunning Fist, I personally would probably put my second 18 into DEX instead of WIS. You get extra CMD from more DEX. That means your reign of terror is less likely to be ended by an enemy trying to trip, disarm, or blind you.
Well, dex helps initiative, AC, ranged attacks, some skills, reflex save
con helps HP, fort saves
Failing fort saves is usually worse than failing reflex saves, though you want to make both. AC helps a lot a low level and very little at high level unless you focus on it to the exclusion of everything else. HP will always matter, and each one counts.
How much shuriken throwing do you plan on doing?
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Since you don't have Stunning Fist, I personally would probably put my second 18 into DEX instead of WIS. You get extra CMD from more DEX. That means your reign of terror is less likely to be ended by an enemy trying to trip, disarm, or blind you.
Wisdom bonus counts against CMD and boosts both flat-footed and touch AC.
AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD.
...
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed.
Always focus on Wis over Dex first, and possibly Str over Dex unless you're planning on going Weapon Finesse and Agile amulets of might fists. Or just not doing damage at all. Of course, Str also adds to CMD...
Well I've really have to read up more, I still have 2nd D&D mode thinking stat wise. lol
Thanks for the replies.
Just received an e-mail from the dm, he said it was okay for me to adjust points around if I wanted.
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Okay so far this is what I've came up with. Also I included Kasatha player & Weapon Adept info.
Character
Race: Kasatha
Class: Monk
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Languages: Kasathas, Common, Orc and Dwarven.
Weapons: 2 x Sai's, Shuriken's
Ability Scores:
Str:18
Dex:14 (16)
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:16 (18)
Cha:11
Bonus Feat taken: Combat Reflexes (Combat)
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).
I want to attack at least twice a turn with both sai's, are these the feat's I need to take?
Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)
Also would it benefit me more if I dropped my str. to 14 and raised my dex 14 (16) to 18(20) by taking Weapon Finesse (Combat) & Agile Maneuvers (Combat) or just leave the ability score the way they are now?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kasatha Characters
Kasathas are defined by their class levels—they do not possess racial Hit Dice. They have the following racial traits.
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom: Kasathas are nimble and perceptive.
Defensive Training (Ex)
Kasathas have a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.
Desert Runner (Ex)
A kasatha has a +4 racial bonus on Constitution checks and Fortitude saves to avoid fatigue, exhaustion, and other ill effects from running, forced marches, starvation, thirst, and hot or cold environments.
Desert Stride (Ex)
A kasatha moves through non-magical difficult terrain in desert environments at normal speed.
Jumper (Ex)
A kasatha is always considered to have a running start when attempting Acrobatics checks to jump.
Multi-Armed (Ex)
A kasatha has four arms. One hand is considered its primary hand; all others are considered off hands. It can use any of its hands for other purposes that require free hands.
Stalker (Ex)
Perception and Stealth are class skills for a kasatha.
Languages: Kasathas speak Common and Kasatha. A kasatha with a high Intelligence score can choose from the following: Dwarven, Draconic, Gnoll, Orc, and Sphinx.
WEAPON ADEPT
While all monks train in both unarmed combat and with weapons, the weapon adept seeks to become one with his weapons, transforming them into perfect extensions of his own body. Through such training, a weapon adept seeks to attain perfection by becoming a living weapon himself. A weapon adept has the following class features.
**Perfect Strike (Ex) At 1st level, a weapon adept gains Perfect Strike as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 10th level, the monk can roll his attack roll three times and take the higher result. If one of these rolls is a critical threat, he can choose which one of his other two rolls to use as his confirmation roll.
-This ability replaces stunning fist.
**Way of the Weapon Master (Ex) At 2nd level, a weapon adept gains Weapon Focus as a bonus feat with one of his monk weapons. At 6th level, the monk gains Weapon Specialization with the same weapon as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
-This ability replaces evasion.
**Evasion (Ex) At 9th level, the monk gains evasion.
-This ability replaces improved evasion.
**Uncanny Initiative (Ex) At 17th level, a weapon adept does not need to roll for initiative. He always treats his initiative roll as if it resulted in any number of his choosing (from 1 to 20).
-This ability replaces timeless body.
**Pure Power At 20th level, a weapon adept forsakes the ideals of the perfect self to become a bastion of the physical and mental virtues monks hold dear. The monk gains a +2 bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Wisdom.
-This ability replaces perfect self.
Sorry when I was typing out the post above there was a lot of lagging so some of the stuff came out messed up. Dam Comcast!!!!
Okay so far this is what I've came up with. Also I included Kasatha player & Weapon Adept info.
Character
Race: Kasatha
Class: Monk
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Languages: Kasathas, Common, Orc and Dwarven.
Weapons: 2 x Sai's, Shuriken's
Ability Scores:
Str:18
Dex:14 (16)
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:16 (18)
Cha:11
Bonus Feat taken: Combat Reflexes (Combat)
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).
I want to attack at least twice a turn with both sai's, are these the feat's I need to take?
Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)
Also would it benefit me more if I dropped my str. to 14 and raised my dex 14 (16) to 18(20) or just leave the ability score the way I hasve it set up now?
Also would these benefit the character when using sai's?
Weapon Finesse (Combat)
Agile Maneuvers (Combat)
By the way, you won't be able to take Improved Two-Weapon fighting until level 8. It requires a BAB of +6 which you don't get as a monk until that level. Improved Two-Weapon fighting will actually get you 3 attacks. One from your main hand, one from your off hand, and a second from your off-hand at a -5 bonus.
I want to attack at least twice a turn with both sai's, are these the feat's I need to take?Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)
Thanks Aziraya, still trying to make sense on what some of these terms mean and for feats/skills if you need a prerequisite before you can get them.
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Ability Scores:
Str:18
Dex:14 (16)
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:16 (18)
Cha:11
You said at the top you had 2 * 18 scores. You seem to have lost one of those and converted it to a 16. If so your stats should be:
Ability Scores:
Str:18
Dex:16 (18)
Con:14
Int:12
Wis:18 (20)
Cha:11
With a 52 point buy (which is what you have here) you really can't make a bad character. This point spread would make me as a GM cry. How did the others in your group do? If there is a big range this game might get messy quick.
Isn't a sai a monk weapon? It looks like your flurry of blows would be superior to what you get from Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Two Weapon Fighting by 8th level. Depending on what magic items are available, you might want to consider getting rid of the sais since your base unarmed damage is 1d10 at that level.
Str: 18
Dex: 14 (16)
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 18 (20)
Cha: 11This means you don't need Weapon Finesse, you have a good bonus to your damage, and handy AC thanks to high Wisdom.
Your saves also benefit from having high scores in their respective abilities.If you are worried about having more skill points or want some Combat Expertise, swap the 14 and the 12 to leave you with 14s in both Dex and Int.
this is how I would do it as well
Thanks for all the replies.
Did a lot of reading this weekend and also talked with the dm.
I decided to stick with the weapons master monk, the only thing that I changed was the race, after reading thru the Advanced Race Guide, I decided to go with playing a goblin, so with that I changed the ability scores around.
Ability Scores:
Str:12 -2(10)
Dex:18 (22)
Con:14
Int:16
Wis:18
Cha:11 -2(9)
Tangle Feet (Combat, Goblin)
2 x master work Dogslicer's (short swords). DM's starting out gift.
Thanks for all the replies.
Did a lot of reading this weekend and also talked with the dm.
I decided to stick with the weapons master monk, the only thing that I changed was the race, after reading thru the Advanced Race Guide, I decided to go with playing a goblin, so with that I changed the ability scores around.Ability Scores:
Str:12 -2(10)
Dex:18 (22)
Con:14
Int:16
Wis:18
Cha:11 -2(9)Tangle Feet (Combat, Goblin)
2 x master work Dogslicer's (short swords). DM's starting out gift.
You have exelent stats but i Think you are gimpnig your self with goblin and low str. Dogslicers is gonna leave your figthing skills in the gutter unless you GM Will Fiat Them to monk weapons, and then you only need one.
You have exelent stats but i Think you are gimpnig your self with goblin and low str. Dogslicers is gonna leave your figthing skills in the gutter unless you GM Will Fiat Them to monk weapons, and then you only need one.Thanks for all the replies.
Did a lot of reading this weekend and also talked with the dm.
I decided to stick with the weapons master monk, the only thing that I changed was the race, after reading thru the Advanced Race Guide, I decided to go with playing a goblin, so with that I changed the ability scores around.Ability Scores:
Str:12 -2(10)
Dex:18 (22)
Con:14
Int:16
Wis:18
Cha:11 -2(9)Tangle Feet (Combat, Goblin)
2 x master work Dogslicer's (short swords). DM's starting out gift.
Actually the DM considers Dogslicers as short swords, so okay for a monk.
Monk Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, siangham, sling, and spear.
again don't skimp on str you want at least a 13 and you will want power attack feat or you will easly get out shined by any fighter, barb, bard ect. it is kind of a mandatory feat for melee.
I'm actually hesitant to agree here; True, he'll be starved for damage with his build, but in most cases, a monk really isn't accurate enough to get good use out of PA. At some point the damage lost to misses that would have been hits outweighs the extra damage added from PA. True, a completely optimized monk can make use of PA, but that optimized monk won't be having as many issues hitting, meaning PA nets positive, especially since unlike TWF, flurrying gets Full PA bonus on each hit. With that 22 in Dex, you'll be better at hitting out of the gate, but you'll lose your edge quickly.
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Okay, now I'm considering just picking up the Hello Kitty RPG. lmao
The following are monk special weapons: brass knuckles, cestus, quarterstaff, knuckle axe, kama, nunchaku, sai, siangham, shuriken. Their entries on the weapons table have the "monk" special property.
So treating the dogslicer as a short sword gets you proficiency with the weapon. But it won't let you do a flurry of blows with them (unless your GM handwaves that too). If you want to wield two of them, you'll need Two-Weapon Fighting.
If you take Weapon Finesse you'll have a very high attack bonus with your dogslicers. Without it, your attack bonus will be lousy.
Neither Weapon Finesse nor Two-Weapon Fighting is on the monk bonus feat list, so right at the start you'll have to choose: do you want to hit more often, or do you want have more attacks?
With TWF at level 1, you would get 2 attacks at -1 (0 BAB, 0 STR bonus, 1 masterwork, -2 TWF). If you hit with both attacks, you'll deal 2d4 damage (2-8, average 5 damage).
With Weapon Finesse, you would have one attack at +7 (0 BAB, 6 DEX bonus, 1 masterwork). It would still deal only 1d4 damage (1-4, average 2.5). But you would at least hit fairly often.
Let's say you make it to level 8, picking up a pair of +1 dogslicers, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (dogslicer), and belt of STR +2. Your attack sequence would look like this:
6 BAB
6 DEX bonus
1 magic
1 weapon focus
-2 TWF+12/+12/+7/+7
You'll probably be landing hits fairly often. But at 1d4+1 each, it won't matter a whole lot. If you hit with all four attacks, you'll be doing 4d4+4 damage (8-20, average 14). Of course, anything with DR 5/cold iron will totally ignore you.
By a staggering coincidence, a CL 8th Magic Missile does 4d4+4 damage, which bypasses DR and works against incorporeal creatures. So at that point, you will have spent 4 feats (TWF, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Improved TWF) and lots of cash on magic gear in order to be almost as good as a first-level spell.
Dumping STR is a bad idea.
Okay, kind of getting what your saying. Thank you for explaining it to me.
So dm said I can switch ability score points around.
Str:16 -2(14)
Dex:18 (22)
Con:11
Int:16
Wis:18
Cha:10 -2(8)
yes, you can flurry with it and you only need one of them. two offers you no kind of bonus other then having another one you hand. You actual don't even need the Sai. you just uses unarmed strike as backup weapon, it should actual be your primary. weapon as it will do more damage and go thru more damage reduction then the weapon sooner and do more dice damage.So is the sai a "monk" special quality weapon ?
Okay thanks, I'll stick with sai's and shuriken's.
Well I could switch it to this.
Str:16 -2(14)
Dex:18 +4(22)
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:18
Cha:10 -2(7)
I figure that he can wear a hood, he's one ugly looking critter.
An optimised stat array with your rolls would look like this:
STR 18
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 11
WIS 18
CHA 10Avoid a race with penalty to Str and Wis, have a bonus if possible in these stats. From the ARG, there are special variations of Aasimars and Tielfings that are great, as are Oread, a favorite of mine, which also have a flavorful and very solid archetype.
Also, with so high stats the finesse route is not recommended, it is essentially a waste of a feat.
The temple sword and the Sansetsukon are the best monk weapons for melee, and shurickens are fine for a ranged solution.
I looked at a few races that would be top pick for a monk but to me it's more entertaining to play something nobody expects to stomp the crap out of the enemy, not to mention role-playing it.
I've already started working on a history for this character, he was adopted by a monastery, his parents/parent left him on the door step because he was so ugly even by goblin standards.
So he grew up around different humanoids (humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halfings), but not goblins. He's totally unlike any goblin, clean cut,has table manners, dresses nicely etc. That's one reason I wanted him to have a decent intelligence.
An optimised stat array with your rolls would look like this:
STR 18
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 11
WIS 18
CHA 10Avoid a race with penalty to Str and Wis, have a bonus if possible in these stats. From the ARG, there are special variations of Aasimars and Tielfings that are great, as are Oread, a favorite of mine, which also have a flavorful and very solid archetype.
Also, with so high stats the finesse route is not recommended, it is essentially a waste of a feat.
The temple sword and the Sansetsukon are the best monk weapons for melee, and shurickens are fine for a ranged solution.
I looked at a few races that would be top pick for a monk but to me it's more entertaining to play something nobody expects to stomp the crap out of the enemy, not to mention role-playing it.
I've already started working on a history for this character, he was adopted by a monastery, his parents/parent left him on the door step because he was so ugly even by goblin standards.
So he grew up around different humanoids (humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halfings), but not goblins. He's totally unlike any goblin, clean cut,has table manners, dresses nicely etc. That's one reason I wanted him to have a decent intelligence.
I see. Well another idea that will put your goblin stats to better use and keep your monk theme is going as a Maneuver master monk 2 / Lore Warden 18. Use your high Dex for qualifying for the TWF feats, pick up a light weapon (no need to be monk weapon this time, I suggest one with the trip quality), take Weapon Finesse, take Improved Trip and Improved Dirty trick as your bonus feats and go to town. You will feel like and play like a Monk, but with the superior combat capability of the Lore Warden fighter. And hey, what is more fun than a small goblin tripping and doing dirty tricks to his enemies?
For such a character, I would probably use the stat array you proposed:
Str:16
Dex:18
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:18
Cha:10Remeber...
Interesting, I'll be reading up on what you posted, thanks!