Will you join my team, "Mahou Shojo No Sarenrae" ? They're a group of magical girls (Cleric, Paladin, Inquisitor, Dawnflower Dervish & Oracle/Dawnflowe Dissident) who all fight evil in the name of Sarenrae...
i like cute anime girls, i'm fine with it.
give me more of a description, and i might join it.
i might join as Sweet Nicolette, Holy Dhampir Sorceress of the Befriending Embrace (Fey Bloodline)
I will admit I was trying to play up the Sarenrae angle (IE, choose among these classes rather than add on another). But as stated, I dont like to feel like I'm pigeonholing folks...
I will admit I was trying to play up the Sarenrae angle (IE, choose among these classes rather than add on another). But as stated, I dont like to feel like I'm pigeonholing folks...Will you join my team, "Mahou Shojo No Sarenrae" ? They're a group of magical girls (Cleric, Paladin, Inquisitor, Dawnflower Dervish & Oracle/Dawnflowe Dissident) who all fight evil in the name of Sarenrae...
i like cute anime girls, i'm fine with it.
give me more of a description, and i might join it.
i might join as Sweet Nicolette, Holy Dhampir Sorceress of the Befriending Embrace (Fey Bloodline)
make her a dawnflower dervish instead then
she is still a holy dhampir whom befriends people
though the fey bloodline thing was going to be reskinned as being a sorceress of a Dawnflower related organization called the Befriending Embrace
I will admit I was trying to play up the Sarenrae angle (IE, choose among these classes rather than add on another). But as stated, I dont like to feel like I'm pigeonholing folks...Will you join my team, "Mahou Shojo No Sarenrae" ? They're a group of magical girls (Cleric, Paladin, Inquisitor, Dawnflower Dervish & Oracle/Dawnflowe Dissident) who all fight evil in the name of Sarenrae...
i like cute anime girls, i'm fine with it.
give me more of a description, and i might join it.
i might join as Sweet Nicolette, Holy Dhampir Sorceress of the Befriending Embrace (Fey Bloodline)
make her a dawnflower dervish instead then
she is still a holy dhampir whom befriends people
Defnitly a cool idea. So, a friendly dawnflower dervish dhampir...
I've got my half-orc inquisitor... Just 3 more...| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There's nothing wrong with a table where anything goes.
There's nothing wrong with a table that limits to human PCs only.
There's nothing wrong with a table that limits to Outsider PCs only, either.
Or anything between the above.
Each to their own. Table variance is what makes this hobby attractive to more people, and setting/campaign tends to define what's available (or not) far more than the ruleset does.
I'm not declaring any of it wrong. I'm just saying it's gotten a bit much and I want to vent about how much it vexes me to no end. I'm nostalgic about the old days of D&D and all this weird stuff is taking a big crap all over it for me. I don't want to have to make a list of the 30+ things I ban from my games. It's a personal preference, I don't like that Pathfinder is going in this particular direction. Never once did I say that this is the wrong way to play, I'm saying that I don't like it. There is no wrong way to roleplay, but the more stuff that is getting heaped on to Pathfinder makes it less and less attractive to ME specifically and probably many people out there.
Then play another game? I would recommend "Dungeon world". It has pretty much exactly the aesthetic you seem to seek, is super-simple to pick-up, and can be bought for a mere 10 bucks.
I see little value in complaining for the sake of complaining, when there are things out there that could make you happy NOW (and for such an affordable price too).
Because just as you feel the new stuff is taking a crap on what you like, many of us feel you are doing the same on what we enjoy (IE more stuff).
I will admit I was trying to play up the Sarenrae angle (IE, choose among these classes rather than add on another). But as stated, I dont like to feel like I'm pigeonholing folks...Will you join my team, "Mahou Shojo No Sarenrae" ? They're a group of magical girls (Cleric, Paladin, Inquisitor, Dawnflower Dervish & Oracle/Dawnflowe Dissident) who all fight evil in the name of Sarenrae...
i like cute anime girls, i'm fine with it.
give me more of a description, and i might join it.
i might join as Sweet Nicolette, Holy Dhampir Sorceress of the Befriending Embrace (Fey Bloodline)
make her a dawnflower dervish instead then
she is still a holy dhampir whom befriends people
Defnitly a cool idea. So, a friendly dawnflower dervish dhampir...
I've got my half-orc inquisitor... Just 3 more...
A Pink wyrmling (actually a red but has a cold) that lives in a magic ball, you just toss it down and boom I can come out and play.
Jumping on the anime wagon. :)
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the more stuff that is getting heaped on to Pathfinder makes it less and less attractive to ME specifically and probably many people out there.
I would be willing to bet cash money that the additional options attract more players than it repels, especially since you can just choose to purchase only products you will use.
Seriously, this is like going into a Baskin Robbins and complaining about the 29 flavors you don't like. Just order the vanilla or chocolate, while I get in line behind you for a tutti frutti triple scoop.
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Welp, that seals it. I wouldn't want to be stuck in such a "classic" game and am grateful it's not the default assumption.It's a matter of realistic roleplay to me. If it were up to me entirely, I would only allow humans in my game because I find them the only race someone can relate to. ****
Aaduhjubbawah?
That doesn't sound like the game I've been playing for the last 15 years or so.
I like races that are unusual, and I like races that break away from Euro-centric mythology and explore eastern or native American mythologies where anthropomorphism is very common.
I think a game that only explored the world from a human perspective would be bland and uninteresting to me, and I'd feel like I was missing out on a wealth of opportunity.
The human ability to perceive the world is incredibly complex, as is our capacity for empathy. By approaching roleplaying from the perspective of a being to whom the average human perspective would be alien and strange, we not only explore our own perceptions of those ideas, we can gain an opportunity for introspection and maybe learn something about ourselves that we didn't know previously.
Also, sometimes you just want to play a guy whose hair is fire, or who is also an orca.
...
A Pink wyrmling (actually a red but has a cold) that lives in a magic ball, you just toss it down and boom I can come out and play.
Jumping on the anime wagon. :)
Not a bad idea, but I would probably think it wiser to create something from the race builder... it might be a TAD more balanced at level 1 than a wyrmling (despite the race builder's problems). Maybe some sort of dragonborn. WHat class do you favor?
Not a bad idea, but I would probably think it wiser to create something from the race builder... it might be a TAD more balanced at level 1 than a wyrmling (despite the race builder's problems). Maybe some sort of dragonborn. WHat class do you favor?...
A Pink wyrmling (actually a red but has a cold) that lives in a magic ball, you just toss it down and boom I can come out and play.
Jumping on the anime wagon. :)
Nah just start everyone at 7th level, then I can fit in :)
It's not so much that humans (or the more common races) would work together better, but the odds that the only tiefling, tengu, vishkanya and dhampir in the whole region would ever meet, much less work together. There are enough humans around that you'll find some group of 4 that will mesh.
If the species are common:
There isn't really any issue, you meet a lot of people and for some reason these got stuck together.If the species are rare:
As outsiders they are less likely to have everyday professions, and the demographic of adventurers is far smaller; due to this, and the fact that adventurers are more likely to meet adventurers, again the odds are pretty good.
I mean, everyone I know is part of some quite small minority, whether racially, sexually, ability-wise or by gender identity. Most of us are quite "rare" in some way, and this has increased the odds of us meeting.
Yet few people would find it that unlikely that a pansexual brazilian guy; a trans girl; a bipolar, homosexual norweigan; and a nonbinary trans person would know each other. Because most people are part of some minority, and either it's common enough that you're not that unlikely to be part of it (like being brazilian or homosexual) or it's something one gets ostrazised for (unfortunately the world is still a hostile place for many, not in the least for many trans* people) which might lead you to get to know other people who are in a similar situation.
(Just to be clear, this exact constellation isn't a list of my friends; I think it'd be kind of rude to use my friends as an example. It is kind of similar in terms of all being part of some minority).
My good sir, this country was founded on complaining for the sake of complaining.I'm not declaring any of it wrong. I'm just saying it's gotten a bit much and I want to vent about how much it vexes me to no end. I'm nostalgic about the old days of D&D and all this weird stuff is taking a big crap all over it for me. I don't want to have to make a list of the 30+ things I ban from my games. It's a personal preference, I don't like that Pathfinder is going in this particular direction. Never once did I say that this is the wrong way to play, I'm saying that I don't like it. There is no wrong way to roleplay, but the more stuff that is getting heaped on to Pathfinder makes it less and less attractive to ME specifically and probably many people out there.Then play another game? I would recommend "Dungeon world". It has pretty much exactly the aesthetic you seem to seek, is super-simple to pick-up, and can be bought for a mere 10 bucks.
I see little value in complaining for the sake of complaining, when there are things out there that could make you happy NOW (and for such an affordable price too).
Because just as you feel the new stuff is taking a crap on what you like, many of us feel you are doing the same on what we enjoy (IE more stuff).
Many where. That does not mean it is the right thing to do. Dude, there are plenty of TRPGs that do EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT! Why are you sticking with pathfinder? Why are you sticking with players whom you dont enjoy playing with? It just seems unfortunate.
2) I really want to play this (I would be a tsundere half-orc inquisitor)I'd have to be the kuudere, although playing the dojikko would be a good test of my RP ability.
it would be a test of my RP ability to play a DereDere. but i will try it for once.
i play too many Yanderes and Yangires already.
If it were up to me entirely, I would only allow humans in my game .
IT IS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU.
2) I really want to play this (I would be a tsundere half-orc inquisitor)I'd have to be the kuudere, although playing the dojikko would be a good test of my RP ability.it would be a test of my RP ability to play a DereDere. but i will try it for once.
i play too many Yanderes and Yangires already.
Yeah, I wouldnt allow Yanderes anyway... far too close to CE (or maybe NE) for comfort...
We could be the Golarion equivalent of the sailor scouts.
So it's not the jokes, it's just that you don't like the other races.i like cute anime girls, i'm fine with it.But the anime lolicon jokes are just fine?I'm talking humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and half-elves. These days everyone is playing some anthropomorphic animal or some elemental being or just something that is essentially a dark and edgy human. The obvious solution to this issue is just to limit the races... But alas, this only leads to complaints upon complaints. -Sigh-. Does anyone else feel similarly?Been there, done that. Done to death. Trite, boring, cliche'd.
I'm more likely to eliminate the Tolkien bore-four (and a half) in a game world.
You're also less immune to being pigeonholed and stereotyped by the group, and the game world, if you're something less common. I will never, ever, play a halfling because I'll be subject to lame 'second breakfast' jokes and considered to be a coward even though halflings have been slender and had a racial bonus against fear for 14 years.
+1 to that
1. i can't stand the second breakfast jokes, so no halfling for me
2. i can't stand playing a short bearded guy with an axe and a drinking problem, too many people make jokes about bear and sausage when it isn't even october
3. i can't stand the jokes about antlers and veagans, so i am wary of playing elves and half elves
4. i can't stand the jokes about mad tinkering, the puns about punting, or being told "your name isn't long enough" or "your hair isn't rainbow enough" so no gnomes
5. i can't stand having to butt heads with people, only for them to pump their fists in the air and yell "Blood and Thunder!" so i avoid Orcs and half orcs
6. i can't stand being mistaken for random NPCs and being treated like i don't exist, so i avoid humans.
it's that i don't like them because of the massive amount of steriotypes tied to them, and due to their preconcieved cultures, and how i don't like being told, "i'm having BADWRONGFUN" when i play a culturally awkward member of that race, or play something that totally stands out like a Tera Elin.
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Maybe it's just me,
It is.
it's that i don't like them because of the...
I've personally dealt with too many GMs who tell my character how he feels about something, or in some cases, told me what my character does, based on his preconceived notions. If I don't say 'my dwarf hates that goblin on sight', then he doesn't, and I sure as F don't attack it.
The drow are that race to me. I've never seen a drow played that I haven't absolutely despised.Maybe it's just me, but the second someone sits down at my table and shows me their catfolk character, I immediately tune it out. In my opinion, this race is a magnet that attracts (and reveals) horrible gamers.
When played in their proper setting and with people playing them as classic drow, its pretty awesome, we actually had 4 female players (yeah I know crazy talk) that played a matron and her 3 daughters and they were all conspiring against each other and the other houses, and occasionally going on safaris into the upperworld, but yeah in mixed parties, I have seen to many Drizzt-wannabes, and most of them were..well pretty badly played.
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I've personally dealt with too many GMs who tell my character how he feels about something, or in some cases, told me what my character does, based on his preconceived notions. If I don't say 'my dwarf hates that goblin on sight', then he doesn't, and I sure as F don't attack it.it's that i don't like them because of the...
At least no GM has tried to tell me how my character should behave yet. It bugs me enough when they seem to arbitrarily limit my character choice (IE, you cant play a woman cause you aint one) but to not allow RP is unforgivable...
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the more stuff that is getting heaped on to Pathfinder makes it less and less attractive to ME specifically and probably many people out there.I would be willing to bet cash money that the additional options attract more players than it repels, especially since you can just choose to purchase only products you will use.
Seriously, this is like going into a Baskin Robbins and complaining about the 29 flavors you don't like. Just order the vanilla or chocolate, while I get in line behind you for a tutti frutti triple scoop.
This, tbh. The more options the game gives (within reason), the more likely any given player will like it. I don't have problems saying "no" (or rather, "no, but...") to players that ask if they can play something, if I feel it isn't going to fit, and we can usually negotiate something we're both happy with. Finding a group of players that fits your playstyle (admittedly not exactly a simple thing to do) solves most possible issues before they can occur.
Sometimes you have to admit that you're trying to fit square peg players into your round hole game, and that it isn't the rules that are the real issue. I remember oddball races being playable way back in the 80s.
The GM controls everything BUT your character (baring spells and silliness), telling me how I play my character is usually followed by me telling the GM how to find a hot place.
The drow are that race to me. I've never seen a drow played that I haven't absolutely despised.Maybe it's just me, but the second someone sits down at my table and shows me their catfolk character, I immediately tune it out. In my opinion, this race is a magnet that attracts (and reveals) horrible gamers.
i played an Hybrid Elven witch born to a highly infamous High Elven Mother and an Escaped Abused Drow Father whom sought Asylum from his people. she wasn't really defined by her race, nor her hybrid nature, but instead, by her Idolization of her mother's Greatness as an Adventurer, that grew into Jealousy towards her mother. she never saw herself as good enough to keep up with mommy, and while mommy Anira the Titanslayer turned to the bottle as a hobby, Rina the Fleetbomber turned to it out of depression because in her mind, she was never worthy of mommy's praise. she was a spoiled daddy's girl though.
she was depressed, and an antihero, but i wouldn't consider her despicable, maybe not the best concept. but she was defined by her envy, not her race.
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I absolutely agree with this for some of the core races. There are enough Dwarves out there (in my and many settings) that outliers exist. But for the strange races, one that acts like an outlier is comparatively much more rare.
If it's a rare race why would there even be enough of a pre-conceived notion about them that the player is acting like an outlier? And wouldn't an adventurer who's a member of a rarely encountered race pretty much be an outlier by default? If he did what the other members of his race were doing he wouldn't be at that bar looking for the next adventure hook.
I absolutely agree with this for some of the core races. There are enough Dwarves out there (in my and many settings) that outliers exist. But for the strange races, one that acts like an outlier is comparatively much more rare.I've personally dealt with too many GMs who tell my character how he feels about something, or in some cases, told me what my character does, based on his preconceived notions. If I don't say 'my dwarf hates that goblin on sight', then he doesn't, and I sure as F don't attack it.it's that i don't like them because of the...
See, I find this a bit silly. How do you define "stereotypes" for a rare race? They have none! Who's to say what stereotypical catfolk society is?
Also, Drow, despite their non-core nature, are fairly numerous (in FR & Golarion), which is why they have a well-defined culture. Same goes for all "evil" races. They simply arent common as adventurers (who tend not to follow the evil of their race anyway, and are already outliers).
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Full disclosure, i GM for my 10 year old and her friends mostly, so i see ALOT of Ratfolk, Catfolk and many, many other Animalfolk.
after growing up watching cartoons like Thundercats, Talespin, Darkwing Duck and such I'm fine with it, would i prefer they all bust out Dwarves or Elves or Halflings? i suppose so, but it has more to do whats fun for them to play, and i get to control the NPCs so I'm good.
besides then you get cool characters like Nicodemus, Ratfolk Oracle of Lore with clouded vision:)
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Your perception is another case someone of making the major and frequently dangerous mistake of taking the most extreme and vocal posters on the board as representing the norms of the Pathfinder community. They're far from it. They are exactly what they are, the most extreme and vocal members of the community, nothing more than that. Most gamers who fit the norms of the game simply don't post at all.
I have to agree with this. If the forums were an accurate indication of Pathfinder players, Paizo would have gone out of business years ago ;)
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besides then you get cool characters like Nicodemus, Ratfolk Oracle of Lore with clouded vision:)
ALL THE YES.
Either compare the RPG version of vanaras to the RPG version of elves or compare the mythical version of vanaras to the mythical version of elves.Legends of elves may not go back quite as far as the Indian classics, at least not in written form, but they certainly go back farther than Tolkein.
The Vanara of pathfinder are fairly close to the Vanara of Ramayana; curious and sometimes michivous ape-people living in deep in forests and jungles. The elves of Pathfinder are fairly close to Tolkien's elves, which is fairly close to the elves of mythology, but what was kept from Tolkien was to a large degree isn't what Tolkien took from mythology.
If one where to recreate the Vanara of Ramayana (and not assume the actions of Hanuman are something all Vanara can do), I feel one would end up with something fairly similar to the Vanara of Pathfinder (though I should say of course that my knowledge of Ramayana is limited).
If one where to recreate the elves of the poetic edda an similar sources, I feel one would be best served by making them quite powerful fey or outsiders - being more "minor god of the wilds" and less "pointy eared human". They went from immortal fey to decently long-lived pointy-eared humans with no inherent magical powers at all. I think the elf might work as a decent half-elf, though - feeling the call of the wild and having an ease with magic, but not having the inherent connection to nature that a fey-elf would.
Also, it should be said of course, that dwarves are (story-wise) closely related to dark elves in norse mythology. The dwarves of pathfinder are close to the dwarves of Tolkien, who I feel made the dwarves more close to the mythological sources than he made the elves.
While he certainly put his stamp on them, it's not really the same as the D&D version and he was reaching back to earlier tales to counter the sprite type image of his day.
I'm not trying to bash on Tolkien or Pathfinder for this - don't get me wrong, I like both Tolkiens elves and Pathfinders elves (though I don't really care for the D&D 3e ones), and I feel Pathfinder has taken a step towards the mythological background rather than away from it (unlike how D&D 3e did).
I like elves, dwarves and halflings. I think it's kind of silly though, to shout out the pathfinder versions of these as "classic" while dismissing a fantasy race that's been around for 2500 years.
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There is a description of each race in the books... Granted you can change that if you want but I like to take it as is. I take those descriptions to mean that the vast majority of the members of that race have all those traits, and the outliers at least have a few.
I also disagree with the notion that adventures are all that special when they start at first level. You look in the game mastery guide and a level one character could easily be beaten to death by a beggar, prostitute, or street thug. So special...
They're "special" in that they're unusual. Most people don't go out looking for trouble and risking their lives as a way to make some cash, and even fewer do it knowing they're not going to be part of an army with lots of other targets surrounding them and watching their back. Every single adventurer of a rare race is an outlier by default- the same ideas, conventions, or obstacles that keep their race secluded from the more populace races are ones that the player's character has defied or overcome, just by the default assumption of being an adventurer out in the open world.
Maybe it's just me, but the second someone sits down at my table and shows me their catfolk character, I immediately tune it out. In my opinion, this race is a magnet that attracts (and reveals) horrible gamers.
Same, but with Kender, not cat people.
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I agree with what's being said here generally. I'm the type of person that likes things to make sense, even things that don't exist. So when I sit down and begin running a game of Pathfinder I want everything to be 'realistic', as hard as it is to apply that word to a world that only exist in the mutual imagination of my group.
That having been said I let my players play what they want but when they ask "Can I play this monkey man?" I'll respond "Will you play him in a significantly different manner than you would a human?" Simply because I receive a massive kick out of immersion when my group plays and acts like a bunch of humans when they are all 'weirdos' as it were.
(Also monkey men are not 'classic' in any sense when applied to the world of table-top RPGs. I have no idea why people latched onto the fact there were monkey men in China 3000yrs ago. What possible relevance could that have with classic Fantasy and DnD races?)
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Don't get me wrong, all of the races in the books exist in my games, but I draw the line when it comes to playing as them. As an extreme example, everyone playing a dragon in a one off could be a lot of fun. But if a player came to you everytime you run a campaign wanting to play a dragon, that would become quickly tiresome.
And it's true, the problem is mostly with the players, but I find that I take whatever players I can get. Finding 5 of those with the same philosophy as me is rare if not impossible.Well, the woman who became my wife usually played a dragon in my campaigns before we had kids. So that worked out well for me!
I guess I don't see the problem. If you want to play something like Middle Earth, just tell the players that and tell them their options including restrictions. They will either say yes or say no.
Otherwise, ask the players what they want in a campaign and come to a compromise together. I prefer this method since I end up spending hundreds of hours with my players. I want us all on the same team.
Either way, nothing in the rules that I can see prevents either choice.
And, of course, you can always run an rpg like the One Ring (Tolkien) or RuneQuest 6 (human-centric) that directly matches the tone you're shooting for.
Final option would be make the humans so great everyone wants to play them. Maybe they get more points for ability scores or they get to roll 5d6 arrange rather than 4d6. Give the players a reason to buy into what you're selling.
The real challenge for your players might be that playing humans is boring for them. They don't breath fire or fly or have connection to the Lower Planes. Why be somewhat like me (human) just in a fantasy world when I can be totally different (a dragonman, a birdman, an elemental man etc.)?
You might look at Iron Heroes for human feats that create interesting backgrounds. Try to spice up being human. Between traits and feats I'm sure you can come up with something compelling.
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I agree with what's being said here generally. I'm the type of person that likes things to make sense, even things that don't exist. So when I sit down and begin running a game of Pathfinder I want everything to be 'realistic', as hard as it is to apply that word to a world that only exist in the mutual imagination of my group.
That having been said I let my players play what they want but when they ask "Can I play this monkey man?" I'll respond "Will you play him in a significantly different manner than you would a human?" Simply because I receive a massive kick out of immersion when my group plays and acts like a bunch of humans when they are all 'weirdos' as it were.
(Also monkey men are not 'classic' in any sense when applied to the world of table-top RPGs. I have no idea why people latched onto the fact there were monkey men in China 3000yrs ago. What possible relevance could that have with classic Fantasy and DnD races?)
I guess it depends on the type of players. If they want to do cool stuff and kill things they might not be big into immersion. Hence, wanting to teleport and breathe fire.
I think I'd tailor the race choices and the tone of the campaign to the group of players. Trying to get players to act in the way I as the GM want normally does not work out well for me!
Hence, I compromise.
Basically, as a player, what would be my reward for immersion if immersion isn't my thing? In other words, why give up my demon guy with a whip for a human with a sword just to please the GM? What would be in it for me? I may want to play in the campaign but time is limited, so going with restrictions I don't understand won't get me to stay.
As the GM, I would than try to find cool stuff that player could do and still be human if it mattered that much to me as the GM. Or you could say you play the game as a human but we'll let you have the race template of another race. You get it from a pact with a demon (tiefling), or the Monkey God (monkey-guy), or the avian demon of air and storm (tengu).
The GM then gets to bring in supernatural forces to the campaign and mess with the PCs. Instant adventures. The player gets his or her monkey-man played as a human. Happy player. The campaign is enriched. Everyone wins.
(Also monkey men are not 'classic' in any sense when applied to the world of table-top RPGs. I have no idea why people latched onto the fact there were monkey men in China 3000yrs ago. What possible relevance could that have with classic Fantasy and DnD races?)
Why is there a need to be relevant to any classic RPG/D&D races, ever? I don't think there is need. Now if someone wanted to play a game that somehow was a nostalgic style to old-time D&D fine. But why is there some kind of general expectation that all games must also be that?
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Why is there a need to be relevant to any classic RPG/D&D races, ever? I don't think there is need. Now if someone wanted to play a game that somehow was a nostalgic style to old-time D&D fine. But why is there some kind of general expectation that all games must also be that?(Also monkey men are not 'classic' in any sense when applied to the world of table-top RPGs. I have no idea why people latched onto the fact there were monkey men in China 3000yrs ago. What possible relevance could that have with classic Fantasy and DnD races?)
Agreed! I think 3000 years of Asian mythology is a lot more "classic" than what Mr. Gygax decided to put in the first D&D game a mere handful of decades ago.