The Ukraine thingy


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Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Gaberlunzie wrote:
No. Just... No.
Well,that's a mature argument.

Maybe not an argument but possibly an invitation...


Angstspawn wrote:


Maybe not an argument but possibly an invitation...

Declined,in that case.The only reason why Stalin...or Lenin are brought up in this topic is because they successfully ran one of the most important revolutions in human history.

i'm not saying that EVERYTHING they did was right,but the works they leave after them are something to be studied.
But of course rebels know better:)
Spoiler:
And this is why we have decisive battle in Donetsk and not in Kiev


Vlad Koroboff wrote:


I'll include full quote for you^^
Angstspawn wrote:
Stalin was using the same approach (supporting fake autonomists movements) to spread his dictature

You see?Your entire post is irrelevant except maybe playing captain Obvious,because no-one said anything about dictatorship of proletariat in present RF.That would be stupid.

Ah, I missed that. The point still stands though: There was no dictatorship of the proletariat under Stalin. The proletariat didn't dictate anything, it was a state capitalist dictatorship of the coordinator class.

The proletariat and their attempt to organize got squashed under Stalin.

Quote:


Well,that's a mature argument.

It's the appropriate response, just like if someone said that "well at least Reagan was the first human on Jupiter".


Gaberlunzie wrote:


The proletariat and their attempt to organize got squashed under Stalin.

Yeah,right.How,exactly?We all saw wealthy peasant class die out by it's own stupidity,but that's a different class.

We also saw rise of this little problem...after death of Stalin.We have the saying here in RF"This wasn't existed(also meaning wasn't possible)during Stalin's time".
We still have it,even after the whole cult of personality thingie and twenty years of destalinization.
Gaberlunzie wrote:


It's the appropriate response

You are entitled to your opinion.

I'm not a commie myself,so not obligated in the slightest to even TRY to change it.
I'm pretty sure the only more or less true commie in this thread is Da Goblin,and he follows goblin version of communism.
With him i can at least disagree on something.He understands what i'm saying.


I'm just trying to figure out if I can work some anti-goblin/anti-Semitic angle in the last post, Comrade Koroboff.

Btw, I don't really understand what you're saying most of the time, but mostly because you use so many clips from video games I've never played.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:


Btw, I don't really understand what you're saying most of the time

Note to self:if a goblin can't understand you,you fail at life

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
you use so many clips from video games I've never played.

But you've seen Convoy,right?

It's a classic.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I preferred Le salaire de la peur.


Question is:which analogy is correct?

Spoilers!:
Stay tuned!


Confession: I've never seen Convoy

I'm sorry, I haven't been paying attention to the latest round of fascist-infested Ukrainian army bombing civilian areas and causing thousands (tens of? hundreds of?) ethnic Russians to flee.

If Sexy Putin, who should be overthrown by workers revolution, is sending them humanitarian aid, or even guns, I've got no problem with it. Seems only fair. IIRC, Kiev didn't even begin the offensive against the samostoyatel’nostists until after a visit by the director of the CIA.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

hundreds of?) ethnic Russians

I'm not entirely sure that all of them are ethnic russians,but last number is 730k.And that's not counting Belarus and other countries.

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

samostoyatel’nostists

Actually,separatist is correct term:)


If Russia wins Crimea but looses Ukraine to NATO and the West, is it really a victory??

Otherwise, considering the Russian Revolution as one of the most important revolution in human history is a excessive. I can't deny it had a big (negative) impact on the world, but look at the result: Russian agriculture is a mess, Russian industry is a mess, Russian society is a mess.

The US had their revolution and the country is OK, the British didn't really made a revolution but they found their way and are OK, the Spanish had a major civil war and they're OK, the Germans were crushed and divided after the WWII but now they're OK and, last but not least China got a communist revolution and they're OK.
So, it seems to me the problem of Russia must come from Russians not from anything else. You mess it up guys just because you had a delusion of being much better than you are. You should come down to Earth, anyway you never reached the Moon either!


The Britishiznoids had a revolution in the 1640s and again in the 1680s, although I prefer the former.

I'd think someone who claims to speak for the entire continent of Europe would know that.


Angstspawn wrote:

If Russia wins Crimea but looses Ukraine to NATO and the West, is it really a victory??

First of all,when i said that no-one needs Ukraine,i was being dead serious.I didn't mean only Russia,i mean NO-ONE.It's really,really pricy and mostly worthless.You need to invest stupid amount of mad dollarz in it just to allow it's survival as a nation.Who will foot the bill?

So,basically,this whole situation is already a victory,because nobody expected Crimea,or that near-million refugees.Half a year from now it will be extra five million population,and educated,russian-speaking,hard-working population is the ONLY thing this country really needs.It already has everything else.
Angstspawn wrote:
China got a communist revolution

I'm actually consider it extension of russian's.Or,more accurately,of international revolution of proletariat.

Mao,besides,saw these clowns who were after Stalin for what they really were.
He was the man.

Angstspawn wrote:
Russian agriculture is a mess, Russian industry is a mess, Russian society is a mess.

We have a saying for that "Don't read Soviet newspapers before lunch".

Basically it means that your head is filled with propaganda.
Soviet industry,society and agriculture were at more than acceptable level.At superpower level,no less.
And Russia is now far better than Soviet Union was,because integration into global economy opened substantial amount of doors.Even if country was robbed blind in the early 90s,it was PRETTY LONG TIME AGO.
Also,no freeloaders like Poland,Lithuania,Georgia,and last,but not least,Ukraine(well,western half of it).
Angstspawn wrote:
the problem of Russia

What problem?You see,some persons claiming to be leaders of the free world have a problem WITH Russia,but that's a different thing.


In other news,in a last month there has been a change of leadership in sep's circles
You see one man,but believe me,he's not the first or the second.
Since that Strelkov guy returned from Slavyansk(and i remind you,he went in with a hundred,and withdrawn with four thousand,after holding like half ukrainian army for a month),he systematically cleaned house.
Goblins here asked questions like:"Who is Sexy Putin",but the real questions should be about Strelkov.


I don't recall ever asking "Who is Sexy Putin?"

If I haven't ever asked "Who is Strelkov?" it's because I was already led to believe by other left-wing websites that he was a glorifier of the Whites and an anti-Semite who blamed the problems of Russia on "Jews like Trotsky."

It doesn't matter, though. I don't put preconditions of political correctness on nations exercising their right to self-determination, or, in this case, limited self-rule.

EDIT: Woopsie. I guess it wasn't Strelkov who said that. My apologies for the calumny and slander.

Pro-Russian militias fill the vacuum as Kiev's control in eastern Ukraine slips


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

he was a glorifier of the Whites and an anti-Semite who blamed the problems of Russia on "Jews like Trotsky."

And this is exactly why we can't have nice things.Donbass is a worker's county.Monarchists aren't exactly welcome there.


Well, IIRC, most of the Whites, while probably monarchists in their hearts, were actually fighting to restore capitalist "democracy."


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
The Britishiznoids had a revolution in the 1640s and again in the 1680s, although I prefer the former.

I don't consider it's fully a revolution when the king keeps his crown... and his head! The revolution ends when royal heads roll and all hereditary privileges are canceled. British made half of it; I admit a democratic system is working that way, nonetheless the 360° of the revolution weren't completed.

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
I'd think someone who claims to speak for the entire continent of Europe would know that.

I love when you speak that way...


Angstspawn wrote:
I don't consider it's fully a revolution when the king keeps his crown... and his head! The revolution ends when royal heads roll and all hereditary privileges are canceled. British made half of it; I admit a democratic system is working that way, nonetheless the 360° of the revolution weren't completed.

In the 1640s, Charles I was executed and a republican Commonwealth was set up that quickly became the domain of Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell, who was kinda like the Thermidorian Stalin of his day.

In the 1680s, well, I forget who it was that got kicked off the throne, but absolutist monarchy in the Britishiznoid Isles was done for and replaced by some Dutch royal figures who presided over the Constitutional Monarchy that Perfidious Albion has been to this day.

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
I'd think someone who claims to speak for the entire continent of Europe would know that.
I love when you speak that way...

I forget, did you ever get back to me about the Tuaregs?


Vo Giap, Ambassador of Bachuan wrote:
Angstspawn wrote:

It's easy to convince people using lies Anklebiter!

The northern part of Mali was under the control of foreign terrorists. Yes Anklebiter, people speaking arabian for most of them, destroying centuries old cultural monuments and sentencing people sometimes without judging them. But maybe you'll say they were ethnical minorities...

I've got a research assignment for you. The subject is "Tuaregs". I'll check back in in a couple of days after I've read the new issues of Granma Internacional and Izvestiya.


Who cares about Volkswagen cars?

There are far more interesting things happening!

"The draft law allows authorities to prohibit or restrict television and radio channel retransmission; restrict or terminate media activities, including on the Internet; restrict or prohibit the production or distribution of printed materials; and restrict or terminate telecommunication services and public telecommunications network usage".


There's armored cars, and tanks, and jeeps,
And rigs of ev'ry size.
Yeah, them chicken coops was full'a bears
And choppers filled the skies.

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

The Britishiznoids had a revolution in the 1640s and again in the 1680s, although I prefer the former.

I'd think someone who claims to speak for the entire continent of Europe would know that.

Also 1745 and 1916!

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:


It doesn't matter, though. I don't put preconditions of political correctness on nations exercising their right to self-determination, or, in this case, limited self-rule.

But Anklebiter, if you do that, they might make the WRONG determination.


Usagi Yojimbo wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

The Britishiznoids had successful revolutions in the 1640s and again in the 1680s, although I prefer the former.

I'd think someone who claims to speak for the entire continent of Europe would know that.

Also 1745 and 1916!

Edited for the Japanese bunny. (It's weird, if I'm not looking at your avatar, Usagi-san, I always picture the character and when I look at your avatar--Roy, right?--I get disappointed.)

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Usagi Yojimbo wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

The Britishiznoids had successful revolutions in the 1640s and again in the 1680s, although I prefer the former.

I'd think someone who claims to speak for the entire continent of Europe would know that.

Also 1745 and 1916!
Edited for the Japanese bunny. (It's weird, if I'm not looking at your avatar, Usagi-san, I always picture the character and when I look at your avatar--Roy, right?--I get disappointed.)

No bunnies for avatars. :( Yes, that's Roy.

"when I look at your avatar"... "I get disappointed"

Watch it, you little green commie!


News article that are not totally BS
Just the parts about russia backing anyone(because no proof) and stealth invasion of Crimea(because no proof of this particular version)

Also,REAL photo evidence of destroyed and captured armor.
Nice site,really.


Some interesting thoughts on rebel's crisis of leadership.
I honestly don't know why journalists think that this resignations is anything but misdirection(and while rebel leaders didn't read Lenin or Stalin,Sun Tsu appears to be their favorite book),but thoughts are interesting.
At the very least there are thoughts!


So,MSM are starting to acknowledge that rebels are actually counterattacking.
And just one week late.That's a progress.
But,this battle is not nearly over.Most of the interesting things are happening south of Donetsk(and i remind you,that most of the news were talking about some village north of it).
My personal question is:where the hell loyalists got two Hinds that were shot down two days ago?


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
My personal question is:where the hell loyalists got two Hinds that were shot down two days ago?

NATO countries don't have Mi-24 for sale, so make an educated guess...


Angstspawn wrote:
Vlad Koroboff wrote:
My personal question is:where the hell loyalists got two Hinds that were shot down two days ago?
NATO countries don't have Mi-24 for sale, so make an educated guess...

Well,they do have hinds...

But my guess is that's some of the old Ukrainian stuff,either from conservation or repaired during the war.


Russians,go home!.
You see,loyalists didn't yet finished destroying rebel cities.
I especially like this bit:
" Rear Adm. John Kirby....said the Russian build-up on the border "needs to stop. It just needs to stop.""
So,you see,Pentagon's chief spokesman tells Russia(!)to stop alleged build-up(existence of which Pentagon can't possibly verify)at the border of third nation,which is not in NATO.
I lost a few points of IQ just from typing that.

The Exchange

To bad about the west supporting ethnic cleansing of the pro russian majority in the east of Ukraine.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:

Russians,go home!.

You see,loyalists didn't yet finished destroying rebel cities.
I especially like this bit:
" Rear Adm. John Kirby....said the Russian build-up on the border "needs to stop. It just needs to stop.""
So,you see,Pentagon's chief spokesman tells Russia(!)to stop alleged build-up(existence of which Pentagon can't possibly verify)at the border of third nation,which is not in NATO.
I lost a few points of IQ just from typing that.

You really think that the US does not have the means to monitor troop and equipment deployment on the Ukraine-Russia border? I think you already had lost more than a few points of IQ.


Gallo wrote:
US does not have the means to monitor troop and equipment deployment

Yep.Because,you see,Crazy Ivans know when satellites are flying over.

If they wanted to stage stealth invasion,they could do it.
For example,sats have no means to distinguish real armor from decoy.
And yes,russians have decoys of most mechanized units.

yellowdingo wrote:
To bad about the west supporting ethnic cleansing of the pro russian majority in the east of Ukraine.

It's not the west.It's at best a few people.

That those few people control MSM-that's bad,yes.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Gallo wrote:
US does not have the means to monitor troop and equipment deployment

Yep.Because,you see,Crazy Ivans know when satellites are flying over.

If they wanted to stage stealth invasion,they could do it.
For example,sats have no means to distinguish real armor from decoy.
And yes,russians have decoys of most mechanized units.

Vlad, you may want to fully quote me rather than selectively quote me to make what I wrote sound like the complete opposite of what I actually said. I would hate to think it was deliberate because that would be setting new lows even by your standards.

As for your response, you really have no idea about the US intel community do you?


Gallo wrote:


As for your response, you really have no idea about the US intel community do you?

And you ever heard about counter-intelligence?

No-one was ready in.08,no-one knew anything about Crimea,so what makes you think that anything is somehow changed in five months?This leaves satellite surveillance.Which can be misdirected pretty easy.
It's not like it even needs misdirection
I need to remind you,this little photo was released as evidence that these
dastardly russians fire on loyalists from beyond the border.
Spoilers:
And they totally do.But unlike some sides in this war,THEY ARE NOT UTTERLY STUPID!


Putin was going too far by attacking and invading Ukraine, as he made Russia more distrusted than feared.
For sure Russia's image has greatly increased among dictators but it won't bring much to the country. A country isolating itself while the US enforces their position as Occident superpower and leader, while China wants to be Asia's superpower and leader, while Iran targets the position of Middle-East superpower and leader.

Putin real ambitions are only for himself, the population should understand that if Russia has nothing to offer to the world beside what it's sitting over it'll never be again a great country. The great strength of USSR was less its army than its ideology (that you loved or hated it); under the golden shine, modern Russia is withering. Strong but not adaptative it won't survive the world's evolution.

Russia won Crimea (already under its control) but lost Ukraine such a way it's risking loosing Belarus and other satellite countries the same way: supporting dictators and not populations.


Angstspawn wrote:
Putin was going too far by attacking and invading Ukraine

Except it didn't happened.Or no-one have proof,which is the same thing.

Angstspawn wrote:
A country isolating itself

Wait,what?When did that happened?

Also,i couldn't find english source because MSM,but rebels are starting to gain control over access to Azov Sea.
Or at least trying to do so.Because sea blockade is bad.

Oh,and Da Convoy went in and out,so no movie about it.
There are three movies of which i am aware about .08 war.
Each is crazy in it's own unique way.
I prefer russian one because it doesn't demonize any of the sides.

spoilers:
Except that part in the end when it does LITERALLY that.But it's crazy awesome!


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Gallo wrote:
As for your response, you really have no idea about the US intel community do you?

And you ever heard about counter-intelligence?

No-one was ready in.08,no-one knew anything about Crimea,so what makes you think that anything is somehow changed in five months?This leaves satellite surveillance.Which can be misdirected pretty easy.
It's not like it even needs misdirection
I need to remind you,this little photo was released as evidence that these
dastardly russians fire on loyalists from beyond the border.

You really have an incredibly naive and simplistic view of US capabilities. Not all capabilities are revealed, only ones that everyone already knows the US has.

Plus just because a country knows another country is doing something doesn't mean that they a. are willing to demonstrate all they know; and/or b. are willing or able to do something with what they know.


Gallo wrote:

Not all capabilities are revealed, only ones that everyone already knows the US has.

No offence,but US can't control even it's own border,much less one half a world away between two(three?four?) threat countries.

Gallo wrote:


Plus just because a country knows

They don't know.They say they know,but when they try to demonstrate any evidence,they fail harder then me in pinball.

Remember that guy?

In other news,today is Christmas Ukraine's Independence Day.In honor of said holiday,rebels finished the encirclement of three loyalist brigades.
If they manage to hold,that's South Pocket 2.0.
Stay tuned!I know i will.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Gallo wrote:

Not all capabilities are revealed, only ones that everyone already knows the US has.

No offence,but US can't control even it's own border,much less one half a world away between two(three?four?) threat countries.

See, you have done it again. Make a counter claim to someone's argument where you answer something that was not said.

Where did I say anything about controlling a border? I was commenting on your claim that the US could not know anything about Russian military movements on the Russian-Ukraine border.

Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Gallo wrote:
Plus just because a country knows another country is doing something doesn't mean that they a. are willing to demonstrate all they know; and/or b. are willing or able to do something with what they know.
They don't know.They say they know,but when they try to demonstrate any evidence,they fail harder then me in pinball.

There you go. I completed the quote for you. Wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong impression about what other posters say would we now Vlad?


Gallo wrote:


Where did I say anything about controlling a border? I was commenting on your claim that the US could not know anything about Russian military movements on the Russian-Ukraine border.

US could know only what they are allowed to know.It's not their home ground.It's not even Iraq of Afghanistan.Russians are very adept in misdirection,and their chief weapons are fear and surprise.And misdirection.

You can shuffle forces,you can deploy decoys,and you can spread misinformation.
And in times of war,you do exactly that.
And then we have Pentagon release photos confirming current russian build-up...dated three or four months old.
Some can argue that this is also attempt at misdirection.It could be.
I fail to see why looking impotent can be of any benefit to US military intelligence,but,then,i wear glasses.

This war,unlike most wars of late,is very heavy on GPW SYMBOLISM!
In 1944,there was POW parade in Moscow.
Today,instead of keeping the heaven packed with fresh souls,rebels done the same thing in Donetsk.
While i fail to see similarities between rebels and USSR,except maybe the language,symbolism of this act is not lost on me.
I even manage to find some news in proper language!


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Gallo wrote:


Where did I say anything about controlling a border? I was commenting on your claim that the US could not know anything about Russian military movements on the Russian-Ukraine border.

US could know only what they are allowed to know.It's not their home ground.It's not even Iraq of Afghanistan.Russians are very adept in misdirection,and their chief weapons are fear and surprise.And misdirection.

You can shuffle forces,you can deploy decoys,and you can spread misinformation.
And in times of war,you do exactly that.
And then we have Pentagon release photos confirming current russian build-up...dated three or four months old.
Some can argue that this is also attempt at misdirection.It could be.
I fail to see why looking impotent can be of any benefit to US military intelligence,but,then,i wear glasses.

Well Russia could do any number of things to make it look like a military buildup in preparation for an invasion, but it's much harder to do an actual military buildup without making it look like preparation.

So either Russia is building up or it wants us to think so.


thejeff wrote:


So either Russia is building up or it wants us to think so.

Pretty much sums it up.

I,personally,think that build-up is somewhere else.
Also,and this is more important,it's build-up in preparation of somewhat likely possibility that Ukraine decides to invade Russia.
My money is on Crimea.
Everyone somehow instantly forgot that before reunification there were something like 10-15k russian personnel....and 20+k ukrainian,most of whom changed sides.
So NOW there can easily be 50k troops,with naval and air support,not to mention at least two divisions of SA-21.
But NATO tells us that 15k russian army on eastern border(and i need to remind you,it's a long-ass border) is the problem.
Yeah,right.


New York Times profile on Fyodor Berzin whom I had never heard of and would have skipped right over if it hadn't been for Comrade Vlad.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

CIA analysts refuse to back the White Houses' narrative in Ukraine.

You've got to believe there's some major-league lying going on if Washington's own spooks refuse to back your B.S.

Understanding Ukraine in 15 minutes - maybe less if you're a quick reader!

For my American friends who still think you are "the good guys" and Russia is the villain, may we have 15 minutes of your time?

Let's not mince words, friends - the U.S. is entirely responsible for the mess now going down in Ukraine. Deny it all you want, demonize the Russians, whatever. You spent billions to destabiize that nation in an attempt to continue the encirclement of Russia. Just like in Gaza, the blood of innocent civilians is on your hands because you refuse to question your government, refuse to stand up to them. Yes, I know the U.S. government is scary, brutal, and evil - you've spent decades spreading war and terror around the globe, and even at home. Yes, I know your own government is monitoring everything you do, controlling you and your access to information. But the fact is, you're still complicit. When you sit back and criticize Russia for protecting it's borders, it's interests right in it's own backyard, you are nothing but a hypocrite.

When you call an aid convoy an invasion, I understand that you're used to your own government making up rationales to bomb foreign nations at will. It's okay! You get pissed off when Russia starts closing McDonalds restaurants down - I know that's an important sign of your civilization and culture, I'd be irritated as well!

Maybe Uncle Sam does know best. The U.S. leadership has seen a future where things are very different. Strange dark-skinned peoples and foreigners who speak different languages might begin to have a say over their own affairs. The dollar will cease to be the world's de facto currency, meaning the inflated standard of living that SOME Americans enjoy will come crashing down to earth. They've seen that other peoples will have control over their own resources, and maybe even elect governments that will resist American control of those resources. That's frightening stuff! Democracy isn't meant for "people" like them, is it? Why are these crazy foreigners trying to change borders that were made for them, a century ago, by good decent white folk who clearly knew better than the natives did?

Some have criticized Russia, claiming they have regional aims beyond their own borders. To that, to the west, I say: f#&! you. Yes, f&*& you for daring to have the gall to criticize Russia for having a foreign policy that protects them in their own region of the globe. F#%# you for not once raising questions regarding Washington's global aims - policies and actions designed to keep a very few rich and everyone else broken, divided, exploited. Russia could have rolled over the Ukrainian border a dozen times already, declared a no-fly zone, annihilated the already-weak Ukrainian and neo-nazi forces attacking the ethnic Russian populations - that they haven't is a sign that Putin is more statesman than warmonger. I understand that this is hard for Americans who like to kick ass and kill sand-ni@@ers and commies to get.

To those who just hate Putin - you've got much bigger snakes to deal with in Washington, in Brussels. Put it aside and deal with the larger problem, the worlds biggest problem since the first world war - the good ol' USA.


Down with US imperialism!

Vive le Galt!


Thanks for the links Locke.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Gallo wrote:


Where did I say anything about controlling a border? I was commenting on your claim that the US could not know anything about Russian military movements on the Russian-Ukraine border.

US could know only what they are allowed to know.It's not their home ground.It's not even Iraq of Afghanistan.Russians are very adept in misdirection,and their chief weapons are fear and surprise.And misdirection.

Their three chief weapons are fear, surprise and misdirection. And ruthless efficiency.

Their four chief weapons are fear, surprise, misdirection, ruthless efficiency... and fanatical devotion to the Pope.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
JohnLocke wrote:
Some have criticized Russia, claiming they have regional aims beyond their own borders. To that, to the west, I say: f+*+ you. Yes, f#$+ you for daring to have the gall to criticize Russia for having a foreign policy that protects them in their own region of the globe. F$+@ you for not once raising questions regarding Washington's global aims - policies and actions designed to keep a very few rich and everyone else broken, divided, exploited. Russia could have rolled over the Ukrainian border a dozen times already, declared a no-fly zone, annihilated the already-weak Ukrainian and neo-nazi forces attacking the ethnic Russian populations - that they haven't is a sign that Putin is more statesman than warmonger. I understand that this is hard for Americans who like to kick ass and kill sand-ni@@ers and commies to get.

See, I'm with you on pointing out the evil things that the US does around the world. But don't pretend that Putin is some how "saving" people. That just makes you sound naive at best.

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