Sno-Cone Wish Machine


Rules Questions

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Arcanist is tier 1 to Summoners Tier 2, but keep in mind that's merely saying that an Arcanist has *more* ways to break a game then a Summoner. I actually like Occultist Arcanists, since the odd level scaling of the Summon Monster Ability (which you can effectively convert *all* your spell slots to the highest level version) helps to offset the Arcanists low spells per day and Sorcerer speed spell progression.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

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Removed a few posts and replies to them. Intentionally trying to start an argument, bait other posters, and throwing around personal insults really has no place here.


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Mathius wrote:

It was meant as a joke. He does a very good job pointing the issue with a summoner.

What do you all feel about the arcanist in relation to the summoner.

I don't feel qualified to answer that as I've spent little to no time perusing the classes from the advanced player's guide. The playtest arcanist looked pretty ridiculous due to certain specific arcanas that they get (and still get AFAIK), but as I haven't really bothered to dig into them (and haven't had any players in any of my groups ready to jump into one) I'm not really the one to ask.

Aratrok has more experience with the ACG classes and I usually differ to him when someone asks about ACG classes. There are some things that I find interesting about the arcanist and so I might look into it more deeply at a later time (the skald seemed pretty interesting at first glance as well).

Psionics has been stealing most of my attention in game though. Most of the time when I want to play a caster I find myself wandering off to a psionic character (usually psion, but vitalists and wilders are cool too) because I generally find them more fun mechanically (note I didn't say more powerful) and ideal for the themes of magic I'm looking for in my characters, but the hybrid prepared/spontaneous bit might make the arcanist worth looking into sometime in the future.

However, I've been spending a lot of time at work lately and also have some other priorities (I've got a few character concepts in que without a game for them yet, there's a game I'm running when I can, working on a rogue rewrite, the warlock for Kryzbyn, some monster rewrites, need to check the dates for RPG superstar because I actually remembered it this year and submitted a thing, and make time to hang out with friends & family :P) but we'll see.


Ashiel wrote:
Mathius wrote:

It was meant as a joke. He does a very good job pointing the issue with a summoner.

What do you all feel about the arcanist in relation to the summoner.

I don't feel qualified to answer that as I've spent little to no time perusing the classes from the advanced player's guide. The playtest arcanist looked pretty ridiculous due to certain specific arcanas that they get (and still get AFAIK), but as I haven't really bothered to dig into them (and haven't had any players in any of my groups ready to jump into one) I'm not really the one to ask.

Aratrok has more experience with the ACG classes and I usually differ to him when someone asks about ACG classes. There are some things that I find interesting about the arcanist and so I might look into it more deeply at a later time (the skald seemed pretty interesting at first glance as well).

Psionics has been stealing most of my attention in game though. Most of the time when I want to play a caster I find myself wandering off to a psionic character (usually psion, but vitalists and wilders are cool too) because I generally find them more fun mechanically (note I didn't say more powerful) and ideal for the themes of magic I'm looking for in my characters, but the hybrid prepared/spontaneous bit might make the arcanist worth looking into sometime in the future.

However, I've been spending a lot of time at work lately and also have some other priorities (I've got a few character concepts in que without a game for them yet, there's a game I'm running when I can, working on a rogue rewrite, the warlock for Kryzbyn, some monster rewrites, need to check the dates for RPG superstar because I actually remembered it this year and submitted a thing, and make time to hang out with friends & family :P) but we'll see.

Arcanist is probably tier 1, but beneath the Wizard. It turned out to not be as strong as was feared.

The Shaman on the other hand lets you cross Cleric out of your book and never look back. While pilfering it's spell list. And the Wizard/Sorcerer list. And a hex from the Witch. With some spontaneous casting. With a Flexible Domain. And flexible hexes. Not to mention the d8 HD, the 3/4th BAB and 4+Int Skill points. Oh sure it loses good Fort save. But can Channel and Domains really top all that? I humbly submit that it cannot.

Dark Archive

Anzyr wrote:
The Shaman on the other hand lets you cross Cleric out of your book and never look back. While pilfering it's spell list. And the Wizard/Sorcerer list. And a hex from the Witch. With some spontaneous casting. With a Flexible Domain. And flexible hexes. Not to mention the d8 HD, the 3/4th BAB and 4+Int Skill points. Oh sure it loses good Fort save. But can Channel and Domains really top all that? I humbly submit that it cannot.

The shaman has some serious MAD issues:

Quote:

Arcane Enlightenment (Su): The shaman's native intelligence grants her the ability to tap into arcane lore. The shaman can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman spells she can prepare. To cast these spells she must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell's level, but the saving throw DCs of these spells are based on her Wisdom rather than Intelligence. When she casts these spells, they are treated as divine rather than arcane. Each time the shaman gains a level after taking this hex, she can choose to replace one of these spells for a new spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list.


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Jadeite wrote:
Anzyr wrote:
The Shaman on the other hand lets you cross Cleric out of your book and never look back. While pilfering it's spell list. And the Wizard/Sorcerer list. And a hex from the Witch. With some spontaneous casting. With a Flexible Domain. And flexible hexes. Not to mention the d8 HD, the 3/4th BAB and 4+Int Skill points. Oh sure it loses good Fort save. But can Channel and Domains really top all that? I humbly submit that it cannot.

The shaman has some serious MAD issues:

Quote:
Arcane Enlightenment (Su): The shaman's native intelligence grants her the ability to tap into arcane lore. The shaman can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman spells she can prepare. To cast these spells she must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell's level, but the saving throw DCs of these spells are based on her Wisdom rather than Intelligence. When she casts these spells, they are treated as divine rather than arcane. Each time the shaman gains a level after taking this hex, she can choose to replace one of these spells for a new spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list.

That's not really that special. Just means she needs 19 Int by 9th level casting. That's trivial. The DCs being based on Wisdom is also a pretty sweet deal (Wisdom being a save boosting stat and all).

Now I'm curious. I might go check out the shaman when I get back from work.


EDIT Wrong thread. ^.^"


Fun times when that happens!


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Kirth Gersen wrote:


Finally, I'll re-submit that when DrDeth and I actually agree on something game-related, that something can probably be taken as gospel.

We agree with a lot of stuff Kirth, just that we both like to argue too much. We both love gaming, roleplaying, Pathfinder, and bunches of stuff. I respect your opinion on many things.


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Dr Deth performing thread necromancy. I suppose with a name like that, it was inevitable.


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Ooh, ooh, Mark has indicated this MAY just be the topic of the new FAQ!
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r7kg&page=44?Ask-Mark-Seifter-All-Your-Que stions-Here#2169

Let's hope!


Has this topic been forgotten? It used to be pretty high up on the number of requested FAQs?

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It is still in the works. Mark has mentioned the blog post he's been working on to address the issue.


Should come out in the next couple weeks! Been looking forward to this blog for a while.

Paizo Employee Designer

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MichaelCullen wrote:
Should come out in the next couple weeks! Been looking forward to this blog for a while.

From the office of expectation management: I never gave a timeframe, and I would be shocked to see it in the next couple weeks. It's true that I have a first draft, but that's not news.


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OK, so it's been a few months Mark, can we hope to see it soon?


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Still nothing. 3 years 51 FAQ hits.

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