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by using the day they rest to replace the enemies they just killed. they may have cleared the first room or two, but they will be upset when rooms one and two are restocked and the security is tighter.
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Wandering monsters (especially ambushing their camp site), plus competing groups aiming for the same goals. You can even combine those elements.
Also, it's frankly ridiculous from an RP point of view, so you're in your good right to penalize the xp they get.
Last but not least, logistics. Taking a day's rest after 1 encounter each day means they spend a lot of time, ie a lot of food and water, lamp oil, etc. Enforce them tracking those resources every bloody day. Encumbrance will quickly start to bite.
If the encounters are just stat blocks which sit around and wait to die, and don't react to the PCs' choices, then of course the five-minute adventuring day is a solid plan.
But if the encounters adapt to them, and the dungeon isn't just a bunch of stationary stat blocks (I'm envisioning Dredd all of a sudden), then the nova-rest strategy might not work so well.
-Matt
Sorry, Devilbunny, I have no ham!
... but in answer to your actual post, I tend to up the # of "pro active encounters" (ie the encounters come looking for the PCs instead of waiting for the PCs to come to them) when PCs "Nova" / "6-round adventuring day" too much.
-TimD
I typically use random encounters, wandering monsters, time limits, etc. But every once in awhile, I have to get creative...
Convert some of the more interesting wild magic spells from 2E and use them. It's incredibly hard to nova when the spellcaster in the other party just guaranteed that it's anyone's guess what your spell will actually do.
Interactive monsters or encounters like people have suggested. Sure the can nova the first group, then have the next group come after them that night. Or in a few rounds if they heard the noise.
Have the monsters set traps or warnings so they can surprise or go nova on the PCs.
Basically, at most levels, you can control how many encounters the PCs have in one day.
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Well, typically we deploy a Bussard ramscoop array to collect the hydrogen accreting from the red giant companion before the white dwarf-
{glances up at other responses} Ah, never mind.
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Just like the title says, what do you do when you DM and you have a party that likes to expend all their resources rapidly before saying 'Whew, that was a good day of work we put in fellas', time to rest now," despite the fact that only 15 minutes have passed and they've only blown through one encounter.
Just because they rest doesn't mean their enemies have to.
When an Ooze coup de graces one of them in the night, they might rethink their plan.
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It depends.
In a typical dungeon scenario, make the place "living". It's not okay to just close a room up and take a rest. Things move around and open doors. Things come through walls. Walls come down. Stuff happens.
In a city environment where PCs go to a tavern, make the place "living". Have the place robbed. Let there be a midnight fire that nearly burns the place down and they have to save folks. Maybe a recurring enemy has framed them for a crime and they're dragged out of bed at night.
In the great outdoors, make the place "living". Camping most of a 24-hour period in one place is a great way to draw attention from wildlife. Sure, the innocent little bunnies might be scared away, but bears and wyverns and dragons and advanced-hit-dice-fiendish-giant-half-balor-crocodiles come running to grab the grub while the grabbing is hot. Snakes like tents. Succubii like tents even more.
See a theme here?
If your players really, honestly run out of resources because they had to use them, relax. Let them rest. But if they're deliberately abusing some mechanics because they think you'll just let them, well, don't.
It's a careful balance. Nobody likes an interrupted night but if your players have discovered they can just use their most powerful abilities against the most minor encounters because they are assured a rest, that is what you should stop.
Just like the title says, what do you do when you DM and you have a party that likes to expend all their resources rapidly before saying 'Whew, that was a good day of work we put in fellas', time to rest now," despite the fact that only 15 minutes have passed and they've only blown through one encounter.Just because they rest doesn't mean their enemies have to.
When an Ooze coup de graces one of them in the night, they might rethink their plan.
Oozes can climb ropes?
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Make time meaningful. If the PCs have substantial resources that recharge daily then make them accomplish more in a day.
Throw a wave of creatures at them as opposed to a singel creature. The funny thing about most classes capable of going NOVA, they are usually very limited in targets (most are single target like Magus).
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Honestly, my best advice is don't. At least don't prevent novas all the time, because that quickly becomes "Ho hum can't rest til GM says..." Time sensitive stuff is a good way to get around novaing, but it needs to be using sparingly. Pro-active enemies are a much better way, though again this shouldn't turn into "Ok we make camp. Suddenly Ninjas." but even if they aren't attacking the PCs the enemy should always be trying to accomplish something (if reasonable). And remember, an enemy that hasn't had to burn an resources can nova to...
Finally, accept that you really can't stop it, at least not at high levels. At that point though the PCs should be driving the story anyway making this less of an issue.
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There's a catch 22 here.
on one hand... nobody really WANTS to blow through their whole spell list/wand/potion in the first battle. On the other hand, nobody wants to be the guy who died holding onto those resources for 'later'.
We regularly mock all the corpses we find with 2 healing potions and a teleport scroll on them. Then we loot them :P
Pathfinder did a pretty good job nerfing the 15 minute day with their spell preparation rules. It's a lot harder to get spells back now... in 2E we were ALWAYS stopping for 20.... 40... 120 minutes to 'rememorize' that spell used, but here you kinda just have to deal with it.
I think the best ways to keep people from camping every other room... is to make it more dangerous to do so. The BBEG has a hostage.... there's a timelimit... the castle is not really secure... Something that motivates the players 'in character' to keep moving.
Don't stop the novas. Just throw encounters at them to encourage them to blow resources before reaching the BBEG. There's many creatures in the game that are most dangerous in a prolonged fight -- creatures that should be killed immediately or avoided. These include basilisks, rust monsters, energy drain undead, and anything else that has a save or a die effect or something that can do long term damage. These creatures will die fast to novas, but not killing them instantly can be more costly.
To stop them from having 15 minute adventuring days, design the adventure such that camping or leaving would be impractical. If the party is infiltrating the bad guy's fortress, they can't exactly find a closet to camp inside.
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Oozes can climb ropes?Just like the title says, what do you do when you DM and you have a party that likes to expend all their resources rapidly before saying 'Whew, that was a good day of work we put in fellas', time to rest now," despite the fact that only 15 minutes have passed and they've only blown through one encounter.Just because they rest doesn't mean their enemies have to.
When an Ooze coup de graces one of them in the night, they might rethink their plan.
Honest question: why do you want to prevent novas?
Honest question: why do you want to prevent novas?
Because when over-used, novaing is boring. Having the PCs go all out in every fight is tedious and requires you to scale up encounters drastically to compensate for it.
Honest question: why do you want to prevent novas?Because when over-used, novaing is boring. Having the PCs go all out in every fight is tedious and requires you to scale up encounters drastically to compensate for it.
Plus, it causes them to take longer in adventures and can cause a dungeon to drag on and on. Speaking both from GM and player experience.
Honest question: why do you want to prevent novas?
Balance. If you allow characters to nova without there being some sort of drawback to it (like being exhausted and unable to meaningfully participate in combat) you're allowing them an effectively greater level of power than those that cannot.
Also, by allowing characters to nova and rest you must make combats more deadly to deal with a specific character, which also respectively makes other characters effectively weaker because of one players actions.
Ban casters, barbarians, and anything else with tracked recourses per day.
It works, even if it is by having everyone leave the table.
One approach that I think is cool is Broken Zenith's in Jacob's Tower. Sleeping in dangerous magical places calls for a save vs. some nastiness, which provides an incentive to rest less if you can.
One approach that I think is cool is Broken Zenith's in Jacob's Tower. Sleeping in dangerous magical places calls for a save vs. some nastiness, which provides an incentive to rest less if you can.
Haven't read it but I'll bet GP to SP that resting in Rope Trick gets around it.
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....Only you can prevent Nova Fires...
I try to design encounters that will use up all their resources whether they nova or not. . . combat lasted 14 rounds last session.
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....Only you can prevent Nova Fires...
But what about Yoga Fires?
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One of my old players used to blow through his low level mages spells in just a few rooms...third or fourth time he did it the rest of the players quietly refused to let him "rest"...at crossbow point and all in character they threatened to let the thief use him to set off hallway traps if he did it again.
Now, my players mage tends to cast both tactically and frugally...and hoard pearls of power!!!
....Only you can prevent Nova Fires...But what about Yoga Fires?
Hey I think they make a cream for that now.
For that uncomfortable itchy burning sensation use Yoga Cream!
Taking multiple days to clear a dungeon? Blasphemy! Then again our group has the mythic resting ability where casters can just sit for an hour to gain back all their spells at the cost of a mythic point.
As a player, I'd prefer something that felt like the interruption was a natural way for things to happen. As was mentioned earlier, dungeons should have patrols and creatures moving about. Being interrupted in a dungeon is completely believable. Adding time elements also helps. If they need to resolve the situation within a few hours, resting for 8 isn't an option.
But be careful about forcing the situation. If the players have a rope trick or some other camping spell with an 8 hour duration, let them have it. If you keep lighting the inn on fire or raiding their camp, they'll feel like they're being coerced. I am a pretty willing player. If I can tell the DM wants me to explore a dungeon or talk to an NPC, I do so. But if I feel the DM is forcing me to play my character the way he wants me to, I stop having fun.
I don't prevent novas. If one of my players feels confortable with nova pcs, I let them go. My adventuring days are almost never a 1/day encounter. I usually throw at least a couple of encounters per day, when I decide to make them fight.
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I don't prevent novas. I just balance the fight with the expectation that they HAVE to go nova to survive. Then throw at them one other fight or two so that the less novaing character will have their moment to shine when everyone else is depleted.
I don't prevent novas. I just balance the fight with the expectation that they HAVE to go nova to survive. Then throw at them one other fight or two so that the less novaing character will have their moment to shine when everyone else is depleted.
This is probably the best way to handle the situation, but it takes a lot of experience to be able to set up encounters that will challenge the nova character and convince them to use up their abilities (without overwhelming other players) and then have some weaker encounters for non-nova characters to shine.
It's not something that is easy for a new or novice GM to achieve.
Careful I've seen posts that some people think you shouldn't be able to do that.Taking multiple days to clear a dungeon? Blasphemy! Then again our group has the mythic resting ability where casters can just sit for an hour to gain back all their spells at the cost of a mythic point.
Kind-of explicitly says you can...
First question: Do all of the characters nova and want to rest? If so, it is not such a big deal to me. It is mostly an issue when it is only some of them.
Second question: Did you make the nova fight so tough that the players had no choice except to nova? I had a GM do that once. Every fight was either all-out-nova or characters died. But then he would be upset that we save anything to proceed.
(Related question: did the players honestly think the fight was so tough that the players had no choice except to nova?)
I'm not too big on random encounters.
But if they hit some place and retreated. Things will change and something more alert is probably in the part they cleared. Patrols/guards. Owlbear moved in. Black pudding is slurping up the corpses. Whatever.
If they hit some place and hunker down, that seems even worse. Someone will come by to see why the guards didn't check in. Some dark mantles will be attracted by the scent of blood. Usually something.
I find this usually happens at all. Players rarely nova and want to rest right after. The reason is because in party of 4 it only take one player to nova an encounter, the other 3 are still unharmed and loaded up with resources. They don't want to rest, they want to explore gaining loot and experience. Resting after each encounter just slows the game too much in some cases.
When does situation like this even come up. If the fight takes all 4 players expending all of their limited resources for the day then that is one really tough fight and they should rest. I mean it's pretty hard to blow all resources in 1 encounter except for maybe 1st level and that's just plain dangerous.
It is not usual for me. But I have been in groups where everyone max buffs before every fight if they have the chance then starts every encounter with the most powerful ability they have. This continues every round until over.
On time 6th level characters cast several buff spells including haste and delay poison then used a fireball and stone call on a room containing 3 stupid large spiders.
Then of course they were worried about what to do next.
I usually make most encounters somewhat easy starting out. It strongly discourages nova/rest cycles. You just used 4 spells and your arcane pool to turn that goblin shaman into a fine red mist... Grats.
Making encounters solvable without nova style play is the key to preventing novas. When you make encounters too hard, or hard enough that not going all out actually uses more resources (as in having to remove negative levels and the death condition), you encourage the 15 minute adventuring day.
When it comes time for a boss fight, or a mini boss fight, sure, let them go all out. But since they had to use some minor stuff getting there they might have some holes in their "optimal" battle preparations. Follow up a tough boss fight with a relatively easier angry pet/spouse/minion attack. "You killed my X, now you must die!" encounters are surprisingly effective even if the fight is easy on paper, the PCs are at their weakest. Its a good way of reminding them that Nova style play has a cost.