A new hardback AP in 2017?


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion

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captain yesterday wrote:
S'mon wrote:


Ah, for me Varisia is a selling point! It's their best setting IMO; with all the cool flavour I'm more likely to buy an AP that is set there. And I may buy Shattered Star after I've run Crimson Throne & Rise of the Runelords for the reason that it is a sequel and would likely appeal to players of my previous campaigns. One Varisian AP per Runelord at least is fine with me... :D
you should absolutely get Shattered Star! super awesome AP one of the best:)

Thanks - I actually just ordered part 1 today! :)

The Exchange

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I assume that Mr. Groves is correct in his assessment that for 2017 we will get just the usual 2 APs, but one of them will be a "super special anniversary AP".

Unlike Jim, I fell pretty sure that the super special anniversary AP will have something to do with the runelords and old Thassalion. James Jacobs hinted numerous times that he is not done telling their story, that Shattered Star will have a sequel, and that the Sihedron will play a role in it. Given how Pathfinder started with Rise of the Runelords, it stands to reason that revisiting those immensely popular themes will be the way Paizo celebrate their own long existence.

And to be honest, I'd quite like it if that was the case. The kind of epic, mega campaign one could create by stringing RotR, SS and the third potential AP is a lifetime achievment in D&D terms. Besides, both RotR and SS are among the best APs Paizo ever did, which is saying a lot, and these guys just proved they are very good at this kind of adventure writing.

As for an extra hard cover - I said before and will keep saying that updating all the 3.5 APs into PF and binding each of them in it's own hardcover is a good idea that has potential to work. I suspect that the reason Paizo objects to undertaking such a project is a simple one that has nothing to do with business - they just don't want to. They are more excited about doing new things that about revisiting old ones, and doing the AE for RotR while still producing their usual project was very strenuous for them, and they just don't want to repeat that.
Of course, it might be about business - I am no expert and have a far lesser understanding of Paizo's affairs that they do (shocking, right?).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

On an amusing note, the last AP (Wrath of the Righteous) even had a Runelord in book 5 that the PCs could try to reform. So the Runelords CONTINUE to have a presence and influence in the world (even when stuck in an abyssal prison for over 10,000 years). ^^


This may not be the best place for this comment, but since I'm here, and since I think about this every time I read a thread about making hardcovers of the APs...

I simply won't use a softcover version of the APs. It's not the cost; it's the construction. I understand that they are very high-quality publications for the price, but in my opinion they are not user-friendly for one simple reason: they won't stay open on their own during the game without me creasing the cover and the pages within. The hardcover RotR fixes that. Until another AP comes out in hardcover, I'm not an AP user. Probably seems petty, and nothing against Paizo, as I love Pathfinder in general, but there it is.

Having said all that, I'd be an immediate buyer of almost any AP that was published in hardcover, even if it cost as much as all six softcovers combined, or more.

We all have our quirks.

If I still get a vote, I'd actually strongly prefer something that had zero ties to the Runelords. I'm more of the "been there, done that" mindset with them. But I'd take anything offered.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Lord Snow wrote:

Unlike Jim, I fell pretty sure that the super special anniversary AP will have something to do with the runelords and old Thassalion. James Jacobs hinted numerous times that he is not done telling their story, that Shattered Star will have a sequel, and that the Sihedron will play a role in it. Given how Pathfinder started with Rise of the Runelords, it stands to reason that revisiting those immensely popular themes will be the way Paizo celebrate their own long existence.

Just to clarify, I am not married to any one idea. :)

There is an older storyline that is/was quite popular. It lies fallow because nothing has been done with it. It lies dormant, waiting for its time to draw nigh. That was the one I did not mention.

I just think it would be a crime not to ever use it.

The Exchange

Jim Groves wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:

Unlike Jim, I fell pretty sure that the super special anniversary AP will have something to do with the runelords and old Thassalion. James Jacobs hinted numerous times that he is not done telling their story, that Shattered Star will have a sequel, and that the Sihedron will play a role in it. Given how Pathfinder started with Rise of the Runelords, it stands to reason that revisiting those immensely popular themes will be the way Paizo celebrate their own long existence.

Just to clarify, I am not married to any one idea. :)

There is an older storyline that is/was quite popular. It lies fallow because nothing has been done with it. It lies dormant, waiting for its time to draw nigh. That was the one I did not mention.

I just think it would be a crime not to ever use it.

Well, it's kind of hard to say anything concrete here while not knowing exactly what you mean... but the bottom line is that I think no other option is more likely (or appropriate) than a Runelord themed AP for the 2017 anniversary.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber
Rakshaka wrote:

Reminds me of part of an actual weird dream I had recently; I had to look up the stats for one of the villains in Second Darknes to see whether or not another particular villain could call down a meteor, and when I reached on the shelf, beside the Deluxe, black-bound Runelords book was one of Crimson binding (CotCT), one of mottled purple (SD), one of iridescent orange (LoF), and one of leaf-emblazoned green (KM). Sigh...

Sorry for rant, on topic: I for one would love to see a re-worked, hardbound Second Darkness. Probably not the most popular choice, but one that I feel would benefit the most from partial re-writes. (I'm not the only one who feels this way.)

I really liked SD, and while my biggest complaint was that cartographers hate me, mapping every gd building as a round peg on a square grid... but I understand where in around module 4, and 5 their was a serious hate on for the railroading. I don't share the opinion that what they did was bad, but I don't think rewrites could be small, and wouldn't be worth the effort.


S'mon wrote:

I know, I know, no plans revealed, can't cannibalise sales, etc...

But it is (1) the 10th anniversary of the APs (b) Has a precedent with the 2012 RoTRL and (c) Most importantly, will be when I will most likely be in need of a new epic campaign! :D

Getting APs in the UK is not a cheap or easy prospect. I'm currently running Curse of the Crimson Throne in Pathfinder - acquiring all six issues of the AP here in the UK was an adventure in itself! I now have everything from brand new & unused (#2) to used with the original GM's sticky-notes included (#3) to a laminated ex-public-library(!) copy of #4. Final cost inc p&p was similar to what it would have cost to buy the issues at retail in the UK, that's around £75 - maybe a bit less.
By contrast, just being able to pay £28 on amazon and have a copy of Runelords shipped to me was wonderful, and my Runelords AD&D/OSRIC campaign kicks off 7.30pm GMT this Wednesday on Dragonsfoot forums (places available). :) Those two and my Loudwater 4e D&D game will likely keep me busy to late 2016, but by 2017 I'll be looking for a new campaign. Which is where that tenth anniversary hardback comes in...

(Yes, I had a lot of coffee this fine morning). :D

S'mon - If you're interested I have an incredible amount of detailed information from CoCT campaign I would be more than happy to share. It all rests on my google share drive, so contact me with an email and I would be happy to share.

v/r
Mac

Scarab Sages

S'mon wrote:
Oh, my current #1 vote for the 2017 hardback is Skull & Shackles - Book 1 is effectively unavailable in the UK, so I'm guessing it's pretty good... :D Then I think #2 either Serpent's Skull, Shattered Star, or Reign of Winter. Not Kingmaker, please - I bought the first three issues and it's not really thrilling me, though I think it might work better in eg 1e AD&D.

If you're in London I saw #1 of Skull and Shackles in Orc's Nest two weeks ago if you're still looking.

And I have to disagree on Kingmaker. I would kill a man for a hardcopy version. It isnt available in print for love nor money. A version with all the kingdom building and exploration rules stripped out (all compiled in UCamp now) and that space taken up with extra content would be wonderful.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Carter Lockhart wrote:
I think it is somewhat safe to say that additional products may not sell very well for Varisia at this point, because there is already so much material for it.
I wouldn't say that at all. The fact that there's so much support for Varisia has helped make it one of the most popular regions in the Inner Sea area. There's still LOTS of room for more expansion there as well, in my opinion.

Really glad to hear you say that (again). I like learning about the more exotic parts of Golarion, but I always go back to more traditional frontier standard fantasy settings when running an actual campaign.


minoritarian wrote:
S'mon wrote:
Oh, my current #1 vote for the 2017 hardback is Skull & Shackles - Book 1 is effectively unavailable in the UK, so I'm guessing it's pretty good... :D Then I think #2 either Serpent's Skull, Shattered Star, or Reign of Winter. Not Kingmaker, please - I bought the first three issues and it's not really thrilling me, though I think it might work better in eg 1e AD&D.

If you're in London I saw #1 of Skull and Shackles in Orc's Nest two weeks ago if you're still looking.

And I have to disagree on Kingmaker. I would kill a man for a hardcopy version. It isnt available in print for love nor money. A version with all the kingdom building and exploration rules stripped out (all compiled in UCamp now) and that space taken up with extra content would be wonderful.

I eventually bought S&S 1 direct from Paizo, 2-6 were cheap so I have the set.

Fair enough about Kingmaker, I have 1-3 and might complete the set sometime. #5 with war & politics seems to be basically what I thought the whole thing should have been about. I find the River Kingdoms the blandest, least interesting place in all Golarion though. A Varisia Kingmaker would have been awesome - same goes for the Goblinworks sandbox MMORPG.


S'mon wrote:

I know, I know, no plans revealed, can't cannibalise sales, etc...

But it is (1) the 10th anniversary of the APs (b) Has a precedent with the 2012 RoTRL and (c) Most importantly, will be when I will most likely be in need of a new epic campaign! :D

Getting APs in the UK is not a cheap or easy prospect. I'm currently running Curse of the Crimson Throne in Pathfinder - acquiring all six issues of the AP here in the UK was an adventure in itself! I now have everything from brand new & unused (#2) to used with the original GM's sticky-notes included (#3) to a laminated ex-public-library(!) copy of #4. Final cost inc p&p was similar to what it would have cost to buy the issues at retail in the UK, that's around £75 - maybe a bit less.
By contrast, just being able to pay £28 on amazon and have a copy of Runelords shipped to me was wonderful, and my Runelords AD&D/OSRIC campaign kicks off 7.30pm GMT this Wednesday on Dragonsfoot forums (places available). :) Those two and my Loudwater 4e D&D game will likely keep me busy to late 2016, but by 2017 I'll be looking for a new campaign. Which is where that tenth anniversary hardback comes in...

(Yes, I had a lot of coffee this fine morning). :D

On this - Normally I wouldn't print out an AP and bind it, as it's more costly than simply hunting them down...BUT in that instance you list above...I'd say buy the PDF from Paizo and then print it in black and white yourself. Then go to the local copy shop and get it bound. Sounds like it might be a cheaper option for you.

On the matter of hardback AP's...call it an impossible dream, but before any of the others PAIZO has made, I'd want a collected set of Age of Worms, or Savage Tide. I have not been able to get either Age of Worms or Savage Tide.

However, on another AP in hardback, if they started NOW...what I'd want is for them to create a completely new AP for the hardback...have it as an anniversary one in the hardback only. They could release it in conjunction with another six part AP released as part of the normal line to also celebrate the 10th anniversary.

Just my preferences now that I thought more strongly on it.


I have full set of print kingmaker 1 to 6, plus map folio. Is there a market for these. I am in the UK?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My hope is for hardback and updated version of Curse of the Crimson Throne , this AP in one of the best ever created and deserve a great rework like Rise of the Runelords.

About the other Adventure Path, here in Italy we are more fortunate than others. The local distributor has made a localized hardback version of Kingmaker and in the autumn 2014 we will see the release of Jade Regent.
I have to say that this choice was much appreciated among the Italian players, but Italy is a strange and anomalous market. Is difficult to make comparisons with other countries market.


User69 wrote:

My hope is for hardback and updated version of Curse of the Crimson Throne , this AP in one of the best ever created and deserve a great rework like Rise of the Runelords.

RotRL did get a rework but i wouldn't call it great (i would call it adequate).


Crimson Throne is by far the best candidate for the AE treatment.

- It's the next AP after Runelords (and by extension, still in the 3.5 zone).
- Out of stock (I'm still short one book having grabbed the rest in the last big sale).
- Excellent.
- Packed full of NPCs who really really beg to be remade using the Advanced Class Guide. Swashbucklers, Shamans, and Warpriests all over. Maybe even a Bloodrager or two.


I guess I have to accept that the best option for 2017 would be Pathfinder: Curse of the Crimson Throne. It's great, but it would REALLY benefit from cleaning up and updating like RoTRL. I think that would sell like hot cakes.

I'll have finished GMing it by then, but I'd STILL likely buy the hardback. :D


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Gliz wrote:

This may not be the best place for this comment, but since I'm here, and since I think about this every time I read a thread about making hardcovers of the APs...

I simply won't use a softcover version of the APs. It's not the cost; it's the construction. I understand that they are very high-quality publications for the price, but in my opinion they are not user-friendly for one simple reason: they won't stay open on their own during the game without me creasing the cover and the pages within. The hardcover RotR fixes that. Until another AP comes out in hardcover, I'm not an AP user. Probably seems petty, and nothing against Paizo, as I love Pathfinder in general, but there it is.

There is a simple solution to this. Purchase the PDF of the AP. Then have it printed out at Staples or some other store that does printing, with a three-ring punch for the papers and put it in a binder. You thus have the AP, can open it to specific pages, remove pages as needed, and even can only have specific sections printed out (leaving out the advertisements at the end and the fluff fiction bits). You can even remove pages as needed for the game, which you can't do with the hardcovers.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My 2 cents

Hardcover AP

While I would love to see another hardcover AP of a 3.5 version adventure path, there are a few points to look at.

1.Is it sold out: The AP needs to be completely empty from Paizo's warehouse in order for a revision to be economical to sell.

2.Rule Revision: Are there things in the AP that could be updated, the more it needs, the more time it takes.

3.Popularity: The AP needs to have enough favoritism from the consumer market in order to make selling it worthwhile.

With these points here is my opinion on each of the AP's that could be updated starting from the most likely to the least.

Spoiler:

COTCT: Many players enjoyed their adventures in the city of Korvosa, and many want to do so again. With the updates to character classes and the inclusion of new classes like Alchemist and Swashbuckler since it ended, many of the characters can get a few adaptations to fit the new classes. At the same time being able to update the class options in the players guide can introduce a new audience to the events in Korvosa. The AP is either sold out or almost sold out so marketing a new version shouldn't be a problem. and by the number of reviews and the legacy of the AP, a new hardcover of it would definitely sell. This is the one AP that is most likely to be called out on a date with Hardcover to the Pathfinder ball.

SD: This AP is one of the most difficult of the first AP sets to play in terms of storytelling and player character design, as the shift from rising lords of Riddleport to saviors of the elven people doesn't seem to work as well as it could. This AP while one of the least favored to play also needs the most work! so a hardcover of this AP could be the answer to this dilemma as long as the original series is already sold out. However this also means that the process of updating and transforming the AP may take even longer and use more time then ROTR did, so unless you plan to start working on this earlier expect it to be a time consuming project. But this AP is also like the science project you've started that you wish you could restart all over again.

LOF: This AP is the least discussed in terms of interest so Hardcovering it may be more waste that gain (but I don't know that for sure). however the new details about elemental races and their descendents would make this an entertaining edition to produce. the only other reason would be to update it from 3.5 to pathfinder game systems. This however is also the most likely AP to never see an update into pathfinder system or hardcover.

Two others that could be updated.

COT: This urban AP could use an update for many of it's NPC's as the Hellknight prestige classes have been changed and altered since they were first introduced. Also with new developments for Tieflings and materials for diabolism have come out, the whole player experience could use a refresher. like a fresh martini from the bar during a formal event.

Kingmaker: With the new rules on kingdom building in place and more details about aldori swordlords, who wouldn't want to revisit this kingdom building classic. There is demand and many details that can be looked at more heavily, nonetheless this AP while not demanding it is silently sitting in the backseat saying "Are we there yet?"

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