The Ukraine thingy


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Irontruth wrote:
Putin is some how "saving" people.

Lose the quotation marks.

Also,who cares about Dark One?
There are substantial numbers of private initiatives in Russia that do pretty much the same thing,minus publicity.

Irontruth wrote:
and fanatical devotion to the Pope.

While russians have stupid amounts of chief weapons,this,sadly,is not one of them.Eastern Ortodoxy and all:)


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
and fanatical devotion to the Pope.
While russians have stupid amounts of chief weapons,this,sadly,is not one of them.Eastern Ortodoxy and all:)

You are a gamer and didn't get the classic Monty Python quote? There are uncontacted tribes in the Amazon who know that one.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Russians are very adept in misdirection,and their chief weapons are fear and surprise.And misdirection.

Certainly military deception was a strong point of the Soviet military, and I suspect the Russians have kept up the tradition.

I don't know that it could be said that they were/are better at it than the West, but they certainly were good at it.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:


Irontruth wrote:
and fanatical devotion to the Pope.
While russians have stupid amounts of chief weapons,this,sadly,is not one of them.Eastern Ortodoxy and all:)

Since you don't seem to be familiar.


Irontruth wrote:
See, I'm with you on pointing out the evil things that the US does around the world. But don't pretend that Putin is some how "saving" people. That just makes you sound naive at best.

I do think it's correct to say that Russia's annexation of Crimea likely has saved many Crimeans from various horrible crimes commited by the fascist junta. So in that way I do think it's correct to say that Putin has been "saving" people.

However, it should of course come with a note on how there's nothing altruistic in it - Russia saving crimeans are for completely selfish reasons.


Gaberlunzie wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
See, I'm with you on pointing out the evil things that the US does around the world. But don't pretend that Putin is some how "saving" people. That just makes you sound naive at best.

I do think it's correct to say that Russia's annexation of Crimea likely has saved many Crimeans from various horrible crimes commited by the fascist junta. So in that way I do think it's correct to say that Putin has been "saving" people.

However, it should of course come with a note on how there's nothing altruistic in it - Russia saving crimeans are for completely selfish reasons.

Crimean Tartars might disagree with you.

Public gatherings of Tartars have been banned. Staff of community centers are being summoned to courts for having taught first aid to political activists. Community leaders are being kicked out of the country. There have been some disappearances, though they're small in scale so far.


Gallo wrote:
You didn't get the classic Monty Python quote?

In case you didn't noticed,I USED IT!

And then pulled this,with debatable success.
Irontruth wrote:


Crimean Tartars might disagree with you.

Except they will not.You see,these clowns posing as their leaders couldn't,for 23 years,secure even some basic things.

First thing Crazy Ivans do was to instate Crimean Tatar language is one of three state languages.Second,Crimean tatars get substantial number of positions in local parliament.And then there were mad dollarz...
All this,of course,undermined authority of FORMER leaders.
And then,some of them insisted that such thing as Kurultai exist despite never being registered as a political party.
Basically,what i'm trying to say,is that Tatar "Leaders"basically usurped right to speak for Tatar people for that last god knows how many years.
Russian reunification crushed that status quo,so now there are new leaders.More or less elected.
Irontruth wrote:


Public gatherings of Tartars have been banned.

Not again...

No they were not.We have something that called constitution here.
You can't actually ban public gathering.But organizers must contact local authorities and work with them on time and place.
Which,of course,wasn't done.
This is not Wild Fields or some madness like that,this is Russia.


Irontruth wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
Some have criticized Russia, claiming they have regional aims beyond their own borders. To that, to the west, I say: f+*+ you. Yes, f#$+ you for daring to have the gall to criticize Russia for having a foreign policy that protects them in their own region of the globe. F$+@ you for not once raising questions regarding Washington's global aims - policies and actions designed to keep a very few rich and everyone else broken, divided, exploited. Russia could have rolled over the Ukrainian border a dozen times already, declared a no-fly zone, annihilated the already-weak Ukrainian and neo-nazi forces attacking the ethnic Russian populations - that they haven't is a sign that Putin is more statesman than warmonger. I understand that this is hard for Americans who like to kick ass and kill sand-ni@@ers and commies to get.
See, I'm with you on pointing out the evil things that the US does around the world. But don't pretend that Putin is some how "saving" people. That just makes you sound naive at best.

Meh. Who cares how you think it makes me sound. Putin has acted as peacemaker far more often than a certain President promising change has done. He negotiated an agreement with Syria regarding their chemical arms last year that totally deflated Obama's desire to strike at them. He's helped Iran get back to the bargaining table re: their peaceful nuclear energy program, stymieing America's desire for war. He's resisted the temptation to use military force in Ukraine. He's no angel, but the m!~*!$$%&#!@ is a statesman and a strategist.


JohnLocke wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
Some have criticized Russia, claiming they have regional aims beyond their own borders. To that, to the west, I say: f+*+ you. Yes, f#$+ you for daring to have the gall to criticize Russia for having a foreign policy that protects them in their own region of the globe. F$+@ you for not once raising questions regarding Washington's global aims - policies and actions designed to keep a very few rich and everyone else broken, divided, exploited. Russia could have rolled over the Ukrainian border a dozen times already, declared a no-fly zone, annihilated the already-weak Ukrainian and neo-nazi forces attacking the ethnic Russian populations - that they haven't is a sign that Putin is more statesman than warmonger. I understand that this is hard for Americans who like to kick ass and kill sand-ni@@ers and commies to get.
See, I'm with you on pointing out the evil things that the US does around the world. But don't pretend that Putin is some how "saving" people. That just makes you sound naive at best.
Meh. Who cares how you think it makes me sound. Putin has acted as peacemaker far more often than a certain President promising change has done. He negotiated an agreement with Syria regarding their chemical arms last year that totally deflated Obama's desire to strike at them. He's helped Iran get back to the bargaining table re: their peaceful nuclear energy program, stymieing America's desire for war. He's resisted the temptation to use military force in Ukraine. He's no angel, but the m$##*+~&@*#~ is a statesman and a strategist.

I love this idea that Obama has been slavering for war with Syria and Iran and practically everywhere else there's been any trouble. For someone so determined for war, he's done a horrible job of starting them. I suppose you can argue that he was just looking for an excuse to attack Syria and Putin managed to stop him, but it's just as easy to read it as the threat of American military intervention achieving his stated goals without actually having to attack.

Similarly with Iran, except the chances of Obama launching a war there without some serious provocation were never significant. Honestly, despite McCain's rhetoric, I don't think even a Republican adminstration was very likely to attack Iran.

That said, I still think America relies far too heavily on military force and the threat of it and also too much on military aid propping up some pretty ugly regimes. But this fantasy that somehow Putin is a brilliant statesman, saving the world from the war-mongering imperialist US is nonsense.


thejeff wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
Some have criticized Russia, claiming they have regional aims beyond their own borders. To that, to the west, I say: f+*+ you. Yes, f#$+ you for daring to have the gall to criticize Russia for having a foreign policy that protects them in their own region of the globe. F$+@ you for not once raising questions regarding Washington's global aims - policies and actions designed to keep a very few rich and everyone else broken, divided, exploited. Russia could have rolled over the Ukrainian border a dozen times already, declared a no-fly zone, annihilated the already-weak Ukrainian and neo-nazi forces attacking the ethnic Russian populations - that they haven't is a sign that Putin is more statesman than warmonger. I understand that this is hard for Americans who like to kick ass and kill sand-ni@@ers and commies to get.
See, I'm with you on pointing out the evil things that the US does around the world. But don't pretend that Putin is some how "saving" people. That just makes you sound naive at best.
Meh. Who cares how you think it makes me sound. Putin has acted as peacemaker far more often than a certain President promising change has done. He negotiated an agreement with Syria regarding their chemical arms last year that totally deflated Obama's desire to strike at them. He's helped Iran get back to the bargaining table re: their peaceful nuclear energy program, stymieing America's desire for war. He's resisted the temptation to use military force in Ukraine. He's no angel, but the m$##*+~&@*#~ is a statesman and a strategist.
I love this idea that Obama has been slavering for war with Syria and Iran and practically everywhere else there's been any trouble. For someone so determined for war, he's done a horrible job of starting them. I suppose you can argue that he was just looking for an excuse to attack Syria and Putin managed to stop him, but it's just as easy to read it as the threat of American military...

Are you disagreeing that the U.S. is imperialist? Or that Putin is a statesman? Or both? About Putin - whatever, one can disagree all one likes, I would just ask how many wars he has started in his tenure, and how many the U.S. government (under whatever administration) has begun.

As for the U.S. not being imperialist - give me a break. Of course they are. They demand control over everything they touch, and have for a very long time. How many military bases does the U.S. have around the world? They are an empire, and they're struggling to maintain control.


thejeff wrote:
Putin is a brilliant statesman, saving the world from the war-mongering imperialist US

Oh,but it is mostly true.Except he is not doing it for free,and only some parts of the world.

Do you care about intentions or results?


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Putin is a brilliant statesman, saving the world from the war-mongering imperialist US

Oh,but it is mostly true.Except he is not doing it for free,and only some parts of the world.

Do you care about intentions or results?

I think it's more like Obama really had no desire to get into a war in/with either Syria or Iran, so I'm not prepared to give Putin much credit for stopping him.


thejeff wrote:
I'm not prepared to give Putin much credit for stopping him.

Neither am i,but some credit is due.And,speaking of credit,Syria buys quite a lot of weapons lately.

In other news:Convoy 2:Electric Boogaloo.
First convoy more or less amounted to 1kg each of buckwheat,rice and sugar
and three cans of canned meat per person(this is minimum that you can receive.Probably you can get more in some circumstances).
So,basically,you need to send about one such convoy per week.


thejeff wrote:
Vlad Koroboff wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Putin is a brilliant statesman, saving the world from the war-mongering imperialist US

Oh,but it is mostly true.Except he is not doing it for free,and only some parts of the world.

Do you care about intentions or results?
I think it's more like Obama really had no desire to get into a war in/with either Syria or Iran, so I'm not prepared to give Putin much credit for stopping him.

Hmmm.

Hmm.

Interesting.

Never too early for revisionist history re: Obama's plans for Syria, is it, Jeff?

I'm not going to bother googling for articles re: Obama's sabre-rattling at Iran; if you don't acknowledge it, that's your problem.


JohnLocke wrote:


Never too early for revisionist history re: Obama's plans for Syria, is it, Jeff?

Didn't you heard?

He RESISTED ordering US actions in Syria.Even after obviously staged attack that he,using his superpower "Jumping to conclusions",blamed on government.
So,yes,it's never too early.

I'd like to add that while he RESISTED ordering US military actions,US
supplies syrian rebels with arms and ammunition at the very least.
For FREE!
Such a nice guys...


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:


Never too early for revisionist history re: Obama's plans for Syria, is it, Jeff?

Didn't you heard?

He RESISTED ordering US actions in Syria.Even after obviously staged attack that he,using his superpower "Jumping to conclusions",blamed on government.
So,yes,it's never too early.

I'd like to add that while he RESISTED ordering US military actions,US
supplies syrian rebels with arms and ammunition at the very least.
For FREE!
Such a nice guys...

Yes, and those arms given to the "Syrian rebels" are now supplying ISIL, the new Islamist bogeyman. Good going, Uncle Sam!


DM Locke wrote:

Yes, and those arms given to the "Syrian rebels" are now supplying ISIL, the new Islamist bogeyman. Good going, Uncle Sam!

Irony is not lost on me.

It's like training Al-Qaeda for Afghanistan war(80s one) and then discover that somehow big satan is actually US.
Who knew?


You know, I have to believe that if the good people in the US (the vast majority) really knew how full their government was of scum and villains, of corporate pawns, of agents for foreign governments, they'd rise up and sack the whole lot of them. But the US government is doing everything it can to stomp on the average person, leaving them ignorant, weak, without rights. Look at how much force was brought to bear in Ferguson; that's only a taste of what the corporatist forces in the US have in store for the populace.

They need to get their own house in order. So does every nation in the world infested by corporatist greed and corruption, to be fair.


JohnLocke wrote:
they'd rise up and sack the whole lot of them.
JohnLocke wrote:
Look at how much force was brought to bear in Ferguson; that's only a taste of what the corporatist forces in the US have in store for the populace.

And this is why first quote is literally impossible.


JohnLocke wrote:
So does every nation in the world infested by corporatist greed and corruption, to be fair.

So, nearly everyone, then?


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Coriat wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
So does every nation in the world infested by corporatist greed and corruption, to be fair.
So, nearly everyone, then?

As a disclaimer, I must admit that I've a desire to see the world rise up in a great communist revolution, washing away all of the current systems that our beloved Imperialist forces hold so dear.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
they'd rise up and sack the whole lot of them.
JohnLocke wrote:
Look at how much force was brought to bear in Ferguson; that's only a taste of what the corporatist forces in the US have in store for the populace.

And this is why first quote is literally impossible.

It's not an impossibility, Vlad. It seems unlikely, given what we saw. But very few things are impossible. The US government has done its best, as all failing regimes do, of trying to reserve to themselves all the means of violence. But the populace isn't entirely unarmed and demoralized, not yet.


JohnLocke wrote:
the populace isn't

Angry enough.

You see,this scenario is impossible in Russia because things were really sucky in early 90s.I kid you not,by PPP pirated NES cartrige costed around three hundred dollarz!
This is crazy!
So,now,things are more or less OK.But i do not know how quality of life must drop to inspire a revolution.
US,OTOH,didn't have dark times in recent history.Populace is well-fed,MSM are controlled by the government.
Yes,people are slowly losing their freedoms,but SLOWLY.
I'm pretty sure,besides,that Fergusson got nothing on LA riots in...err...early 90s?


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
the populace isn't

Angry enough.

You see,this scenario is impossible in Russia because things were really sucky in early 90s.I kid you not,by PPP pirated NES cartrige costed around three hundred dollarz!
This is crazy!
So,now,things are more or less OK.But i do not know how quality of life must drop to inspire a revolution.
US,OTOH,didn't have dark times in recent history.Populace is well-fed,MSM are controlled by the government.
Yes,people are slowly losing their freedoms,but SLOWLY.
I'm pretty sure,besides,that Fergusson got nothing on LA riots in...err...early 90s?

I agree, Vlad, anger may be what eventually motivates an mass uprising. But the media and government do a great job dividing the populace. For example, it was a young black man who was shot by police in Ferguson, so all of a sudden it's a "black riot" and a "black problem". The media shows a few looters and other criminals in with the vast assembly of peaceful protestors and white america switches the TV off, chuckling to themselves about how out of control blacks are. But they don't see the doom hanging over their very own heads. By failing to stand by their black brothers, their latino brothers, white America is dooming itself, ensuring that the means by which they will be brought to heel will be well-practiced and waiting for them once they do truly wake up from their torpor.

I must admit that I didn't know things were so dire, in those years, for Russia.


Quite an interesting post,if you filter the trash.
One of the counterattack's targets is apparently Mariupol.I have reports that loyalist forces stationed there are in tactical retreat.
And by tactical retreat i mean run like hell,causing numerous traffic jams.
But then,direct attack on the city right now would be pretty stupid.Not while there are few brigades encircled,but not yet surrendered.
Oh well.We have a saying here that roughly translates to "frightened condition gives you advantage on perception checks,up to the point where you start to see things that are not really there".

JohnLocke wrote:
=For example, it was a young black man who was shot by police in Ferguson, so all of a sudden it's a "black riot" and a "black problem". =

I might not be commie myself,but it doesn't mean that i don't understand how government through state-controlled media divides classes.

Division by race is like the oldest trick in the book.
But then,i AM racist...Obviously not all races are equal,they have different attribute modifiers.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:

We have a saying here that roughly translates to "frightened condition gives you advantage on perception checks,up to the point where you start to see things that are not really there".

JohnLocke wrote:
=For example, it was a young black man who was shot by police in Ferguson, so all of a sudden it's a "black riot" and a "black problem". =

I might not be commie myself,but it doesn't mean that i don't understand how government through state-controlled media divides classes.

Division by race is like the oldest trick in the book.
But then,i AM racist...Obviously not all races are equal,they have different attribute modifiers.

LOL. Two roleplaying jokes in short order. Well done, sir!


Tactical retreat, for the Ukrainian forces, means surrender, get paraded in front of a jeering crowd whilst street cleaners wash up after you :-)

Seriously, though, that was contrary to the Geneva conventions, which we all know the Nazi junta and their American masters hold dear to their hearts.


JohnLocke wrote:
that was contrary to the Geneva conventions

Which neither DPR nor LPR never signed.

Hell,they are not even recognized as nations.Except by South Ossetia.
Which is pretty good place.They have best curaga(which is actually not a healing spell but dried halves of apricot)in the world!Seriously,Iranian or Turkish is not even close!


In other news,Ukrainian President dissolved parliament.
Because,you see,and i will not quote fox news(bunch of liars) but rather ukrainian(bunch of liars),:
"Most of present members voted for dictatorship laws that took the lives of Heaven's Hundred and must be criminally persecuted for that.
Many of them are sponsors and accomplices of Rebel Alliance separatists".
"

I love democracy at works.

If it looks like things are happening too fast,it's because they are.

P.S.
Shall i explain who Heaven's Hundred are?


JohnLocke wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
Some have criticized Russia, claiming they have regional aims beyond their own borders. To that, to the west, I say: f+*+ you. Yes, f#$+ you for daring to have the gall to criticize Russia for having a foreign policy that protects them in their own region of the globe. F$+@ you for not once raising questions regarding Washington's global aims - policies and actions designed to keep a very few rich and everyone else broken, divided, exploited. Russia could have rolled over the Ukrainian border a dozen times already, declared a no-fly zone, annihilated the already-weak Ukrainian and neo-nazi forces attacking the ethnic Russian populations - that they haven't is a sign that Putin is more statesman than warmonger. I understand that this is hard for Americans who like to kick ass and kill sand-ni@@ers and commies to get.
See, I'm with you on pointing out the evil things that the US does around the world. But don't pretend that Putin is some how "saving" people. That just makes you sound naive at best.
Meh. Who cares how you think it makes me sound. Putin has acted as peacemaker far more often than a certain President promising change has done. He negotiated an agreement with Syria regarding their chemical arms last year that totally deflated Obama's desire to strike at them. He's helped Iran get back to the bargaining table re: their peaceful nuclear energy program, stymieing America's desire for war. He's resisted the temptation to use military force in Ukraine. He's no angel, but the m!%~@$#$~*!$ is a statesman and a strategist.

He also negotiated a rest in peace agreement with 100,000 to 200,000 Chechen civilians.


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Irontruth wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
Some have criticized Russia, claiming they have regional aims beyond their own borders. To that, to the west, I say: f+*+ you. Yes, f#$+ you for daring to have the gall to criticize Russia for having a foreign policy that protects them in their own region of the globe. F$+@ you for not once raising questions regarding Washington's global aims - policies and actions designed to keep a very few rich and everyone else broken, divided, exploited. Russia could have rolled over the Ukrainian border a dozen times already, declared a no-fly zone, annihilated the already-weak Ukrainian and neo-nazi forces attacking the ethnic Russian populations - that they haven't is a sign that Putin is more statesman than warmonger. I understand that this is hard for Americans who like to kick ass and kill sand-ni@@ers and commies to get.
See, I'm with you on pointing out the evil things that the US does around the world. But don't pretend that Putin is some how "saving" people. That just makes you sound naive at best.
Meh. Who cares how you think it makes me sound. Putin has acted as peacemaker far more often than a certain President promising change has done. He negotiated an agreement with Syria regarding their chemical arms last year that totally deflated Obama's desire to strike at them. He's helped Iran get back to the bargaining table re: their peaceful nuclear energy program, stymieing America's desire for war. He's resisted the temptation to use military force in Ukraine. He's no angel, but the m!%~@$#$~*!$ is a statesman and a strategist.
He also negotiated a rest in peace agreement with 100,000 to 200,000 Chechen civilians.

See? He brings peace.


Irontruth wrote:


He also negotiated a rest in peace agreement with 100,000 to 200,000 Chechen civilians.

Even maximum numbers from biased as hell Wiki are less

What's more,the Dark One secured Chechen Republic as PEACEFUL province.
Who cares about tens of thousands when now,ten years later,one and a half million can live in peace and enjoying russian welfare?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
JohnLocke wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
Some have criticized Russia, claiming they have regional aims beyond their own borders. To that, to the west, I say: f+*+ you. Yes, f#$+ you for daring to have the gall to criticize Russia for having a foreign policy that protects them in their own region of the globe. F$+@ you for not once raising questions regarding Washington's global aims - policies and actions designed to keep a very few rich and everyone else broken, divided, exploited. Russia could have rolled over the Ukrainian border a dozen times already, declared a no-fly zone, annihilated the already-weak Ukrainian and neo-nazi forces attacking the ethnic Russian populations - that they haven't is a sign that Putin is more statesman than warmonger. I understand that this is hard for Americans who like to kick ass and kill sand-ni@@ers and commies to get.
See, I'm with you on pointing out the evil things that the US does around the world. But don't pretend that Putin is some how "saving" people. That just makes you sound naive at best.
Meh. Who cares how you think it makes me sound. Putin has acted as peacemaker far more often than a certain President promising change has done. He negotiated an agreement with Syria regarding their chemical arms last year that totally deflated Obama's desire to strike at them. He's helped Iran get back to the bargaining table re: their peaceful nuclear energy program, stymieing America's desire for war. He's resisted the temptation to use military force in Ukraine. He's no angel, but the m%*@$&@&%&&! is a statesman and a strategist.

He provoked the Ukraine situation. He's gladly taking Crimea into his control. Someone looking for peace would have diffused the situation and said "no".

He's prolonged the Syrian situation by supporting the Assad regime.

I hear Chechnya had some problems a few years ago.

I hear Georgia has had some problems too.

Putin is an imperialist. I'm sorry you can't see that. He is not your communist savior.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Irontruth wrote:


He also negotiated a rest in peace agreement with 100,000 to 200,000 Chechen civilians.

Even maximum numbers from biased as hell Wiki are less

What's more,the Dark One secured Chechen Republic as PEACEFUL province.
Who cares about tens of thousands when now,ten years later,one and a half million can live in peace and enjoying russian welfare?

There are a lot of estimates to look at.

200,000 is definitely on the high side and probably not correct, but 100,000 is quite reasonable estimate and it's probably higher than that.

Of course, Chechnya only has a population of 1.2 million. 100,000 dead is nearly 10% of the population which is quite significant for an armed conflict.


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Irontruth wrote:


He provoked the Ukraine situation. He's gladly taking Crimea into his control. Someone looking for peace would have diffused the situation and said "no".

Yes.Let's say no to two million ethnic russians.I must stress again,it's not early 90s,when this were not only possible,but actually happened.

Irontruth wrote:


He's prolonged the Syrian situation by supporting the Assad regime.

I refer you to Libya to see what happens when "regime"gets toppled.

Spoilers:
People die,A LOT,country drops to the stone age that it will take decades to recover,at least.
Compare to near-socialist utopia a few years back.
Syria is no utopia,it will literally become hell on earth,which will produce more militants.
Russia supports Syria for one very simple reason.It's not that we're next,but we are pretty close in line.

Irontruth wrote:


I hear Georgia has had some problems too.

Yes.It decided that it actually can fire MLRS in anger on civilian city in

which russian peacekeepers were stationed.
If russians weren't so stupidly humane,now there would be no Georgia except in name only.Just look what happened to Iraq.
But russians understand that it's not the fault of georgian people,just one little dictator.
Irontruth wrote:


Putin is an imperialist

Well,OBVIOUSLY!Because you are either that or commie.

But he is clearly lesser evil.
He does not destroys countries for fun and profit.

Irontruth wrote:
100,000 dead is nearly 10% of the population which is quite significant for an armed conflict.

Even this is WAY higher than official numbers(and there was census there),and,what's more important,there were TWO chechen wars and period of lawlessness before them.

Dark One was present only during second war.He didn't even started it.
But by whatever religion is more popular there he finished it,and SO hard that chechen republic experienced post-conflict baby-boom as early as 2003.
Probably his kids.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Irontruth wrote:


Putin is an imperialist
Well,OBVIOUSLY!Because you are either that or commie.

Apparently it's called something other than "imperialist" when commies do it. Cause I suspect it looks much the same to the pawns.

And there are other options. Is Sweden Imperialist? Just to pick a random example.


thejeff wrote:
Is Sweden Imperialist? Just to pick a random example.

They are colony,duh.

We speak commie language here,remember?


"He also negotiated a rest in peace agreement with 100,000 to 200,000 Chechen civilians."

Yes, let's compare body counts between Russia and the USA since, let's say, Putin came to power. I'm sure the US will come out looking like innocent pacifists, right? Body counts are so important - it's how Americans know they won in Vietnam, for example! And we'll not even mention the death toll in Iraq or Afghanistan cuz, you know, those were such clean, bloodless victories for the american military machine!


JohnLocke wrote:
it's how Americans know they won in Vietnam

Wait,WHAT?!

The only winners of war in Vietnam were a)people of said Vietnam and b)
USA's military manufacturers.

Everyone else lost.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
it's how Americans know they won in Vietnam

Wait,WHAT?!

The only winners of war in Vietnam were a)people of said Vietnam and b)
USA's military manufacturers.
Everyone else lost.

Sarcasm, my friend, and a dose of reality for neocon a-holes.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-sponsored-genocide-against-iraq-1990-2012-k illed-3-3-million-including-750000-children/5314461

Jesus freaking Christ. I know this begins prior to Putin's timeline, but, my God. I had no idea it was so horrible. I was looking for body count info since our american friends seem to like it so much, but this kind of takes me out of the mood for further argument right now.


JohnLocke wrote:

"He also negotiated a rest in peace agreement with 100,000 to 200,000 Chechen civilians."

Yes, let's compare body counts between Russia and the USA since, let's say, Putin came to power. I'm sure the US will come out looking like innocent pacifists, right? Body counts are so important - it's how Americans know they won in Vietnam, for example! And we'll not even mention the death toll in Iraq or Afghanistan cuz, you know, those were such clean, bloodless victories for the american military machine!

I get it, you aren't interested in talking TO people, you only want to talk AT them. I know this, because you aren't actually reading what I write. You're only reading what you WANT me to have written.

Have fun.


JohnLocke wrote:
Vlad Koroboff wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
it's how Americans know they won in Vietnam

Wait,WHAT?!

The only winners of war in Vietnam were a)people of said Vietnam and b)
USA's military manufacturers.
Everyone else lost.
Sarcasm, my friend, and a dose of reality for neocon a-holes.

So are you suggesting those of us who disagree with you are neo-cons?


Who cares about neocons?I don't even know what they are!
Or if they really exist...
What's interesting about that particular story is that russian ministry of defence actually acknowledges....that ukrainians captured squad of border guards.And this is first time they confirm,even partially,Ukrainian allegations.
Problem,is,of course,that these are border guards.


Irontruth wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:

"He also negotiated a rest in peace agreement with 100,000 to 200,000 Chechen civilians."

Yes, let's compare body counts between Russia and the USA since, let's say, Putin came to power. I'm sure the US will come out looking like innocent pacifists, right? Body counts are so important - it's how Americans know they won in Vietnam, for example! And we'll not even mention the death toll in Iraq or Afghanistan cuz, you know, those were such clean, bloodless victories for the american military machine!

I get it, you aren't interested in talking TO people, you only want to talk AT them. I know this, because you aren't actually reading what I write. You're only reading what you WANT me to have written.

Have fun.

Right back at you. You brought up body count totals as a measure of perfidy. I simply used your own standard of argument.

Have a pleasant day.


JohnLocke wrote:
You brought up body count totals as a measure of perfidy.

Problem is,of course,that this is stupid.

Checnen Republic is peaceful place,it's capital was rebuilt so well it can be used as a capital for RF if need arises,it experiences baby-boom like no place in the country(and it's a BIG country),while Iraq...
Not only bodycount is at least order of magnitude higher,but we all know what happens there right now.

But,there are good in all things.Crazy Ivans on the wake of this new invasion sold CRRRRAZY amount of military stuff to Iraq,at,i suspect,vasty inflated prices.
Helicopters,bombers,rocket artillery....these thing are not cheap even when you are not buying them at need-them-right-this-second price.


Gallo wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
Vlad Koroboff wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
it's how Americans know they won in Vietnam

Wait,WHAT?!

The only winners of war in Vietnam were a)people of said Vietnam and b)
USA's military manufacturers.
Everyone else lost.
Sarcasm, my friend, and a dose of reality for neocon a-holes.
So are you suggesting those of us who disagree with you are neo-cons?

Nope. But I am impressed that you found neocon to be more offensive than a-hole!


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
JohnLocke wrote:
You brought up body count totals as a measure of perfidy.

Problem is,of course,that this is stupid.

Checnen Republic is peaceful place,it's capital was rebuilt so well it can be used as a capital for RF if need arises,it experiences baby-boom like no place in the country(and it's a BIG country),while Iraq...
Not only bodycount is at least order of magnitude higher,but we all know what happens there right now.

But,there are good in all things.Crazy Ivans on the wake of this new invasion sold CRRRRAZY amount of military stuff to Iraq,at,i suspect,vasty inflated prices.
Helicopters,bombers,rocket artillery....these thing are not cheap even when you are not buying them at need-them-right-this-second price.

They'll need that Russian equipment, I suspect. Isis is flush with american weaponry and training from their time as "Syrian opposition".

I understand Russia has sold a wing of su-25s to Iraq, and that Iran is considering returning a bunch of fighters that were flown over in 1991. Given their track record, Isis will have it's own air force in short order.


JohnLocke wrote:


I understand Russia has sold a wing of su-25s to Iraq

By my understanding,it was Belarus at least partially.Well,now they have money to buy better planes:)

Possibly even Su-34.
Also,didn't ISIL captured some planes already?


JohnLocke wrote:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-sponsored-genocide-against-iraq-1990-2012-k illed-3-3-million-including-750000-children/5314461

Jesus freaking Christ. I know this begins prior to Putin's timeline, but, my God. I had no idea it was so horrible. I was looking for body count info since our american friends seem to like it so much, but this kind of takes me out of the mood for further argument right now.

I saw a documentary named X-Files showing how the US government is manipulating us, hiding the truth and even making experiments with alien genes to create hybridization on humans. Not surprisingly the NSA canceled the documentary and tried to convince people it was a serial!!!

So, be careful guys when checking a website it might be a fake one created by the CIA, NSA, FBI, DEA or even the FDA!!!

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