The Ukraine thingy


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Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
But manners are getting the better of me, so I will not.

Pff. Be the bigger goblin!


BBC Report on MH17.

Apparently, the BBC footage has been deleted from their website, I guess it does not fit the "narrative"...

I saw an interesting report by a German aviation expert that also claims that the airplane was subject to 30mm caliber bullets.
Shocking Analysis of the ‘Shooting Down’ of Malaysian MH17


Dennis Harry wrote:


I saw an interesting report by a German aviation expert that also claims that the airplane was subject to 30mm caliber bullets.

This does not correlate well with russian radar data.

AAM,on the other hand...
Oh well.Maybe it was subject to this little beauty on it's way down.
I don't know.I wasn't there.


Ukrainian air force started to use UAVs,one of which was apparently captured
God this is sticks and stones compared to Predator.
But then,if you need that intelligence RIGHT NOW it's not so bad.
Also can't be shot down with a stone's throw thanks to speed.
But apparently CAN be shot down.Or maybe it's just broke by itself.


Obviously, everything is a conspiracy against Russia! We're back to Soviet rhetoric!
Anyway we got used, it's pointless to argue.
If Russians don't remember what was Soviet Union lets them remake a new one, but that time Europe won't be fooled, nor let itself invaded.

So far, besides pleasures to intimate for me to expose them here, I don't see what was the positive contribution of Russia to the world since 1991.


I enjoyed A Werewolf Problem in Central Russia.


Angstspawn wrote:
Obviously, everything is a conspiracy against Russia!

What?How a stupid leaders equals conspiracy?Can happen to any country.

Angstspawn wrote:


If Russians don't remember what was Soviet Union lets them remake a new one

New Soviet Union,in this day and age,is impossible.Clearly you don't understand what USSR was.

Besides:
most of these freeloaders were useless during soviet union and are even more useless now.Even Ukraine,former research and engineering powerhouse,now is not worth annexing.

Angstspawn wrote:
I don't see what was the positive contribution of Russia to the world since 1991.

There is such thing as EU because Crazy Ivans allow it

They could easily ally with China twenty-five years ago,and good luck trying to become superpower without access to cheap energy.
Maybe you were looking with the wrong eye?
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
I enjoyed A Werewolf Problem in Central Russia.

Russia also makes really good B-class movies.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Slaunyeh wrote:
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:


However, I apologize for being mean and snarky to you, Citizen Aranna. I don't know you, unlike the rest of the imperialist running-dog stooges in here, and it was rude and unhelpful.

My work here is done. ;)

*vanishes in a poof of rainbow sparkles*

Although, after reading through Citizen Aranna's linked website, and, in particular, the article attacking Glenn Beck from the right for wanting to provide "Christian humanitarianism" to the Central American border refugees, I felt like I was justified and considered withdrawing the apology.

But manners are getting the better of me, so I will not.

The views presented by certain websites I linked may or may not represent my own views. Best to simply ask me what I think about a completely separate issue.

PS: Manners are a good thing.


Aranna wrote:
The views presented by certain websites I linked may or may not represent my own views. Best to simply ask me what I think about a completely separate issue.

I am not terribly interested in what you think about completely separate issues.

I speculated that in order to come up with the narrative that "Evil pro-Russian terrorists bragged about shooting down civilian airliner and then looted it while laughing" one would have to be immersed in some really terrible American media.

Speculation confirmed.

Quote:

PS: Manners are a good thing.

Have a great weekend!


For the record:one tank is worth more than that entire plane's cargo.
If these wascaly webels wanted money,there are easier ways.
Rob local PrivatBank,for example.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
Aranna wrote:
The views presented by certain websites I linked may or may not represent my own views. Best to simply ask me what I think about a completely separate issue.

I am not terribly interested in what you think about completely separate issues.

I speculated that in order to come up with the narrative that "Evil pro-Russian terrorists bragged about shooting down civilian airliner and then looted it while laughing" one would have to be immersed in some really terrible American media.

Speculation confirmed.

Of course, because in the time honored tradition of tabloids everywhere you have mastered the art of "if you can't discredit the speaker than discredit their source by pointing out less PC stories that source may have also carried."

I would apologize for using terrorist... but the people living there are afraid of what the rebels will do next... That may not be enough in some peoples eyes to be considered terrorist. So I humbly withdraw that term instead since that seems to be the only substance behind your attacks.


Anyway, this will remain as a major political failure for both Europe and Russia!
Europe being responsible for the first 15 years and Russia for the last 5 years.

It's pitiful when you consider that we have the food, and they have the drink; we have the place, and they have the girls; we have desire, and they have appetite. I let you imagine how wild had been the party from Lisbon to Vladivostok!
Instead of this we'll have to grin and bark at each other for a decade or two. Sad...


Aranna wrote:

Of course, because in the time honored tradition of tabloids everywhere you have mastered the art of "if you can't discredit the speaker than discredit their source by pointing out less PC stories that source may have also carried."

I would apologize for using terrorist... but the people living there are afraid of what the rebels will do next... That may not be enough in some peoples eyes to be considered terrorist. So I humbly withdraw that term instead since that seems to be the only substance behind your attacks.

Well, I guess that's a difference of opinion. I thought you had been pretty well discredited before you even posted that link.


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Aranna wrote:
but the people living there are afraid of what the rebels will do next...

No they are NOT.

They are living in fear of what the loyalists will use against them.
First there was artillery,then MRLS,then airstrikes,and now ballistic missiles.
What's next?
Angstspawn wrote:


Instead of this we'll have to grin and bark at each other for a decade or two. Sad...

Yep,that's sad.But,like i said,every country has stupid rulers from time to time.Some survive,some are not.

I THINK that present situation is better then Balkan wars.


The plot thinkens!

I think it's time we say goodbye to 72nd Mechanized Brigade.60% casualties,and lost ALL weapons,supplies and armor.Three more brigades(or what's left of them)remain in the pocket.
I expect russian media to spin THE HELL out of this event.


I was reading in a commie article that "some" now refer to Ukraine as the "Khaganate of the Nulands" but when I type that into google all I get is Pepe Escobar. :(

Anyway, it did point me in the direction of Mr. Nuland's relatively recent article in The Atlantic, In Defense of Empire.

Should be a good read.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:


Should be a good read.

Excuse me,sir,i have a question.

I can buy that Israel have enemies that theoretically can overrun it,as do Taiwan.
Who and why even theoretically would want to do ANYTHING such with Poland?


I hear they give good head.


I heard they gradually transform their military into near-best in EU...but that's basically the same,because they have no enemies to defend FROM.
So Iraq,Afghan....err....Ukraine?Whatever is USA's enemy of the day.


"If only Kerry was properly imperial, like Kissinger, then we could clear up all this MidEast shiznit and get on with the pivot to Asia..."

Anyway geopolitical strategy ain't my thing, so beats me.

You will be pleased to hear, Comrade Vlad, that I was telling the story of this thread to my dear friend, Omar the Former Arab Terrorist. who has seen a bit more of this dying planet than me and I described you as "this nasty, cynical Russian D&D dork who might be a paid agent of Sexy Putin" and he interrupted me by saying "Woah, a nasty, cynical Russian? You don't say? Are there any Frenchmen on there who like cheese?"

Btw, if, perchance, you are an agent of Sexy Putin, I will happily sell you top-secret American industrial plans for small package delivery if you could get me an English-language set of Lenin's Collected Works and a date with Anna Chapman.


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
"Woah, a nasty, cynical Russian?"

He is entirely correct.Also,my wife has french roots and she LOVES cheese.She is also nasty and cynical:)Idealism is overrated.

Besides,industrial plans are easy.
There is a bigger problem


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Besides,industrial plans are easy.

No, no, they're top secret. They'll triple profits for Russian state-owned post office. Presuming you guys still have one, I don't know.

[Scans link]

Well, great, there goes my dreams of retiring on a fat, cushy corporate espionage pension...


Comrade Anklebiter wrote:


Well, great, there goes my dreams of retiring on a fat, cushy corporate espionage pension...

And this is why Crazy Ivans bought not just two Mistral-class helicopter carriers,but full documentation adapted for local capabilities(!),for extra two hundred mil.

Actually,200 mil for R&D of this class is dirt cheap.
This is also why not transferring Mistral-class to russians accomplishes less then nothing.


Coool there'll be Russians in the upcoming James Bond movies!!!
I hope they'll reintroduce gadgets too.

Liberty's Edge

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Comrade Anklebiter wrote:


Anyway, it did point me in the direction of Mr. Nuland's relatively recent article in The Atlantic, In Defense of Empire.

Should be a good read.

Huh. "A measure of equality"? "America should intervene around the world to improve it, while avoiding entanglement"?

The author appears to be somewhat confused. Though bonus points for admitting that he was cribbing from "White Man's Burden".


The author, btw, is the husband of Ambassador "F+++ the EU, we call the shots around here" Nuland, Also, Usagi-san, there's a joke for you over in the Intro to Comparative Religion thread.

Liberty's Edge

Vlad Koroboff wrote:

I heard they gradually transform their military into near-best in EU...but that's basically the same,because they have no enemies to defend FROM.

So Iraq,Afghan....err....Ukraine?Whatever is USA's enemy of the day.

This is one of those times where I can't tell if you are serious. They would say they are getting ready to defend themselves from a large, aggressive country to their east which has invaded them many times in their history.

Liberty's Edge

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

The author, btw, is the husband of Ambassador "F%** the EU, we call the shots around here" Nuland,

Also, Usagi-san, there's a joke for you over in the Intro to Comparative Religion thread.

A) AAAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!! Great. Just what we need more of.

B) Funny, until it reminded me of the "joke" about the Troubles in Ireland...

No, never mind, I'll post it over there. OTD can handle black humor.


[Switches hats]

What are the state of German-Polish relations these days? I always kinda figured they suck America's genitalia, to prettify the language of Foreign Minister Sikorski, because they couldn't trust anyone around them.

Also, because of gratitude for support when I tried to crush those Solidarnosc hippies.


Usagi Yojimbo wrote:


This is one of those times where I can't tell if you are serious. They would say they are getting ready to defend themselves from a large, aggressive country to their east which has invaded them many times in their history.

Yes,they would say so,but that's a lie.

They probably can fear large,agressive country to the west that invaded them many times(and last time i heard,utterly demolished Warsaw just for kicks)but that means that a)EU is doomed and b)Poland leaders know about this.
So who's the target,then?


A few photos of 1st And Only UAV squadron of DPR.
Please do not laugh.


Ukrainian government thanks sheeple for their services and reminds that now it's time to go back farm.
Or else.


So,if we believe pro-government news,surrounded forces numbering 1000 successfuly and escaped russian(!)pocket and reunited with the main force.
Even if we take 1k at a face value,which i'm perfectly willing to,there were like 6k soldiers in that pocket.
Great job,Ukraine.
And to think that these guys stopped Hitler...


I don't buy it.
Mostly because Su-25 kinda sucks in AA missions and who will use it when MiG-29 are readily available?


Rebel hackers are awesome
We,of course,can't independently verify anything except utter and total stupidity of using facebook messaging service(or using facebook at all if you are even a tiny bit important),but these messages kinda make sense.

TL;DR:
MH17 was shot down by air-to-air missile.Launched from an Ukrainian plane.

P.S.:
But of course the whole show was ordered by Putin personnaly and carried out by rebel team that captured said plane.Kinda like in 24


Here's a little non-translated map for the last ten days
What will happen during a next week or so is more or less decisive battle of the whole war.
Central government pulled all even half combat-ready forces(and all artillery) to north and northwest of Donetsk,while rebels declared that they have 200 armor units,including captured in the southern pocket(which,somehow,gets NO SPOTLIGHT AT ALL IN THE WESTERN MEDIA LIKE IT WASN'T EXISTED!1984,anyone?),for defence.
And those sneaky russians are planning some kind of humanitarian operation..


Thank you for the informations Vlad, it's a good news if separatists are on the way to be defeated!
Still, I'm afraid it won't be that simple as Russia is using "humanitarian operation" to invade Ukraine once again.

I wonder what's Putin next step? Maybe he will say Ukrainian governmental amy has to be disbanded for not being efficient enough and 100% replaced by Russian soldiers. Again it would not be an invasion, just a military help...

Unfortunately for Putin, Stalin was using the same approach (supporting fake autonomists movements) to spread his dictature and invade half Europe, so we know we have to stop him. As USSR was spoiling our life for nearly 50 years.

It would be very funny to see Ukraine rushing into NATO and EU because of Putin!
So far it's amazing to see that Ukraine officials are advised by NATO, and that Ukrainians secret services are opposing the FSB... crazy!!

I recently read Russia wants to open a military base in Belarus, does it mean Kremlin is afraid Ukrainians started an Eastern Spring?


Angstspawn wrote:
Thank you for the informations Vlad, it's a good news if separatists are on the way to be defeated!

Wait,what?

Who said that?
Angstspawn wrote:
"humanitarian operation"

Lose the quote marks.Arms supplies are hidden from view,even if they exist.

Angstspawn wrote:


I wonder what's Putin next step?

Do NOTHING.Literally nothing.Take care of refugees,because increasing population by a few more millions is always good.I'm starting to think that it was the target in the first place.

Angstspawn wrote:


It would be very funny to see Ukraine rushing into NATO and EU because of Putin!

Problem is,nobody wants them there.

Angstspawn wrote:


I recently read Russia wants to open a military base in Belarus, does it mean Kremlin is afraid Ukrainians started an Eastern Spring?

No,it means that powers that be think that

threat countries must be within
destination of tactical bombers,rather than strategic.
WHY would they think so and who exactly are those threat countries is anyone's guess,but i suggest checking combat radius of Su-34 from base'position.They are somewhere in that circle)

Angstspawn wrote:
spread his dictature

That would be dictatorship of the proletariat.And that's a good thing,if done right.

Oh,and while i'm here,i'd like to recommend
a game that tells us who the threat countries are,and why they will totally lose

Spoiler:
It's because their bomber force SUCKS


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Angstspawn wrote:
spread his dictature

That would be dictature of the proletariat.

I hope you're kidding, because he's not even pretending that anymore.

However much you long for the glory of the Soviet days, that's not what being aimed at.


thejeff wrote:


However much you long for the glory of the Soviet days, that's not what being aimed at.

When people talk about glory of the soviet days,they talk missiles,first man in space,tens of thousands of tanks and stuff.

Problem is,last soviet leader that understood anything about communism or followed it was Stalin,yes.
From that point it all went downhill,and in the early eighties it all went to hell.
I think we are talking about different glory days here.
Also,the man wrote unbelievable amount of books on to how to do a revolution right,and,most importantly,why.
Question that still isn't answered by new republics,BTW.
I think...:
Like i said,it's all a plot by El Presidente to substantially improve demographics for free.Well,more or less free.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
thejeff wrote:


However much you long for the glory of the Soviet days, that's not what being aimed at.

When people talk about glory of the soviet days,they talk missiles,first man in space,tens of thousands of tanks and stuff.

Problem is,last soviet leader that understood anything about communism or followed it was Stalin,yes.
From that point it all went downhill,and in the early eighties it all went to hell.
I think we are talking about different glory days here.
Also,the man wrote unbelievable amount of books on to how to do a revolution right,and,most importantly,why.
Question that still isn't answered by new republics,BTW.
** spoiler omitted **

When you start talking about how Stalin followed communism or knew how to do a revolution right and how it all went downhill after him, I really have to conclude you're either a monster or have no clue about your own country's history.


thejeff wrote:

Stalin followed communism or knew how to do a revolution right

You see,i don't need to read your or anyone's opinion about what Stalin was or was not.I can,you know,read the man himself,it's not like there isn't 18 collected tomes of his works.And when some questions arise,i can go to library and dig a little.

This produces awesome results,BTW.Remember that Golodomor fake?
thejeff wrote:

you're a monster

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
"Woah, a nasty, cynical Russian? You don't say?

Also well-educated.

But,still need to read Mao.I heard the man was crazy brilliant.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
thejeff wrote:

Stalin followed communism or knew how to do a revolution right

You see,i don't need to read your or anyone's opinion about what Stalin was or was not.I can,you know,read the man himself,it's not like there isn't 18 collected tomes of his works.And when some questions arise,i can go to library and dig a little.

This produces awesome results,BTW.Remember that Golodomor fake?
thejeff wrote:

you're a monster

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
"Woah, a nasty, cynical Russian? You don't say?

Also well-educated.

But,still need to read Mao.I heard the man was crazy brilliant.

Right. Completely in denial. I should have remembered.

It is quite possible to be well-educated and still in denial.


thejeff wrote:
in denial.

Wait,what?Stop trying to read my mind.Charisma damage may affect your everyday life.

Next thing you'll attribute to me is that i think that communism is the only true way.


Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Angstspawn wrote:


It would be very funny to see Ukraine rushing into NATO and EU because of Putin!

Problem is, nobody wants them there.

Maybe not today, but it would take 10 years or so for Ukraine to be able to enter the EU. Actually the main issue would be Crimea, this problem must be solved (one way or another) before. But I've no doubt Ukrainians will be interested joining the EU. Economically, Russia is a total failure as no European country (besides Bulgaria) is poorer. Your proletarian revolution failed completely. The only thing Russia is still producing is its own delusion of grandeur!

Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Angstspawn wrote:
I recently read Russia wants to open a military base in Belarus, does it mean Kremlin is afraid Ukrainians started an Eastern Spring?

No, it means that powers that be think that threat countries must be within destination of tactical bombers, rather than strategic.

WHY would they think so and who exactly are those threat countries is anyone's guess, but I suggest checking combat radius of Su-34 from base's position. They are somewhere in that circle).
[...]
Oh, and while I'm here, I'd like to recommend:
a game that tells us who the threat countries are,and why they will totally lose

I'm not sure a video game is a good source of inspiration.

First I'm surprised they forgot French military forces but maybe the second best European army is not important. So, if I understand you well Europe should be afraid of Russia. Most probably. Now, I will ask you something: besides European aviation and anti-aircraft defenses, what Su-34 will do against 290 French nuclear warheads and 160 British nuclear warheads used in retaliation of its bombing?
Russia can attack the EU and destroy it, but there'll not be Russia anymore within one hour. Moreso, even in a conventional conflict (which is impossible between nations that are nuclear powers) should I remind you that Russian army never confronted a modern army. Western Europe is not Ukraine, Russians shouldn't try to bite more than they can chew!


Angstspawn wrote:
But I've no doubt Ukrainians will be interested joining the EU.

Well,obviously!At least survivors.At least some of them.

TEN YEARS IS A VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME FOR A COUNTRY IN THIS SITUATION.
I can't stress that enough.Besides,joining EU as-is does nothing for the country.You don't get richer for joining.
Angstspawn wrote:
Economically, Russia is a total failure as no European country (besides Bulgaria) is poorer.

That would be two lies in one sentence.

Angstspawn wrote:
Your proletarian revolution failed completely.

It was never my revolution or even russia's revolution.It was proletariat's revolution.

And it's succeeded,if you didn't noticed.You know,back in 1917?But it was a long time ago...
Have fun dealing with capitalism now,without USSR for counter-balance it:)
Angstspawn wrote:

The only thing Russia is still producing is its own delusion of grandeur!

Now you are being silly.

Angstspawn wrote:


First I'm surprised they forgot French military forces but maybe the second best European army is not important.

No,the French are not stupid and choose not to involve themselves.

It's obviously not their war.
Angstspawn wrote:
European anti-aircraft defenses

And again you are being silly.

Seriously,play the game.You will understand.
Angstspawn wrote:
290 French nuclear warheads and 160 British nuclear warheads

Crazy Ivans have more.Which is why there will be no escalation.Because if you lose conventional war,you lose the right to fish or drill somewhere.

In a nuclear war,you lose everything,whether you win or lose.
Angstspawn wrote:
which is impossible between nations that are nuclear powers

But of course it is!

And that's not counting tens of thousands soviet personnel in a Vietnam War.
Angstspawn wrote:
Western Europe is not Ukraine

No-one needs western europe.No-one even needs Ukraine!

The only valuable things there are manufacturing centers,coal mines and
shale oil.Oh,and population.
Guess what,Crazy Ivans have enough coal,they already got shale oil,and population will flee to Russia anyway.It's not like they have a choice.
This leaves manufacturing centers.They are awesome.But apparently not worth fighting a war for.

The Exchange

petition to admonish Obama administration over ethnic cleansing of pro russian majority in donetsk


Vlad Koroboff wrote:


Angstspawn wrote:
spread his dictature

That would be dictatorship of the proletariat.And that's a good thing,if done right.

Uhm, what? Russia isn't a dictatorship (more than western countries) and CERTAINLY there's no dictatorship of the proletariat involved. Putin's no marxist, there isn't a socialist revolution in russia and Putin's government is a fascistoid liberal democracy.

(Granted I'm against the use of a dictatorship of the proletariat as a way to a communist society, the state will always protect itself and as we can see from history every socialist revolution that has included taking power of the state as opposed to fighting the state has devolved into various fascistoid countries. But that still doesn't make Putin's fascistoid liberal democracy a dictatorship of the proletariat.)


Vlad Koroboff wrote:

Problem is,last soviet leader that understood anything about communism or followed it was Stalin,yes.

Ugh

No. Just... No.


Gaberlunzie wrote:


Uhm, what?

I'll include full quote for you^^

Angstspawn wrote:
Stalin was using the same approach (supporting fake autonomists movements) to spread his dictature

You see?Your entire post is irrelevant except maybe playing captain Obvious,because no-one said anything about dictatorship of proletariat in present RF.That would be stupid.

Gaberlunzie wrote:


No. Just... No.

Well,that's a mature argument.

yellowdingo wrote:
petition to admonish Obama administration over ethnic cleansing of pro russian majority in donetsk

And Dingo,it will never happen.You can't fight regime that way(but it wants you to)

But it can potentially put you in the crosshairs:)
Also,remember,for US,there is no such thing as ethnic cleansing in Ukraine.Hell,there is no such thing as rebel army!And separatists are pro-russian!
South pocket did not actually exist in mass media,and it's the first encirclement operation in Europe in gods know how many years.

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