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Hello forumites!
I was wondering, could there be a viable way to make a build focused on hiding weapons, sneaking them into places they ought not be, and using them primarily in combat.
Only real specifications is it must be able to party face and trap find/disable[for an upcoming campaign, or for PFS, either way I want the ability for this], along with the hidden weapon gimmick. For build options, lets use PFS rules.
So, any particularly good feats/traits/classes/class archetypes/etc. that might work?
Rogue or bard slight of hand baggy clothing and iirc there is a small dagger that gives bonus to soh. For hiding on your person
If you don't mind rogues here's a archetype that might work Knife master (Archetype) The knife master is a trained killer who specializes in close-up combat and the wave and weave of knife fighting. In her hands, daggers and other similar light blades become truly deadly instruments..
Hidden Blade: A knife master adds 1/2 her level on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a light blade. This ability replaces trapfinding.
Sneak Stab (Ex): A knife master focuses her ability to deal sneak attack damage with daggers and similar weapons to such a degree that she can deal more sneak attack damage with those weapons at the expense of sneak attacks with other weapons. When she makes a sneak attack with a dagger, kerambit, kukri, punching daggers, starknife, or swordbreaker dagger (Advanced Player's Guide 178), she uses d8s to roll sneak attack damage instead of d6s. For sneak attacks with all other weapons, she uses d4s instead of d6s. This ability is identical in all other ways to sneak attack, and supplements that ability.
Blade Sense (Ex): At 3rd level, a knife master is so skilled in combat involving light blades that she gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made against her with light blades. This bonus increases by +1 for every three levels, to a maximum of +6 at 18th level. This ability replaces trap sense.
Rogue Talents: The following rogue talents complement the knife master archetype: befuddling strike, combat trick, offensive defense, surprise attack, underhanded*, and weapon training.
Advanced Talents: The following advanced rogue talents complement the knife master archetype: another day, confounding blades*, deadly sneak, entanglement of blades, and unwitting ally*.
I think underhanded is the classical rogue talent for this kind of build (not sure if it was alread fiexe though).
By the other hand, you can just take trapfinding with the trapfinding trait.
There's the Betrayer feat. However it'd only be useful at the very beginning of combat and only if you intend to initiate it and one would only get the most out of it if they were a ninja, rogue or vivisectionist alchemist (or any other thing that gets sneak attack).
Not sure of what else can be done combat wise involving hidden weapons. Perhaps grab a pair of spring-loaded sheaths and attempt a knife throwing build?
The Sword Cane can be held in plain sight with a DC 20 perception check to identify as a weapon, but it isn't eligible for Weapon Finesse so it might not be worth it.
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Thanks for the advice!
Wow, underhanded does look great. Thanks! But I can't take the Trapfinding trait, since I'm not playing in Mummy's Mask, and this might wind up being a Society character. I suppose if I needed to, I could ask the GM to take the trait, but overall I think I'd rather just get Trapfinding from a class [even just a dip].I think underhanded is the classical rogue talent for this kind of build (not sure if it was alread fiexe though).
By the other hand, you can just take trapfinding with the trapfinding trait.
Yeah, it doesn't seem like there are a whole lot of options really. Betrayer is neat, but I doubt I'll be the one initiating combat if things keep going towards 3/4BAB d8HD classes. That squish factor is really something to worry about. I wouldn't be opposed to Knife-throwing, but I don't know how viable it will be, what with a high cost and little return. If nothing else, I suppose it could be neat for a switch-hit build.Mask
There's the Betrayer feat. However it'd only be useful at the very beginning of combat and only if you intend to initiate it and one would only get the most out of it if they were a ninja, rogue or vivisectionist alchemist (or any other thing that gets sneak attack).
Not sure of what else can be done combat wise involving hidden weapons. Perhaps grab a pair of spring-loaded sheaths and attempt a knife throwing build?
Ninja is certainly a nice option, but I'd prefer to be medium because most treasure is medium-sized, and sometimes you are waiting a while before you can buy. I'll have to look into spring-loaded wrist sheaths.If you want to be the face as well, use a Ninja for the Ki powers working off Cha synergy. Halfling, since you don't care about the weapon dice just the sneak dice. Shuriken for ammo free action drawing.
There's a trait for trapfinding.
Spring loaded wrist sheathes, Underhanded talent, Offensive Defense and Deft Palm/Hidden Weapons.
Nice synergy.
The Sword Cane can be held in plain sight with a DC 20 perception check to identify as a weapon, but it isn't eligible for Weapon Finesse so it might not be worth it.
Actually, according to the PRD and SRD, it does. I think there was an errata, since my edition of the UE says the same thing, but is old [don't know which one], and it makes since that you can finesse a Sword Cane. But I personally don't think its worth it for more than flavor, since a DC20 can easily be spotted at mid levels, and unless the character has a leg problem, you can get in serious trouble with it. Its still my favorite weapon, if I can get proficiency.
So, thinking I'll go with a Ninja build, with a single level of Ranger [Trapper/Freebooter] as of know, taking ranger at around level 3[after I get Ki Pool]. What would be a good starting trick? I know I want to pick up Vanishing trick, but I also kinda want to go with a TWF* build. Any advice as to the combat side [I figure I'll need quickdraw, and probably have a Spring-Loaded wrist sheath for more daggers]. Any really nice way to go for this.
TWF, swordcane and the sheath of the swordcane, if you modify it for combat.
Boom, you just became awesome.
The very first Pathfinder character I built (and my favorite) is of the same type, a Rogue/Knifefighter/Scout with a single level dip into a Ranger/Trapper/Wild Stalker to get trapfinding back, plus a free good perception bonus (Wild Stalker) to help even more trapfinding, and decent boost into saves, BAB, hit points.
Aside from the obvious "River Rat" trait for the +1 damage with daggers, I took "Hidden Hand":
"Your concealed weapons strike fast and true. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal light weapons and a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls when making an attack with a light weapon during a surprise round."
He'a a halfling with Craven, Lowblow and Fleet of Foot alternate racial traits (fast, sneaky, and stealthy). He might be the best scout-type character I ever made and it makes for a pretty hard-hitting rogue for a little guy with small blade in his hand.
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By a fairly generous interpretation of the rules, the combination of the Quick Draw feat and the "Hidden Weapons" ninja trick allows you to draw a concealed weapon as a free action. (And adds your rogue/ninja level to conceal checks.)
The idea is that the ninja trick allows you to draw hidden weapons "as a move action", and Quick Draw lets you draw weapons "as a free action instead of a move action". It's pretty iffy, and definitely in "ask your GM" territory, but I don't think it's a terribly big deal to allow it.
Also, combine this with Deft Palm and you can practically walk around armed without anyone even noticing.
Being able to conceal your weapons so easily might seem like a pointless trick, but it can really help with bluffing your way out of trouble, as plausibility actually affects your Bluff roll.
Quick edit to say: A halfling Knife Master with Quick Draw, Hidden Weapons, Deft Palm, and the Childlike feat would make a horrifyingly effective assassin.
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So, just got some info about the campaign I'm in. The Trap Finder campaign trait is definitely not allowed as we are playing Carrion Crown, I said I'd fill the rogue role, we have 150 start gold, and we are rolling stats. I got
18
15
15
14
13
12
for the rolls before racial modifiers, and can be moved around.
I believe all the PFS races are open, and beyond that I must check with the GM, but I think just going with a PFS-legal race is best.
@TGMaxMaster:The ranger advice is something to consider. If I am going with a ninja [or, for that matter, a switch-hitter], I probably will take the second level for Precise Shot. It does weaken my will save progression, which I know is a bad thing for this campaign.
@Zwordsman:Blinkback belt is neat if I am going for a pure-ranged thrower build, but I would prefer a bit of melee, just to make flanking easier, and the belt takes the place of a Dex-booster.
@Tengu Verymuch:Wasn't sure about River Rat, since I'm still unsure about what weapons I will use, but Hidden Hand looks really good, thanks for the advice.
@Chris P. Bacon:I'll ask my GM about the Hidden Weapons+Quick Draw, but if nothing else, it will save me needing Quick Draw to get my weapons out in combat. I had figured that I'd want Deft Palm.
So, any particular advice as to a good race? How about stat placement? Still not sold on Ninja, Core Rogue, or Knifemaster, which of these would be better?
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Also, with such a high Slight of Hand, could the feat Well-Prepared be worth it? It seems neat, but I'm not sure how useful it would be since you can't get magic items.
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Also, anyone have experience with the Underhanded rogue talent? Thought it looked cool earlier in the build, but now I'm not sure if it works unless you are initiating the surprise round or are a Bandit rogue[which I'm not so sure I want to be, due to the backstory I am working up]. And could going Shadowdancer PrC be worth it for some cool abilities? I've heard some amazing things about it by some of the guys in the campaign, but it seems a bit feat-taxey to me.
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Not sure if spring loaded wrist sheath was mentioned, but I believe it's in the ultimate equipment book.
I played a shadowdancer, it was a lot of fun suddenly stealthing mid combat while being observed. Shadowstepping and having a strength draining shadow was pretty awesome.
I'll warn you just about 1 thing, surprise rounds do not happen often. At least in the games I've played.
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So, a slight change in the plan. It turns out that the group needs some way of dealing with swarms and crowd controlling, so I said I'd make an alchemist/rogue to help with that. So, could alchemist do this well? I kinda want to be a bit of a switch-hitter alchemist, and not completely focus on feral mutagen [I like the hidden dagger stuff].
So, any good advice for this? Could Crypt Breaker archetype be worth it [for Carrion Crown specifically, since I know there are a lot of constructs/corporeal undead]?