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So yeah. What are things in Pathfinder that you personally love, even though you suspect you're in the minority?
I'll start us off: Guns. I don't care if they do no more damage than the other regular weapons, just the sheer fact that I can look on a weapons list and see a revolver comforts me. I don't know why, but I love having a character with a gun in a holster, and the ability to shoot something in the face or the stomach. In fact, I'm currently working on a guy that's, like, an expy of Teddy Roosevelt, who was off hunting elephants in Africa when he finds himself in Golarion. Cue gunfights and John Wayne-style haymakers.
Alright, now you guys go.
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"Rules bloat."
I enjoy looking through tons of feats and options and finding something that could be awesome if used in the right build. I liked that about 3.5; so much material that you could always find something that filled you with mechanical wonder.
Monkey Grip.
In 3.5, you could have off-sized weapons and there was a penalty for that. Now, thanks to one sentence added, we have a penalty, an iconic, and an archetype built around oversized weapons which don't work.
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I love that there is no monkey grip feat and that the iconic and her archetype work without using large two-handed weapons.
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I will agree with the "rules bloat" thing chaos effect mentioned. The sheer diversity is what keeps me with pathfinder rather than going for a simpler system but with considerably less options. I've had GMs allow everything from the race builder to spell creation, and while I myself am not quite there, I will gladly allow it someday.
I also enjoy alignement. Then again, I may be less rigid with alignement than some.
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Hero Points. I'm not sure if it's so much that people dislike them, as people just don't see the need enough to introduce an optional system into the game, but I like them a lot both from the player perspective and the DM perspective. From the player perspective, it adds greater narrative power to my characters, and makes it so I can kind of have a buffer against getting screwed over by the dice. And from a DM perspective, it gives a "currency" for me to use, when the players come up with an idea that relies on some level of serendipity to occur.
As an aside, on the rules bloat thing, I think I would have a lot more of a problem with it, if the SRD were not a thing, since the days of digging through books to find the right feat or whatever, was a nightmare. Still, I think Paizo has been doing a good job limiting themselves, as, while I don't mind the pace at which they release stuff, releasing too much new content, too quickly (and often poorly balanced or playtested) was one of my big problems with 3.5
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Mystic Theurges. No other casting class or method has ever had as much draw or flavor for me as the good old reliable theurge.
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Alignment and Objective Morality. No, seriously. I've never had a problem with them in roleplaying games.
Also Wounds and Vigor alternate rules. They've always had much more appeal to me than simple hit points.
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Fluff.
Seriously. I love the Golarion setting. However, I have yet to see a GM who will let me do with a character what Paizo does with their own material.
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Dex to damage options.
I know some people decry Dervish Dance and the Agile enchant as terrible, but I like them and would prefer that there were more. Doing damage by accurately hitting weak points, rather than brute force, is a trope I enjoy.
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Fluff.
Seriously. I love the Golarion setting. However, I have yet to see a GM who will let me do with a character what Paizo does with their own material.
There...there are people who don't like Golarion?! *boggles*
Okay, I'm exaggerating, but really, that setting is just awesome, and I can't comprehend people not liking it.
On Topic:
Cool rule combinations. Not the silly ones that only work by a technicality, but cool stuff like Butterfly Sting and TWF with kukris + a Barbarian with a Scythe, or a Heavens Oracle jacking his Save DCs and messing up the opposition with Color Spray, or a Barbarian taking a level of Oracle for rage-cycling. As long as there's good fluff to go with it, badassness makes me happy, and even more so if it's a bit clever.
Paladins. I like 'em, and while I understand why others don't, I think that's mostly due to bad players and GMs.
EDIT:
Dex to damage options.
I know some people decry Dervish Dance and the Agile enchant as terrible, but I like them and would prefer that there were more. Doing damage by accurately hitting weak points, rather than brute force, is a trope I enjoy.
Oh! And this. They should cost something (to keep them from being necessary and universal), but they should totally be available.
They like Golarion as a setting but from what I see they don't like giving options to players unless it's prepackaged in the books. So, they don't give players the custom options most of the characters you read about in the APs, tales books, etc. All you'll ever have in their games is just your class features and numbers.
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Vancian spellcasting, but also modified Vancian ala spontaneous- which I slightly prefer.
Archetypes rather than PrCs.
Alignments, LG paladins.
The new Inquisitor class!!!!
Useful bards.
Channeling!!
Mythic.
Dangerous fighters.
RAI trumps RAW.
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I love maps and miniatures and the mathematical precision of movement. I love line of sight and flanking and positioning. I love attacks of opportunity. I love parcelling out all the various actions: move, swift, standard, full round, immediate, free.
As someone who just recently returned to RPGs after years of playing miniatures games (Warhammer, Heroclix), all this kind of stuff just makes me giddy. :)
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Chase scenes:
I love running them. My players usually enjoy them in my games. But when I bring them up among my friends and fellow players/GMs, I usually get a response something like,
"Yeah, I like YOUR chase scenes, but I hate running them in MY games, and usually hate them when other GMs run them too. But the one you just ran was pretty cool!"
The Grapple Rules:
I LOVE playing Grapple builds. Many peeps I've encountered hate the rules, or groan when a grappler is at their table. I try to counter this by being quick with my turns, smart with my choices and bringing a firm knowledge of the rules as well as a happy desire to discuss them if asked.
Guns:
I love a dash of steampunk and simple firearms in my fantasy. I know a lot of people do not. That's cool. In fact, as much as I didn't want to, I gave my Skull & Shackles players the option of playing the AP with or without simple firearms. I was happy, however, when they enthusiastically chose to include some firearms options in their character builds, and asked for some to be included in the AP.
Swallow Whole-
Many people consider it on a PC to be creepy and weird at worst or at best still unhelpful and not worth going after.
I just find it very satisfying when my character or his pet munch down a bad guy.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I love the Pathfinder ruleset. When you're sufficiently proficient with it, it's actually a very solid system that produces remarkably few real issues. Just about every time I hear someone complain about the rules getting in the way of the fun/story/whatever, the issue they're seeing is actually being produced by their own faulty understanding of the rules, and usually the correct understanding of the rules produces the thing they thought the rules were preventing.
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I like options so the concept of "rules bloat" is an illusion;) Since you don't have to allow everything that is available then there is no real problem. So let us have our new toys regardless if it is robots, guns, psychic magic, aliens, new 0HD races, new spells, new feats, archetypes, prestige classes, bloodlines, classes, magic items, traits, alchemical items, technology, monsters, familiars, animal companions, etc.
Also why do we already have rules for guns, robots, spaceships, clockworks, cars, airships, etc., but no rules for trains?
Design Manager
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"Rules bloat."
I enjoy looking through tons of feats and options and finding something that could be awesome if used in the right build. I liked that about 3.5; so much material that you could always find something that filled you with mechanical wonder.
Agreed. Every now and then I go back to my 3.5 books and I still find something awesome I never noticed before. I can do the same (to a degree) with Pathfinder, but flicking through a ton of softcover splat books lacks the ease and focus of the ol' 3.5 Complete series.
I also love Teamwork feats. They don't seem to be appreciated by as big a swath of the people who I hear talking about them, but I absolutely love them. I'm big on anything that makes play less an arms race trying to determine who has the most awesome character and more about the players trying to come up with and execute powerful combos that involve two or more players.
I also really like the Cavalier, and not just because of Tactician (which I honestly don't think is particularly good, even more so since no mind was paid to ensuring that Teamwork feats were created to synergize with the two base classes that have them built in), but because I like the Orders, the Challenges, and the mounted combat.
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Rogues. There are characters that can do many roguish things--often better than a rogue--but for the overall archetypal experience, accept no substitutes.
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Design Manager
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Rogues. There are characters that can do many roguish things--often better than a rogue--but for the overall archetypal experience, accept no substitutes.
I like Rogues too. There's a certain versatility and flair to the Rogue that draws me in. It might even be the fact that they're on the lower end of the curve that draws me to them; having to work a little harder to get the payoff can actually feel pretty rewarding sometimes.
Clerics without the Healing or Good domains on a Good aligned party. Man I love all the hate that my teammates throw at me!
Fluff.
Seriously. I love the Golarion setting. However, I have yet to see a GM who will let me do with a character what Paizo does with their own material.
There...there are people who don't like Golarion?! *boggles*
Okay, I'm exaggerating, but really, that setting is just awesome, and I can't comprehend people not liking it.
There are folks who balk at the verisimilitude (or lack thereof) of a setting where there is 15th century Russia, with a demon spewing hell pit on one side and Vikings on the other. I don't mind it, and kind of enjoy it, but I can see where people could have problems.
On topic: I'm also a fan of LG Paladins and class alignment restrictions.
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I actually like the Alignment rules.
And I have no problem with the so-called "bloat", whether it pertains to rules, classes, feats, or spells. Options are great, and the more options the better.
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I love the fact that I can invoke this trope Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot Like so
XP 19,200
Android Zombie Lord Inner Sea Pirate 5/Ninja 5
NE Medium undead
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +18
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Defense
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AC 18, touch 16, flat-footed 12 (+5 Dex, +2 natural, +1 dodge)
hp 153 (12d8+41)
Fort +5, Ref +12, Will +7; +4 racial bonus vs. mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, and stun effects, +4 bonus vs. channeled energy
Defensive Abilities channel resistance +4, constructed, uncanny dodge; DR 5/slashing; Immune emotion, fear, undead traits
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 agile shortsword +12/+7 (1d6+4) and
. . slam +7 (1d6+1)
Special Attacks ki attack speed, nanite surge, sneak attack +5d6
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th; concentration +14)
. . —vanishing trick
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 20, Con —, Int 15, Wis 12, Cha 14
Base Atk +7; CMB +8 (+10 dirty trick, +12 disarm); CMD 24 (26 vs. dirty trick, 26 vs. disarm)
Feats Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Greater Disarm, Improved Dirty Trick, Improved Disarm, Toughness, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +20, Appraise +17, Bluff +15, Disable Device +20, Disguise +3, Perception +18, Profession (sailor) +16, Spellcraft +17, Swim +14, Use Magic Device +15; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, ki jump (running start), no trace
Languages Common, Necril, Tien
SQ ki movement, ki pool, ki stealth, pirate tricks (classic duelist, hand stab, storm sailor), poison use
Other Gear +1 leather armor, +1 agile shortsword
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Special Abilities
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Channel Resistance +4 +4 bonus to save vs. Channel Energy.
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Reflexes (6 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Constructed (Ex) Counts as both humanoids and constructs for effects that target type.
Damage Reduction (5/slashing) You have Damage Reduction against all except Slashing attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Greater Disarm When disarming a foe, their weapon lands 15 ft away in a random direction.
Hand Stab (Ex) +2 to disarm Sneak Attack victims.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Emotion (Ex) You are immune to all emotion effects.
Immunity to Exhausted You are immune to the exhausted condition.
Immunity to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Improved Dirty Trick You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when performing a dirty trick.
Improved Disarm You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when disarming.
Ki Attack Speed (Su) By spending 1 point from her ki pool, a ninja can make one additional attack at her highest attack bonus, but she can do so only when making a full attack.
Ki Jump (Running Start) (Su) Jumping is always counted as being at a running start.
Ki Movement A Ninja can spend 1 point to increase her speed by 20 feet for 1 round.
Ki Pool (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Charisma modifier.
Ki Stealth A ninja can spend 1 point from her ki pool to give herself a +4 insight bonus on Stealth skill checks for 1 round.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Nanite Surge +15 (1/day) (Ex) Bonus to any one d20 roll. Glow like a torch for 1 round when used.
No Trace +1 (Ex) Survival DCs to track you are at +1, gain +1 to Stealth when you are stationary and not acting.
Poison Use You do not risk poisoning yourself accidentally while poisoning a weapon.
Sneak Attack +5d6 +5d6 damage if you flank your target or your target is flat-footed.
Storm Sailor (Ex) Reduce storm category for sailing & Navigation
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) Retain Dex bonus to AC when flat-footed.
Undead Traits Undead have many immunities and use Cha in place of a Con for all effects.
Vanishing Trick (Su) As a swift action, the ninja can disappear for 1 round per level. This ability functions as invisibility. Using this ability uses up 1 ki point.
Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
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I feel like the basic gist of this thread went right past a lot of you all
There...there are people who don't like Golarion?!
*raises hand*
I feel like the basic gist of this thread went right past a lot of you all
Some of us prefer taking a positive view of things, rather than just whine .
Paladins.
I love seeing players get creative when portraying them.
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hey william, see my original post
better yet, read the first post, then see my previous post
hey william, see my original post
better yet, read the first post, then see my previous post
I'm sorry, I'm not properly paying attention today it seems...
*raises hand*
There...there are people who don't like Golarion?!I was mostly kidding. :)
But seriously, why not? I'm curious.
While not as bad as a lot of settings, it's still pretty generic.
I don't care for settings with extant, meddling gods.I don't care for settings where alignment is a huge honking thing.
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*raises hand*
There...there are people who don't like Golarion?!I was mostly kidding. :)
But seriously, why not? I'm curious.
While not as bad as a lot of settings, it's still pretty generic.
I don't care for settings with extant, meddling gods.
I don't care for settings where alignment is a huge honking thing.
Yeah, okay, I can see that. I'm not sure I agree (in fact, I'd argue the Golarion gods meddle very rarely), but I get where you're coming from.
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Gnomes.
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Maybe if we stuck with the OP rather than get into yet another whine session about your personal pet peeves?
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I love Haunts, I think its absolutely the best mechanic for things somewhere between traps and monsters, especially since I love horror gaming and adventure design. And I know if you look at the Carrion Crown fora and look at any haunts threads - the vitriol is so heavy with hate of haunts. It seems not to be a thing loved by many players. I don't care, Haunts are the best thing since apple pie, seriously.
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Maybe if we stuck with the OP rather than get into yet another whine session about your personal pet peeves?
Yes, I agree with Dr. Deth.
And yeah, Haunts look like a lot of fun. Of course, I love creepy games that aren't so combat based, and I love letting the DM really get into painting the world and describing stuff. If he's good at it, anyway. If he sucks, then just throw Orcs at us, dude.
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I like DMing. I love telling a story that the players can get into and being the facilitator of fun. It's like being the guy who hosts the best parties in college, but you don't have to spend hours cleaning the beer bottles and pizza stains off your carpet the next morning. (I don't always like the baggage that often comes with it - managing a group of people who become friends and often having to be the bearer of bad news, etc., but I'm adapted to handle it than most, so I do.)
And house rules. I like those a lot! I don't necessarily like every house rule I come across, but I like the concept of house rules - making the game your/your group's own.
Oh! And this. They should cost something (to keep them from being necessary and universal), but they should totally be available.Dex to damage options.
I know some people decry Dervish Dance and the Agile enchant as terrible, but I like them and would prefer that there were more. Doing damage by accurately hitting weak points, rather than brute force, is a trope I enjoy.
Of course, I agree. I think a feat is sufficient.
Archetypes rather than PrCs.
I completely agree. I'd much rather play my concept from one instead of waiting until after six.
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I like random spell mishaps. Not just humorous ones, but ones that match the intended tone of the scene (such as horror, high adventure, pulp action, etc).
I like magic that doesn't behave like a set of empirical scientific rules, but is instead a mysterious, barely-controlled, and chimerical thing, to be mastered only by the brave, clever and slightly foolhardy.
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Design Manager
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Psionics
Synthesist Summoners
Kind of on that note:
I love the community of 3rd party publishers surrounding Pathfinder and some of the great stuff they do, and I love that Paizo is so supportive and inclusive of them.
Back in 3.5 I was incredibly leery of 3pp materials but the stuff done for PF is just incredible. I literally was introduced to Pathfinder via the 3pp company Alluria and their Cerulean Seas setting, which was absolutely amazing. Since then I've grown to love Legendary Games, Dreamscarred, Abandoned Arts, Rite Publishing, and others as well.
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Design Manager
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Psionics
Synthesist Summoners
Kind of on that note:
I love the community of 3rd party publishers surrounding Pathfinder and some of the great stuff they do, and I love that Paizo is so supportive and inclusive of them.
Back in 3.5 I was incredibly leery of 3pp materials but the stuff done for PF is just incredible. I literally was introduced to Pathfinder via the 3pp company Alluria and their Cerulean Seas setting, which was absolutely amazing. Since then I've grown to love Legendary Games, Dreamscarred, Abandoned Arts, Rite Publishing, and others as well.
I should probably check out Cerulean Seas, then? Cool, I'll put that on the List of Campaign Settings I Need to Get Around to Looking At:)
Cerulean Seas is amazing. It has races and rules for extended aquatic campaigns, and Alluria has art that is at least as good as, and sometimes better than, Paizo's art. They've also got some great expansions (Waves of Thought, Azure Ice, and their very own Bestiary of aquatic monsters).
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I love terrain and travelling rules, and I love the encumbrance rules.
-Nearyn