Paladin and Coup De Grace


Rules Questions


What would Iomadae say to a Paladin of hers, if he Coup de Graces Color Sprayed kobolds that are unharmed but unconscious?


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Assuming you rolled initiative and the Kobold was evil and engaged in battle before being Color Sprayed....

I don't see the problem.


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Let me expand.

Paladin Code of Iomadae wrote:

• I will learn the weight of my sword. Without my heart to guide it, it is worthless—my strength is not in my sword, but in my heart. If I lose my sword, I have lost a tool. If I betray my heart, I have died.

• I will have faith in the Inheritor. I will channel her strength through my body. I will shine in her legion, and I will not tarnish her glory through base actions.

• I am the first into battle, and the last to leave it.

• I will not be taken prisoner by my free will. I will not surrender those under my command.

• I will never abandon a companion, though I will honor sacrifice freely given.

• I will guard the honor of my fellows, both in thought and deed, and I will have faith in them.

• When in doubt, I may force my enemies to surrender, but I am responsible for their lives.

• I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest.

• I will suffer death before dishonor.

• I will be temperate in my actions and moderate in my behavior. I will strive to emulate Iomedae's perfection.

No where in there is anything about dispatching an evil enemy who engaged you in combat being wrong. The closest is being responsible for captured enemies.

I play a Paladin of Iomadae in my game right now; I keep this with me at all times.


I think it's OK.

It will be like honoroble death from sword with heroic stance of warrior, not a sneaky cutthroating, but it can be.


Static Hamster, where is the code from? Link?

Sczarni

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

[peeks head around corner]

...please don't start another Paladin alignment question thread, they tend to get messy...

[/peeks]


http://alharadnd.wikidot.com/paladins-of-iomedae

I don't know if it's a reputable source or not; Codes are just flavor text anyway and when I read those tenants listed above I agreed with them.

Not all Paladin's are the same, not all Codes are the same.

My Paladin is a Paladin 2/Sorcerer 3/Dragon Disciple 3. She was shunned from her Order for her demonic bloodline and horrific fighting style (She has Eldritch Heritage(Abyssal) and fights with Claw and Bite attacks rather than conventional weapons). She was only shunned because she did not lose her powers and therefore Iomadae still accepted her as one of her Champions. Out of all her tenants she struggles with the last one the most.

I don't try to play an alignment, I try to play a person who generally falls into Lawful Good and follows her Code to the best of her ability. Sometimes she may question something that comes up in game play, make a choice but ask for guidance from The Lady during her morning prayers.


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Good lord, no.

A Paladin does not fall if he kills an enemy.

A Paladin does not fall if he gambles.

A Paladin does not fall if he drinks.

A Paladin does not fall if he hires prostitutes.

A Paladin does not fall if he is an a#!!$#!.

A Paladin does not fall if he eats breakfast on Tuesdays.

He falls if he Lies, Uses Poison, Ceases to Be Lawful Good, or Willingly Commits an Evil Act.

That's it.

Why is that such a hard concept for people?


The paladin's code of Iomedae comes from PZO9416 - Faiths of Purity, page 26, second column.


Rynjin wrote:

Good lord, no.

A Paladin does not fall if he kills an enemy.

A Paladin does not fall if he gambles.

A Paladin does not fall if he drinks.

A Paladin does not fall if he hires prostitutes.

A Paladin does not fall if he is an a!+%~!#.

A Paladin does not fall if he eats breakfast on Tuesdays.

He falls if he Lies, Uses Poison, Ceases to Be Lawful Good, or Willingly Commits an Evil Act.

That's it.

Why is that such a hard concept for people?

What if he eats green eggs on a train, on a box, and with a fox: Does he fall now?


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Rynjin wrote:
Why is that such a hard concept for people?

Because many people are trying to play alignments....not people.

Because people treat alignments as absolutes not spectrum's.

Because people who play games want set rules for when something happens, not to make judgement calls; which is what alignment questions are.


Rynjin wrote:

Good lord, no.

A Paladin does not fall if he kills an enemy.

A Paladin does not fall if he gambles.

A Paladin does not fall if he drinks.

A Paladin does not fall if he hires prostitutes.

A Paladin does not fall if he is an a~+#~~$.

A Paladin does not fall if he eats breakfast on Tuesdays.

He falls if he Lies, Uses Poison, Ceases to Be Lawful Good, or Willingly Commits an Evil Act.

That's it.

Why is that such a hard concept for people?

He also falls if he cheats, and doesn't help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), or punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

The Code of Conduct is pretty easy to follow.


Starbuck_II wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

Good lord, no.

A Paladin does not fall if he kills an enemy.

A Paladin does not fall if he gambles.

A Paladin does not fall if he drinks.

A Paladin does not fall if he hires prostitutes.

A Paladin does not fall if he is an a!+%~!#.

A Paladin does not fall if he eats breakfast on Tuesdays.

He falls if he Lies, Uses Poison, Ceases to Be Lawful Good, or Willingly Commits an Evil Act.

That's it.

Why is that such a hard concept for people?

What if he eats green eggs on a train, on a box, and with a fox: Does he fall now?

You know, I was going to go for a green eggs and ham thing to begin with but couldn't make it fit.

Our minds are eerily similar sometimes.


Static Hamster wrote:

Assuming you rolled initiative and the Kobold was evil and engaged in battle before being Color Sprayed....

I don't see the problem.

Why should it matter whether he's battled the Kobold before?

Either it's a violation because the enemy is helpless or it's not.


Eh, the paladin isn't a follower of either Sarenrae or Shelyn, so he's fine.

Grand Lodge

If the paladin is in no doubt that her enemies deserve to die and are a threat to her charges while they live, killing them when temporarily knocked out (or when begging for their lives after they find themselves outmatched, for that matter) is consistent with the code. Being colour sprayed =/= paladin offering them surrender.


It comes down to the player's role playing of it. If it were me playing my current character, but turned into a paladin rather than... whatever you wanna call him... I'd be OK with it if it killed off kobolds terrorizing innocent people. If I were to use the last character I made's personality I'd not be cool with the idea because of the fact he preferred diplomacy and prisoners over bloodshed. On a matter like this it comes down to how/if the paladin justifies his actions to his deity, or at least that is how I'd run it if I was DMing during a situation like this.

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