How does the Holy Gun work, anyway?


Rules Questions


Looking over the Holy Gun archetype of the Paladin from Ultimate Combat, it gets Smiting Shot at 2nd level, which requires 1 Grit Point to use. The thing is, as far as I can tell Holy Guns only get access to Grit Points at 11th Level, barring multiclassing into the Gunslinger.

Am I missing something here?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Holy Guns get the Amateur Gunslinger feat at 1st level, which gives them grit.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

The Amateur Gunslinger feat gives you grit.

Amateur Gunslinger wrote:
Benefit: You gain a small amount of grit and the ability to perform a single 1st-level deed from the gunslinger deed class feature. At the start of the day, you gain 1 grit point, though throughout the day you can gain grit points up to a maximum of your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). You can regain grit using the rules for the gunslinger's grit class feature (see page 9). You can spend this grit to perform the 1st-level deed you chose upon taking this feat, and any other deed you have gained through feats or magic items.


Ah, right.

Phew. And I need to check all the feats involved next time, huh.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

(Personal Opinion)

"How does the Holy Gun work, anyway?"

Not very well*. Usually if I'm going to play a Roland of Gilead-esque church gunslinger, I just go cross-class into Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger archetype) from Paladin or Cleric.

One of my gaming group and I created a Gunsmoke domain for Clerics; if this is for a game where the GM will allow custom content you might take a look.

*To clarify: The biggest problem I have with Holy Gun is the fact that you lose Smite Evil in exchange for a deed that grants you the benefit of Smite Evil with your gun - for one grit point, for one shot only. This is compared to the standard ability which is limited in uses per day but at least lasts the entire combat (or until the smited creature is dead).

Shadow Lodge

horngeek wrote:

Ah, right.

Phew. And I need to check all the feats involved next time, huh.

A lot of people (I'm currently running a wild west game) forget that Amateur Gunslinger also gives you one 1st level deed. Go with Quick Clear!


[QUOTE="Xaratherus"
*To clarify: The biggest problem I have with Holy Gun is the fact that you lose Smite Evil in exchange for a deed that grants you the benefit of Smite Evil with your gun - for one grit point, for one shot only. This is compared to the standard ability which is limited in uses per day but at least lasts the entire combat (or until the smited creature is dead).

On the upside, you're attacking its touch AC, and doing it from a safe(r) distance.


Zhayne wrote:
Xaratherus wrote:


*To clarify: The biggest problem I have with Holy Gun is the fact that you lose Smite Evil in exchange for a deed that grants you the benefit of Smite Evil with your gun - for one grit point, for one shot only. This is compared to the standard ability which is limited in uses per day but at least lasts the entire combat (or until the smited creature is dead).
On the upside, you're attacking its touch AC, and doing it from a safe(r) distance.

True but - in that instance I sort of find it more worthwhile to just take the a dip into Gunslinger and keep the standard Paladin progression. Then you get some additional grit, some extra deeds, everything you need to wield the gun, and you still get to target touch AC with your Smite against the target for the whole round.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Really, using Holy Gun's Smiting Shot requires a bit of a paradigm shift from playing a normal paladin. Where normally the paladin saves her smites and uses them on big tough individual foes, Smiting Shot looks like it's meant to be used on waves of mooks. Every time you drop a foe you get your grit point back, so the idea is to use it over and over again.

It's less about full attacking the BBEG and more about dropping his minions round after round. If you find that uninteresting, then the archetype is probably not for you.


Xaratherus wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
Xaratherus wrote:


*To clarify: The biggest problem I have with Holy Gun is the fact that you lose Smite Evil in exchange for a deed that grants you the benefit of Smite Evil with your gun - for one grit point, for one shot only. This is compared to the standard ability which is limited in uses per day but at least lasts the entire combat (or until the smited creature is dead).
On the upside, you're attacking its touch AC, and doing it from a safe(r) distance.
True but - in that instance I sort of find it more worthwhile to just take the a dip into Gunslinger and keep the standard Paladin progression. Then you get some additional grit, some extra deeds, everything you need to wield the gun, and you still get to target touch AC with your Smite against the target for the whole round.

Additionally, you don't even need to have a high dex stat, since you'll be hitting touch AC plus possible smite evil effects, and therefore be pretty much as effective as a non-gunslinger paladin in melee and other tasks.


ryric wrote:

Really, using Holy Gun's Smiting Shot requires a bit of a paradigm shift from playing a normal paladin. Where normally the paladin saves her smites and uses them on big tough individual foes, Smiting Shot looks like it's meant to be used on waves of mooks. Every time you drop a foe you get your grit point back, so the idea is to use it over and over again.

It's less about full attacking the BBEG and more about dropping his minions round after round. If you find that uninteresting, then the archetype is probably not for you.

If it worked for eg a full round per grit point spent, then it would be worthwhile. As it is, it's going to be a bit hit-or-miss (pun intended) whether it is cost-effective to use a grit on any given enemy. Low level enemies don't get you your grit back, but one shot isn't likely to drop a slightly better enemy, as you increase in levels. And it's not very satisfying to have your main 'special' be weak against the main baddies.

Dark Archive

Quote:
How does the Holy Gun work, anyway?

Very poorly.


Well, as you increase in levels you do get more Grit points.


Question: Can you use the smiting gun on a scatter gun ? Ôo

It seems to be yes... Huuuuuu!

Shadow Lodge

HectorVivis wrote:

Question: Can you use the smiting gun on a scatter gun ? Ôo

It seems to be yes... Huuuuuu!

Hmmm I think it might... SMITE AOE!!!!!


The Beard wrote:
Quote:
How does the Holy Gun work, anyway?
Very poorly.

Yeah, verily yeah. Under most normal circumstances, you are far better off taking one or more levels of Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger than Holy Gun. Even the default Gunslinger with no Archetypes can be superior.


If it works with a scatter gun, that might be the only thing I see making Holy Gun superior to simply going straight Paladin and then dipping into Gunslinger. Since your Smite is no longer target-bound as a Holy Gun, but instead is tied to your weapon, then Smite with a scatter gun would be very potent in certain situations.


"THIS ... is my SMITESTICK."

Sovereign Court

So ... say you were in a home game that allowed Holy Gun. Would you do 3 levels of that, or a level of gunslinger and 2 levels of paladin?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd go 1/2. Better saves (not that a paladin really needs the help, but still) and more grit.


1 Mysterious stranger, 2 Divine Hunter (not the hunter archetype, the paladin one) is probably better than 3 Holy gun, unless advanced firearms are a thing and you can smite with a double shotty. In that case, I think it's still worse, but the AoE damage potential is very appealing.

Sovereign Court

LoneKnave wrote:
1 Mysterious stranger, 2 Divine Hunter (not the hunter archetype, the paladin one) is probably better than 3 Holy gun, unless advanced firearms are a thing and you can smite with a double shotty. In that case, I think it's still worse, but the AoE damage potential is very appealing.

What are the advantages of this particular MCA over the base gunslinger 1/paladin 2?


Divine hunter gives you an extra feat (precise shot) as bonus. Mysterious stranger gives a deed that adds CHA to your shots.

Sovereign Court

LoneKnave wrote:
Divine hunter gives you an extra feat (precise shot) as bonus. Mysterious stranger gives a deed that adds CHA to your shots.

I like it. Thank you.


Divine hunter is a trash archetype, don't take it. You barely need precise shot anyway, since you shoot against touch ac


How's Divine Hunter a trash archetype? Especially for only the first 2 levels.

Sovereign Court

ok, so for the sake of getting past the fact that most of you hate the archetype.

Holy Slinger (Ex)
This ability functions like the holy champion paladin class feature, but the banishment occurs when she hits an evil outsider with the smiting shot deed.

paizo has some poor wording. most classes say it replaces, it alters or its gained at a specific level.

is this poor wording on their part or you gain it at 1st level?

now looking at it is clearly implied to me its mean to replace or alter the 20th lvl ability. but for the RAW world it doesn't specify.

also
Smiting Shot (Su) (replaces smite evil).

Ok clearly mentioned. so what about later on when i active this ability?
Aura of Justice (Su)
At 11th level, a paladin can expend two uses of her smite evil ability to grant the ability to smite evil to all allies within 10 feet, using her bonuses. Allies must use this smite evil ability by the start of the paladin’s next turn and the bonuses last for 1 minute. Using this ability is a free action. Evil creatures gain no benefit from this ability.

do i suddenly give all my allies Smite Evil? or do i give them Smiting Shot?

doesnt say it alters Aura of Justice.

so if you were the DM in this game how would you rule these abilities if the player's character was taken to these points.


1. Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger)
2. - 3. Paladin (Holy Gun)
4. - X. Vigilante (Gunmaster)

That's the least crappy way I could see the Holy Gun Paladin archetype working. Charisma-based Grit, Divine Grace, AND you're NOT a Gunslinger or a Paladin, which is a bonus in my opinion. But your mileage may vary.

PS. Divine Deeds can only be used by the Holy Gun, therefore he could not share Smiting Shot via Aura of Justice... Even though I'm pretty sure Holy Grit is SUPPOSED TO replace Aura of Justice, anyways.

Dark Archive

Holy Gun works best when combined with the following:

Bolt Ace Gunslinger, Far Strike Qinggong Monk, Sniper Underground Chemist Rogue. At 5th level you now have all the feats you need to hit things at range with half penalties, sneak attack against touch at one range increment, and otherwise wreak havoc with thrown or ranged weapons. Take the Accomplished Sneak Attacker and you are only 1d6 behind a straight Rogue (2d6).

Your saves will be (way) better, but your BAB will be worse (of course).

I'd suggest dipping 2 into Shadowdancer or Ninja to get HIPS/Vanishing trick and/or evasion after that. But that is up to you. Nothing like being invisible when you want to be / while you reload and before each attack for sneak attacking.

That's my 2 cents, as long as you aren't taking a class that is PFS legal, you might as well mix it up some. You can then decide what to work up from there.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / How does the Holy Gun work, anyway? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.