reach weapon flurry of blows

[gourry187]

Can a monk weilding a Kama, double-chanined make his flurry with reach two handed?

[DragoDorn]

gourry187 wrote:

Can a monk weilding a Kama, double-chanined make his flurry with reach two handed?

I'd say by raw, no.

'This weapon comprises a pair of kama connected with an 8-foot length of chain.

Benefit: The wielder can attack as if armed with a single kama in each hand or extend the chain to make a single reach attack. By swinging the rope, the wielder can whip the kama about to disarm or trip opponents. Furthermore, if one of the weapons is dropped, the wielder can retrieve as a free action by pulling on the chain.'

[fretgod99]

DragoDorn wrote:

gourry187 wrote:

Can a monk weilding a Kama, double-chanined make his flurry with reach two handed?

I'd say by raw, no.

'This weapon comprises a pair of kama connected with an 8-foot length of chain.

Benefit: The wielder can attack as if armed with a single kama in each hand or extend the chain to make a single reach attack. By swinging the rope, the wielder can whip the kama about to disarm or trip opponents. Furthermore, if one of the weapons is dropped, the wielder can retrieve as a free action by pulling on the chain.'

That language means to treat it like a double weapon with no reach (two attacks) or a reach weapon (single attack). Since you can retrieve the extended kama as a free action, you ought to be able to make multiple (whether just BAB or otherwise) attacks with it each round.

Conceivably, the number of free actions could be limited by the GM. But using this weapon as intended does not seem to be an abuse of action economy.

[Nefreet]

As long as the weapon has reach, and is a weapon that can be used in conjunction with Flurry of Blows, you're good.

A medium-sized Monk that drinks a potion of Enlarge Person can Flurry with his natural reach.

A 6th level Sohei can Flurry with polearms, if they so choose.

I'd think this double-chained Kama would work just as well.

[Prusik]

gourry187 wrote:

Can a monk weilding a Kama, double-chanined make his flurry with reach two handed?

I have just made a lvl1 Flowing Monk. I have a few confusions with this related post. Sorry for the long post. :)

.1. Kama, double chained. In the core book, Monk is stated as proficient with "Kama". Is the "Kama, double chained" qualifies as "Kama" hence doesn't take the negative to Attack roll?

---Note--- I read the ruling about a "monk" weapon doesn't mean that the monk is proficient with it or not. That "monk" weapon feature is only for flurry purpose.

My home GM accepts it as a Kama. But this PC is for PFS; so I would like a clarification for future campaigns.

.2. Now using the Kama as an example is confusing. What about Kyoketsu shoge, or Kusarigama? They both have reach, and monk features. Can a monk flurry with those at reach (10ft) range?

.3. Trip + Reach + Flurry = ?
Now, it is clearly stated in the CRB, that you can use trip as an attack in flurry.
And we all know that you can trip+reach.
A monk can also attack multiple targets in a flurry, as with full attack.

So....My monk should be able to flurry trip multiple targets with a "monk", "reach" weapon (chained kama, Kusarigama, Kyoketsu shoge).

Now, if question 2's answer is a yes; this combo would give you an insane tripping monk with 10ft range, and still can melee.

Let's not even mention that my monk is a flowing monk. :)

[reyyvin]

gourry187 wrote:

Can a monk weilding a Kama, double-chanined make his flurry with reach two handed?

Absolutely. Do note that FoB has been errataed so that you can strike every blow with the same, single weapon. In the case of a Double chained Kama, you keep it with reach, and make each attack with the same end.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9pyx

A double-chained kama is a monk weapon, however, because it is exotic, you don't automatically get proficiency with it. For PFS, you would be required to take an exotic weapon proficiency for it, or have something else that gave you proficiency, like being a Half-elf or Tengu taking appropriate alternate racial traits.

Prusik...

As long as the weapon has the 'monk' descriptor, it can be used with Flurry of Blows - you just need to find a way to get proficiency or you have an extra -4 hit. Reach weapons work - they're really awesome because you STILL threaten with your unarmed strike. Just remember that you do NOT do 1.5x strength damage with your 2-handed weapons when you Flurry.

Nothing in the FoB description says you cannot use reach weapons, just 'monk' weapons

So yes, your combo works.

[Pupsocket]

Prusik wrote:

.1. Kama, double chained. In the core book, Monk is stated as proficient with "Kama". Is the "Kama, double chained" qualifies as "Kama" hence doesn't take the negative to Attack roll?

My home GM accepts it as a Kama. But this PC is for PFS; so I would like a clarification for future campaigns.

No, weapon names are specific.

Sling Staff is not a Sling. Repeating Light Crossbow is not a Light Crossbow. Composite Longbow is not a Longbow (except it comes with a specific exception). Double-Chained Kama is not a Kama.

Prusik wrote:

So....My monk should be able to flurry trip multiple targets with a "monk", "reach" weapon (chained kama, Kusarigama, Kyoketsu shoge).

Yes.

[Partizanski]

Prusik wrote:

Now, if question 2's answer is a yes; this combo would give you an insane tripping monk with 10ft range, and still can melee.

Let's not even mention that my monk is a flowing monk. :)

I have a retired flowing monk in PFS that does exactly this. I took a dip of unarmed fighter for proficiency and getting dragon ferocity feat without needing stunning fist.

If you ever fight a large amount of weak enemies, its a blast tripping 6+ enemies in one round (counting attacks of oppurtunity)

[Prusik]

Thanks for the answers, guys. :)

[Kazaan]

Pupsocket wrote:

Prusik wrote:

.1. Kama, double chained. In the core book, Monk is stated as proficient with "Kama". Is the "Kama, double chained" qualifies as "Kama" hence doesn't take the negative to Attack roll?

My home GM accepts it as a Kama. But this PC is for PFS; so I would like a clarification for future campaigns.

No, weapon names are specific.

Sling Staff is not a Sling. Repeating Light Crossbow is not a Light Crossbow. Composite Longbow is not a Longbow (except it comes with a specific exception). Double-Chained Kama is not a Kama.

The DC Kama also has a specific exception; it is wielded as if you have a single Kama in each hand, as an exception to the general rule of how you typically wield a double weapon. The fact that they are connected by a chain is inconsequential so you only need to consider proficiency with this particular weapon if you intend to use it as a reach weapon. This also means that, since Kama are light weapons, you can finesse the two kama when wielded individually (unlike standard double weapons), though you can't finesse it when using it 2-h as a reach weapon.

[Prusik]

Kazaan wrote:

This also means that, since Kama are light weapons, you can finesse the two kama when wielded individually (unlike standard double weapons), though you can't finesse it when using it 2-h as a reach weapon.

I don't use it to attack, I only use it to trip people. So Agile Maneuver > Finesse. :)