What to do against an AC 30+ monk?


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Hello!

I'm quite new to the game despite some experience in D&D 3.0 10 years ago, which I have forgotten everything about, so please bear with me. Also I'm not from any english speaking country so there might be some grammatical mistakes here :) .
I started to play Pathfinder with a nice group in november last year and have been a PC for all that time and had cartloads of fun. We decided to change GMs soon though and it's my turn now and I will be facing a group at around level 6, which consists of a Shapechanger, a Barbarian, a Witch and the aforementioned monk. The first major hurdle the group has to take was supposed to be a small hidout/dungeon inhabiting only some constructs since the actual people that lived there vanished quite some time ago. Now to the problem that I think I will be facing: I created some golem type enemies at around CR6 that are supposed to roam the facility and which also are pretty much vital to a later door opening puzzle. These guys have 2 slam attacks with a +8 modifier and will be facing said monk with his almost permanent 30 something AC. What can I do to not ramp up the CR so significantly that monsters can hit that guy but will probably flatten the rest of the group but will still be ablo to hit him without rolling a natural 20?

I'd be especially interested in ways to make it interesting for this particular dungeon with just constructs in it but also I would have to do some serious thinking for the rest of the campaign so any suggestions how to deal with him in general would be greatly appreciated as well.

I've got an earlier character sheet of the monk here which has been changed a bit as far as my friend told me but it's basically the finished character that's present in the campaign minus some minor changes:

  • Qinggong Monk level 6, Dwarf, around 65 HP
  • St: 18 (20 through belt of giant strength)
  • Dex: 16
  • Con: 17
  • In: 8
  • Wis: 20 (22 through Headband of wisdom)
  • Cha: 6

  • Initiative: 7
  • AC: 24 (unbuffed, he has a Wand of mage armor and the barkskin ability and is able to buff his AC through Ki as far as I know)

As I said I don't want to kill him or anything, just provide a nice enough challenge for the whole group without everyone else getting slaughtered or him being a total superhero because basically no one can hit him except with spells.
Thanks and sorry for the long post! :)

Scarab Sages

Dispel Magic will remove the Barkskin and Mage Armor, bringing him back down to AC 24. Anything that targets Touch AC will bypass Armor and Natural Armor bonuses that he is getting from Mage Armor/Barkskin, so ray spells, firearms, and alchemical weapons are all good.

He will be flatfooted vs attacks from Invisible creatures, so that would be an additional -3.

As a Dwarf Monk with good Dex, Con, and Wis, his saves are going to be really high, so don't use spells that allow a save.


Walls. Just use a wizard to lock him off from the group with a wall (of ice, stone, fire, or force) and he can be ignored until he punches his way through.

Also, the idea of a contruct-dungeon is also good. Is this guy punching? If so, he is going to have one HELL of a time trying to get much damage through, since most contruct have great DR.

Dispel magic is also reliable. So is touch AC. You might be interested in evocation-focused "clockwork mages":
https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/bestiary/monster-listings/const ructs/clockwork/clockwork-mage
They can use magic missile at will. THey are quite a threat in numbers.

The problem with this guy is that anything that seriously threatens him will slaughter the rest of the party, since he's so defensive. Rather, use enemies that HE has a hard time hurting, and make him work around that.


Magic missile. Cmb vs cmd. Puzzles that AC cannot help with at all. Ignore him and attack his companions. If a character pigeonholes himself to only deal with combat, he forgets the bigger picture. What can he do outside of combat? Combat I think are for players to vent and have fun with. Story elements, puzzles, difficult decisions, etc are what the GM can employ to challenge the party to new levels. Then perhaps the players won't pigeonhole themselves to be combat monsters.

Do they have supplies to survive if there might be a collaspe in the ruins that might open an unexplored area or the dungeon, but closes off the main entrance. What now? AC 30 won't help. now.

Just my thoughts. Take it or leave it. If the players are having fun that's half the battle of running a game.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Give your golems basic DR. At 6th level the monk can't bypass anything other than magic, and if his AC is so stellar his damage is not going to be awesome. So DR 10/adamantine is going to most likely stop almost all of his attacks dead, and he'll waste time flailing at enemies that do not attack him but go after the party spellcasters.

The dispel magic is a good idea too, that will reduce his AC to a competative level and is a perfectly valid debuff tactic.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Swarms are another option.


Thanks for the advice so far. Just to add additional info about the character: He does 1d8+8 damage with his fists and also has really good saves for level 6, as you already stated Imbicatus, with Fort: 8, Reflex: 8 and Will: 11

The Clockwork mage sounds like a great idea, I guess that might be the solution for that particular dungeon.
I also like the solution to try find enemys that are hard to hit/hurt for the monk but not specifically for the others, will give it some thought for what's coming after the construct dungeon.

@ Aristin: He actually is really bad with basically everything that's not combat, climbing or acrobatics. He also has chosen a Drawback that let's animals attack him more likely than anyone else and also he can barely talk. The "boss" at the end of the dungeon should actually not be killed because he has an important plot device inside of him which would be destroyed, so I'm curious what the players will do. Though I really would like to have the Monk lose at least a couple HP before that "bossfight" happens :)

Scarab Sages

Nets are good. They target touch AC and entangled is a pretty serous debuff.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

If you have enemies using Ranged attacks, they may simply ignore this PC.


Dabbler wrote:

Give your golems basic DR. At 6th level the monk can't bypass anything other than magic, and if his AC is so stellar his damage is not going to be awesome. So DR 10/adamantine is going to most likely stop almost all of his attacks dead, and he'll waste time flailing at enemies that do not attack him but go after the party spellcasters.

Thanks, I will keep that in mind when changing the monsters in the dungeon!

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Swarms are another option.

I think there even is a swarmlike construct or else I'm confusing it with an undead creature I looked at afterwards, but thanks for the suggestion!

Imbicatus wrote:
Nets are good. They target touch AC and entangled is a pretty serous debuff.

This will come in very handy when the PC's will be having some encounters against pirates later in the campaign, I think nets fit really well into an fight with pirates :)


Anguy wrote:


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Swarms are another option.

I think there even is a swarmlike construct or else I'm confusing it with an undead creature I looked at afterwards, but thanks for the suggestion!

I do believe there's a clockwork swarm that can be found on the d20pfsrd. It's third-party, but it's quite similar to other swarms.

Scarab Sages

Anguy wrote:


Imbicatus wrote:
Nets are good. They target touch AC and entangled is a pretty serous debuff.
This will come in very handy when the PC's will be having some encounters against pirates later in the campaign, I think nets fit really well into an fight with pirates :)

If you are going to be in any swampy areas, Gripplis have racial proficiency in them too :)


Just make a few social encounters there he will be totally lost;)
but if that is no good, remember thar there is lots of thgings that can debuff him.
but he is a min maxed monk around the level where they are good if they can hit stuff. I suggest you let him have his superhero time. It dosent really matter if he is never hit, you plan on the heroes winning any way.
He will feel invulnerable and at some point he may grow overconfident:)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A few questions.
What is his exact build?
What feats/magic items?
How does he get +8 damage modifier?

All the suggestions so far are valid. DR, swarms, magic missile all can make life difficult for adventurers.

I also prefer put of combat options. If he is in the lead...then he can make that first critical skill check (diplomacy, bluff, finding the trap, etc.).

For combat concealment works pretty good. Smokesticks, Obscuring Mist. Flying creatures. If he fights bare-handed then use creatures that have damage auras such as ice golems (1d6 cold every time he hits one) or even the lowly burning/frost skeletons. And if the monk is doing a lot of damage, fine. He is still facing a bunch of monsters, even if he is taking one or two put each round, that leaves the other dozen to do what they want.

Use more monsters, not just big and tough ones. A bunch of the burning skeletons can surround the monk and then he takes 1d6 fire from each skeleton at the start of his turn.

Just don't overdo this. There should be a reason why the monk is being targeted. If a smart bad guy sees how tough the monk is, or even if the monk is getting famous/a reputation, that would be enough. And avoid making this GM vs. the players. You are telling the story, and the players are supposed to be heroes. Let them be the heroes. :)


I'm assuming the +8 damage comes from Dragon Style/Ferocity + AoMF or magic fang. Actually with Dragon Style/Ferocity, the first attack would be +9 and the second +7. Either way, he's averaging about 12.5 damage per attack, which with DR 10/Adamantine means about 2.5 will get through on average.

With respect to using constructs and ignoring the monk, do make sure that either a) the constructs are intelligent enough to figure out the monk is a wall (which is doubtful) or b) are being actively controlled by somebody who is.

All that being said, a dungeon full of constructs is also likely to have magical traps, including one with spells that do not allow saves (like magic missile, etc.)

In either event, the monk is likely to continue to have good defense, but will still be a bit limited offensively overall. In general just keep in mind that intelligent creatures will almost certainly figure out that attacking the monk is a losing proposition and will instead focus on the rest of the party first.

Just a side note too, his "drawback" really isn't a drawback with this build. With a high defense, he wants the creatures to attack him rather than his party members because they are likely to miss.

Also, if you had not said that English was not your first language, I never would have known. Frankly, you write better than most Americans. :p


He is a generally untouchable brick which is fairly boring to have in many melee encounters. There are a few ways to make melees a little more interesting.

Some monsters have spikes or fire or procupine quills or acid slime on their skin so that every time they get hit with natural attacks or unarmed strikes the attacker takes a little damage. For constructs this can be lightning auras, bladed spikes on the outside, etc. Make it small damage like 1d4 and he will wittle himself down in the combat.

Combat maneuvers can potentially work, grappling constructs with improved grapple feat mechanics instead of improved grab so they make touch attacks with no Attack of Opportunity is the way to go. Improved Grab will never hit to initiate the grapple.

Scarab Sages

Grab will give a +4 to grapple CMB checks even if you don't use grab to start the grapple. If the construct has DR it wont even need to worry about the AoO it provokes. I wouldn't add constrict to a grappler though, it will be too easy to accidentally TPK with a grapple beast designed for the monk if the the monk falls.


Rerednaw wrote:

A few questions.

What is his exact build?
What feats/magic items?
How does he get +8 damage modifier?

Since is sheet is in german, I hope I will get everything right:

Qinggong and Sacred Mountain Monk Level 6 with Vow of Truth
Abilitys are already stated above
CMB 11 CMD 29
Hits with fists with a bonus of 10 +8 damage seem to come from his Str modifier and the Amulet of mighty fists

Magic items:
Belt of Giant Strength (STR +2)
Headband of Wisdom (WIS + 2)
Amulet of mighty fists (+3 I guess, though it's not stated which modifier)
Wand of Cure light wounds
Wand of Magic Armor (Can he even use these wands as a monk?)

Feats and abilitys:
Some stuff that every monk gets
Things worth mentioning:
Elemental fist (can he even have this at level 6? From my understanding he can't)
Stunning fist
Dragon Style
Bastion stance
Vow of Truth
Trait: ki+1
Trait: if underground +2 on initiative, +1 critdmg
Major drawback: -2 on riding and handle animal, no take 10, animals attack him in favour of others.

I left out a bunch of things where I didn't know the exact name in english and things I deemed as usual attributes to monks that every one has on that level. If you'd like anything else just tell me. :)

Edit: Sorry guys I seem to take way to long with my replys. As soon as I post there's someone else who made a statement again. I'll try to be faster next time.
So @ Gargs, Imbicatus and Voadam: Thanks for the input I will try to keep all those things in mind.
A Golden Guardian should do the trick in terms of combat: Golden Guardian

Also I was originally trying to keep the dungeon relatively trapfree because none of the classes in the party right now can actually disarm them but maybe I will put some debuffing ones in then.


If he has Dragon Ferocity, he can take Elemental Fist, BUT, he can't get Ferocity until level 5, which means he couldn't take Fist until level 7.

Also, not sure how he is at AC 24 to start. His AC should be: 10 + 3(dex) + 6(wis) + 1(Monk) which is 20. Unless Sacred Mountain also gives him a +4 AC.

Scarab Sages

Wands he can use if he has Use Magic Device as a skill. His UMD check is going to be very low with a 6 CHA though. Otherwise, he cant use it, but he could give it to someone who can and have them cast on him.

He can get Elemental fist if he has Dragon Ferocity as well as Dragon Style, but unless is is a Master of Many Styles he wouldn't be able to have both at level 6.


Imbicatus wrote:

Wands he can use if he has Use Magic Device as a skill. His UMD check is going to be very low with a 6 CHA though. Otherwise, he cant use it, but he could give it to someone who can and have them cast on him.

He can get Elemental fist if he has Dragon Ferocity as well as Dragon Style, but unless is is a Master of Many Styles he wouldn't be able to have both at level 6.

Ok I might have to tell him to rebuild that part of his character then, even though level 7 won't take that long to get to.

@Gargs: I'm not sure on that part either. He has Dodge which gives him +1 but I have to ask him where the other three points are coming from.

Scarab Sages

The other three points are coming from Monk of the Sacred Mountain. It gives a +1 Natural AC bonus at level 2, and Iron Limb gives a +2 shield bonus, but only if he starts and ends his turn in the same square.

Quote:

Iron Limb Defense (Ex)

At 5th level, a monk of the sacred mountain can deflect blows with an active defense that complements his bastion stance. If the monk starts and ends his turn in the same space, he gains a +2 shield bonus to AC and CMD until the start of his next turn. As a swift action, he can spend 1 ki point to increase this bonus to +4.

This ability replaces high jump.

Dark Archive

In a world of 45-point builds dwarven monks can be hard to stop :).

In seriousness, monks are typically all about survivability. High ACs and High Saves = difficult to kill. Let it be for now; their AC doesn't really keep going up much beyond this... at higher levels 30s won't be hard to beat out.

His damage output should be good (largely because 20 strength with all of these other things) but not overpowering. Consider having stronger enemies move past him in favor of squishier targets; this probably will have the residual effect of giving him only 1 attack for the round.

If the rest of the party is also a 45-point build you'll need to up difficulty encounters.


Thalin wrote:

In a world of 45-point builds dwarven monks can be hard to stop :).

In seriousness, monks are typically all about survivability. High ACs and High Saves = difficult to kill. Let it be for now; their AC doesn't really keep going up much beyond this... at higher levels 30s won't be hard to beat out.

His damage output should be good (largely because 20 strength with all of these other things) but not overpowering. Consider having stronger enemies move past him in favor of squishier targets; this probably will have the residual effect of giving him only 1 attack for the round.

If the rest of the party is also a 45-point build you'll need to up difficulty encounters.

Could you elaborate a bit more on 45 point builds? I'm not familiar with the term. :)

We just rolled the ability scores after the standard system so 4d6 and discard the lowest one.


43-point buy... yes, as Thalin said, if the rest of the group is similar on stats, you might as well drop all CRs by 1, at least when calculating challenges.

However - I think you've got potentially a perfect opportunity to let the monk shine.

  • Setup a complex puzzle/trap. Something that will take 1-2 party members several rounds or even minutes to complete (even if not terrible difficult to figure out).
  • Send your constructs down a narrow hallway at the party.
  • Let the monk tank them - let him mop the floor with several.
  • The constructs can be virtually unlimited, or you can give them a regeneration quality that lets them reassemble after a certain period of time.
  • If you can lure the monk down the hall towards new-comers, this regeneration quality could be the real challenge.
  • You probably don't even need to roll out the attacks, etc. on the monk after the first couple. Since they only hit on 20's, just roll for a confirmation and damage every 20 attacks.
  • Meanwhile, the rest of the party gets to solve a puzzle.

    If the rest of the party doesn't have similarly high stats, you might want to ask him to tone it down just a bit (18,17,16,15,8,8 is pretty darn high - the equivalent of a 43 point-buy).


  • Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    Anguy wrote:
    Thalin wrote:

    In a world of 45-point builds dwarven monks can be hard to stop :).

    Could you elaborate a bit more on 45 point builds? I'm not familiar with the term. :)

    We just rolled the ability scores after the standard system so 4d6 and discard the lowest one.

    From

    http://paizo.com/prd/gettingStarted.html

    Instead of rolling 4d6, stats have a cost to increase. For example, a 12 stat costs 2 points.
    A 14 is 5 points. A 16 is 10, and an 18 stat costs 17. A stat lower than 10 gives points back. The idea is that everyone has a more level stat distribution. So one guy who always rolls crappy stats does not have to worry he will pale beside the guy who always rolls 18's.

    Pathfinder is based on a 4 character party, with 15 point buys (20 if you play Pathfinder Society). This dwarf has around a 45 point buy because he has several very high stats. He is much more powerful than the normal game standard.

    Scarab Sages

    If you were using the point buy system instead of rolling, those stats would cost 45 points. The standard point totals are 15, 20, or 25 points depending on the campaign.

    Edit: Ninja'd


    Ok I understand what you mean now. Well I still have to see for myself what stats the other characters have but potentially they shouldn't be that strong.
    It might be a good thing to have such a small dungeon in the beginning then to figure out how good the party actually is at killing creatures from which CR.


    Also he is very overgeared for level...

    Amulet of mightly fist +3 ALONE is 36k gold!

    He should have around 16,5k at level 6...

    Gimme 45pts and 50kgold to expend at level 6 and i asure you i can make a MUCH deadlier monk than this with higher AC and much more damage.

    Also he has almost MAX possible HP.

    If you allow randomness on creating characters you will come with this problems very often.

    I recommend building 25pts party(is still balanced if you allow just 1 dump stat at 8 or 20pts build if you allow 7s)

    And use PFS HP rule of max first level and average round UP at level UP... you will see that the game will feel much more balanced around the expected CR and APL. Also try to not overgear your characters, it tends to unbalance the game too much, bot dont make them overgeared, try to have them around +/- 20% of the expected wealth by level.

    Thats the problem, nothing to do with monks.


    High DR will do the trick.


    RafaelBraga wrote:

    Also he is very overgeared for level...

    Amulet of mightly fist +3 ALONE is 36k gold!

    He should have around 16,5k at level 6...

    Gimme 45pts and 50kgold to expend at level 6 and i asure you i can make a MUCH deadlier monk than this with higher AC and much more damage.

    Also he has almost MAX possible HP.

    If you allow randomness on creating characters you will come with this problems very often.

    I recommend building 25pts party(is still balanced if you allow just 1 dump stat at 8 or 20pts build if you allow 7s)

    And use PFS HP rule of max first level and average round UP at level UP... you will see that the game will feel much more balanced around the expected CR and APL. Also try to not overgear your characters, it tends to unbalance the game too much, bot dont make them overgeared, try to have them around +/- 20% of the expected wealth by level.

    Thats the problem, nothing to do with monks.

    You are right about the Amulet and I actually made a mistake there by stating it was +3. It's just +1 so he's well within his 16000 limit. Sorry for the confusion that might have caused!


    So... just looking over the obvious.

    Str +2 belt (4000g) Wis +2 (4000g) CLW wand 750g Mage armor wand 750g. That's 9,500g of the 16000g he should have at level 6. So at best his Amulet of Mighty Fists should be a +1 (4000g), and he can have 2500g left. A +2 Amulet is 8k by itself, and he'd be overspent at 6th level, unless you actually gave them the gear in play and these aren't fresh builds.

    Stats are high, I'm guessing rolled, which also makes monks much more workable, and monks shine from 6th level to 10th level if built well, so he's in his sweet spot. Dwarf is also one of the best monk races, so long as you get to roll stats. He has the equivalent of a ... 43 point buy, and has dump statted it to all hell. So combat wise, he'll definitely shine.

    His hp looked rather high, but Monk of Sacred Mountain get free toughness, so that's correct.

    His attacks at level 6 should be 10/10/5 with a +1 AoMF, doing d8+10/d8+8/d8+8... so that's all correct. Double str on 1st, 1.5 Str (dragon chain) on iteratives.

    His AC is 10 + Dex(3) + Wis(6) +Monk(1) + 1 Natural (Sacred Mountain) + 4 Mage armor +3 Barkskin (stacks with the natural as enhancement) +2 shield (sacred mountain if he doesn't move out of his square each round) +any other bonuses not listed for us already. So, 28 if he moves, 30 if he stays in the same place the whole round. He can spend 1 Ki point as a swift action to add another +4 dodge bonus for one round. Note, he can't do that the first round, since he has to activate dragon style as a swift as well.

    He can't have elemental fist yet, it takes MoMS or Monk of 4 Winds to get it faster than level 7, and even at level 7 he only gets one energy type until he is level 11.
    He should have: Free-Toughness, Stunning fist, other monk class features.
    Monk Bonus feats(3): listed in the normal monk vanilla class list, 2 from the low level and one from the 6th level possible.
    1st level feat: unknown, not listed above.
    3rd level feat: Dragon style.
    5th level feat: Dragon Ferocity

    Other than elemental fist feat (which he may not know he can't take with his bonus feat, I'm sure that's what he did once he had dragon ferocity and got a monk feat at 6th)... the character is completely legal.

    Out of curiosity, you said the dungeon is full of constructs with long dead populace... a couple incorporeal undead with an int/cha drain will ignore a ton of his AC, especially if they come out of walls to catch him flatfooted. He still gets his Wis, monk bonus and the Mage armor (force effect) for a 21, but a good roll on a d6 Cha drain and he's unconscious, and wishing he hadn't dumped so poorly.


    He's OP in so much as you could take pretty much any class, give them a 40+pt build and double WBL and they'd be powerful. Try doing this with a Tier 1 Full spellcaster. Fun.


    Out of curiosity, did he roll his stats in front of you?

    Personally, this is a big reason why I prefer point buy since in my experience, when you allow players to roll for stats and they don't do so in front of you, at least one (and usually more) manage to have incredibly lucky dice rolls.


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    No he didn't do it in front of me, though he is my brother so there's a fair amount of trust involved. The idea of a point buy system really starts to grow on me the more we are talking about it. It's definitely something I'd do in coming campaigns, at least to minimize the gap between characters abilities and to even out the luck factor


    Thalin wrote:

    In a world of 45-point builds dwarven monks can be hard to stop :).

    In seriousness, monks are typically all about survivability. High ACs and High Saves = difficult to kill. Let it be for now; their AC doesn't really keep going up much beyond this... at higher levels 30s won't be hard to beat out.

    His damage output should be good (largely because 20 strength with all of these other things) but not overpowering. Consider having stronger enemies move past him in favor of squishier targets; this probably will have the residual effect of giving him only 1 attack for the round.

    If the rest of the party is also a 45-point build you'll need to up difficulty encounters.

    I was hoping someone would point that out... I counted it was a 47 point build myself.


    Thanks for all the help so far guys though I still have a question concerning Damage reduction. Quote: "As long as he has at least 1 point in his ki pool, he can make a ki strike." ..."At 4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."

    Doesn't this mean that my Constructs are pretty much screwed because he will ignore DR alltogether? Or does it only apply for certain DR types?
    Also I just talked to him about the Elemental fist stuff and it's actually ok that he has it since he earned a feat through taking that major drawback (- on riding checks and animals hate him) mentioned above

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

    He can bypass DR/Magic. That's it.

    He has nothing to deal with other types of DR.


    What does he do for the party? I build an awesome high AC monk with snake style to get AoOs every time someone misses. I then realized nobody was going to miss, because they weren't going to attack me.

    Silver Crusade

    Taow wrote:
    What does he do for the party? I build an awesome high AC monk with snake style to get AoOs every time someone misses. I then realized nobody was going to miss, because they weren't going to attack me.

    why not? do they have knowledge of you before the fight?


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Taow wrote:
    What does he do for the party? I build an awesome high AC monk with snake style to get AoOs every time someone misses. I then realized nobody was going to miss, because they weren't going to attack me.

    Not every monster has Skill Focus in Metagaming. ;-)

    He tanks, and could be a decent scout.


    DrDeth wrote:
    Taow wrote:
    What does he do for the party? I build an awesome high AC monk with snake style to get AoOs every time someone misses. I then realized nobody was going to miss, because they weren't going to attack me.
    Not every monster has Skill Focus in Metagaming. ;-)

    True. But even moderately intelligent monsters will quickly realize that attacking the monk will a) generally fail to cause much damage and b) enable the monk to strike back. It might work for a round or two in some cases, and it SHOULD work longer in other cases to an extent, but it will often just not prove very productive -- particularly since there is very little in the way of a means to force a creature to attack you. This gets particularly difficult when you leave the "hallways" of the dungeon. Granted, there are things you can do to make it more likely, but little you can do to make it a guarantee. Keep in mind too that even an unintelligent foe may well decide to go after the guy that is actually doing a lot of damage.

    Note that this is also why I stated above that the characters "Drawback" is not really a drawback since he wants critters to attack him.


    Gargs454 wrote:
    DrDeth wrote:
    Taow wrote:
    What does he do for the party? I build an awesome high AC monk with snake style to get AoOs every time someone misses. I then realized nobody was going to miss, because they weren't going to attack me.
    Not every monster has Skill Focus in Metagaming. ;-)
    True. But even moderately intelligent monsters will quickly realize that attacking the monk will a) generally fail to cause much damage and b) enable the monk to strike back. It might work for a round or two in some cases, and it SHOULD work longer in other cases to an extent, but it will often just not prove very productive --

    Sure, but one or two rounds is enough, in most cases, but remember this monk can also deal decent damage.


    Thanks for the heads up blackbloodtroll.

    Thanks also to all of you guys for being so nice and patient and really quick when it comes to replying! :)


    DrDeth wrote:
    Gargs454 wrote:
    DrDeth wrote:
    Taow wrote:
    What does he do for the party? I build an awesome high AC monk with snake style to get AoOs every time someone misses. I then realized nobody was going to miss, because they weren't going to attack me.
    Not every monster has Skill Focus in Metagaming. ;-)
    True. But even moderately intelligent monsters will quickly realize that attacking the monk will a) generally fail to cause much damage and b) enable the monk to strike back. It might work for a round or two in some cases, and it SHOULD work longer in other cases to an extent, but it will often just not prove very productive --
    Sure, but one or two rounds is enough, in most cases, but remember this monk can also deal decent damage.

    Well its debatable how good the OP's monk's damage is. Against things with DR, it will quickly be minimal damage.

    As for the Snake Style Monk, that monk would generally do even less damage as it either won't have Dragon Style up, or (assuming its a point buy) will run into MAD issues. The OP's monk is not a MoMS so it can't have both Dragon and Snake up at the same time, though I suppose with a feat it could alternate between both to get attacks off turn without the Dragon boost.

    My point though is that even with unintelligent critters, they still won't attack the monk first every time unless every encounter is in a hallway where the monk can just step in front. In practice, with an experienced GM who creates a variety of encounters, its likely that critters will not be attacking the monk a particularly high percentage of the time. Though I do concede that its probably metagaming if they never attack the monk.


    Gargs454 wrote:


    Well its debatable how good the OP's monk's damage is. Against things with DR, it will quickly be minimal damage.

    My point though is that even with unintelligent critters, they still won't attack the monk first every time unless every encounter is in a hallway where the monk can just step in front. In practice, with an experienced GM who creates a variety of encounters, its likely that critters will not be attacking the monk a particularly high percentage of the time. Though I do concede that its probably metagaming if they never attack the monk.

    Ok, so DR silver & Iron are low, and Ki gets thru them. DR magic tends to be High, but the Monk gets thru them.

    At higher levels, the Monk also gets thru DR Adamantine and lawful.

    That leaves Good/Evil. So, when fighting Demons, he's gonna need a spell. Most tanks will, just not paladins.


    I have a defensive dwarven monk in my campaign. I like to have monsters grapple and swallow him. He usually punches his way back out, but it's good fun.


    If animals like him over all other targets... why not put in some bat or rat swarms?

    Swarms typically just kinda of target whoever's closest... now they have a reason to target him! =)

    I'm sure some abandoned place full of constructs has a few magical traps lurking that could summon such things... especially given they won't hurt the constructs at all.... so have both!


    Swarmsuit!


    Correct the mistakes in he build, pehaps let him keep elemental Fist it always seemed a not too hot feat to me any way. But look at CR 5-7ish monsters and you will see that even if he have mage Armor on and is stranding still some of them will hit him on 13+. He is good but not that good. As long as your encounters have several things happening at the same time, and not just a single villain, i dont think hed badassness is gonna be a problematic.
    I dont know what a shapechanger is bur both the barbarian and the witch is soon gonna out pace the monk unless they rolled really bad.
    Put some mobility in to some of the figths, if you must, from time to time.

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