Running out of Scenarios


Pathfinder Society

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1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm seeing a recurring problem in many of the events in our area...trying to get a scenario to play that everyone at the table has not already played.
This is a good thing in that it means that we have had a lot of playing going on but it is starting to hamper peoples ability to participate because of the limited number of scenarios that are available vs. what people have played.
I would hate to see people opt out of playing just because of this issue for many reasons.

* People buy stuff when they play and it is good for the Store owners who host as well as Paizo itself
* If people don't play on a regular basis they may lose interest and opt out of the game completely
* people like playing varied characters...if someone wants to play several characters it can be extremely difficult to get all of the to high level due to lack of scenario availability

I propose that Paizo make and legal scenario that is not either retired or of the current year replayable as long as it is still only once per character.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

There is another solution to the quandary of what to do when you run out of scenarios that you can play.

That solution is to judge.

This way you pay back your community for all of those many hrs of enjoyment that you have received because someone else before made the choice to judge and to give back.

Plus it can be quite fun.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Eric: i think their issue from the first statement is that the player pool they have has most played what is on offer. Even if you draw a player out from that pool to gm, you still have 4-5 people who dont have much left to play. I dont agree at all with replays (look at LFR for examples why this is bad bad).

I dont think there is a solution to your problem Unkblock. I would say diversify into another living campaign but Im honestly not sure what other ones are around at the moment.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Eric Brittain wrote:

There is another solution to the quandary of what to do when you run out of scenarios that you can play.

That solution is to judge.

I have 45 scenarios left that I have not played or judged.

What do I do?

Liberty's Edge 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

err keep playing and judging TriOmega?

Lantern Lodge 3/5

@Unklbuck, why not run a homebrew?

You can make it easy by using PFS creation rules for your characters. GMs can be switch on a game to game basis by running modules or re-flavored scenarios.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Matthew Pittard wrote:
err keep playing and judging TriOmega?

And when I have experienced every scenario on one side of the screen or the other? What then?

The Exchange 4/5

The possibilities I see are:

1) You can see if folks would be interested in playing some modules.

2) Some folks could replay without getting the credit under the current rules.

3) Some folks could replay using one of their GM stars. Hopefully, that will be changed from lifetime to annual.

4) Take turns as GM. In a small group, that could mean that some folks won't be able to have enough players for some adventures that they ran for the group.

Any others that I haven't listed?

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Tri: I dont have any answer to that. I dont think there IS an answer to that.

Back in the day I was playing in multiple living campaigns so it was unlikely I would ever have that problem. Its just not the same now because that same level of living support from multiple companies isnt there.

I dread the day when I run our of stuff to play or gm, but generally I choose not to even contemplate that day.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Matthew Pittard wrote:
Tri: I dont have any answer to that. I dont think there IS an answer to that.

That's pretty much my point. We have a player who has played and GMed all but maybe six or seven scenarios. It's a serious task to find new games for him to participate in.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

You can always judge a scenario over and over. With each table it will be slightly different as the people playing bring different things to the mix.

There are areas beyond playing and judging that support our fine hobby. There is coordinating in all its different forms from small single event games to massive conventions.

There is also writing for the open call or applying to become a Venture Officer.

There are many ways in which each of us can give back to the larger communities that have supported our enjoyment of oh so many games and I am sure that if you put your mind to it you can find ones that are needed in your community that I did not list.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Matthew Pittard wrote:
Tri: I dont have any answer to that. I dont think there IS an answer to that.
That's pretty much my point. We have a player who has played and GMed all but maybe six or seven scenarios. It's a serious task to find new games for him to participate in.

If your judges are only judging once for the chronicle that they get for that event then you may have problems. This model of play-and-judge-only-once-each does not tend to lend itself to sustainable play.

If you are a regular player you will run out of events that you can play if you play at a higher rate than the release schedule. The same if you only ever judge an event once.

By focusing on the larger community and not on the chronicle rewards (which are nice) play in your community becomes more sustainable. This is enhanced further if every member of the community understands that the hobby works because people give to make it work and that in time they will also be asked to give in some way to make it keep working.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Eric Brittain wrote:
If you are a regular player you will run out of events that you can play if you play at a higher rate than the release schedule. The same if you only ever judge an event once.

Considering we run an average of eight slots a month, this is inevitable regardless of schedule.

3/5 5/5

There really isn't any solution unless Paizo tries to release scenarios and modules at a greater frequency, and that may result in quality problems if not done carefully.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Like somebody else said, you can start playing sanctioned modules and sanctioned portions of Adventure Paths. You could even play an Adventure Path in campaign mode.

You could also do other things besides play PFS. You could make your own Pathfinder home game, you could play some other system for a while, you could even break out the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game which does a pretty good job of simulating an adventure.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Michael Eshleman wrote:
Like somebody else said, you can start playing sanctioned modules and sanctioned portions of Adventure Paths. You could even play an Adventure Path in campaign mode.

But you can't really do any of that at the local gameday, unfortunately.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

You can break modules up over several days. You just need your players to be dedicated to coming until is completed. If they are that hard up for things to play then it is incumbent upon them to make the effort.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Michael Eshleman wrote:
You just need your players to be dedicated to coming until is completed. If they are that hard up for things to play then it is incumbent upon them to make the effort.

It's not the hard up ones you have to worry about.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

In the narrow (only me) view there is not a solution to the case where people play PFS offerings faster than they are release that grants them any more play opportunities in PFS and I don't believe that it serves us to pursue one.

In the broader view (the community) there are solutions to increasing the amount of play that happens in a region as well as increasing the number of players.

The question that needs to be asked is, "Am I only interested in solving issues for myself or am I interested in serving my community?"

If you (a generic you and not pointed at anyone specifically) are only interested in yourself and 'what is in it for me' then I would contend your community would most likely be better off without you in it.

If you (another generic you) are interested in helping our hobby grow and thrive by supporting your community then I believe that your community is made all the better for having you in it. You can give back to your community in many more ways than just judging.

PFS is not for everyone not should it ever try to be.

- - -
<begin semi-rant>
While this may be off topic, it is my strong belief that a sense of entitlement (that feeling that I am owed something without anything required in exchange) is a cancer that will eat away at the body of a community until it cannot support itself and implodes. A sense that it is acceptable to only take leads to nothing being offered. Just like in a garden if you don't plant and care for it you will soon have nothing to harvest.
<end semi-rant>

Liberty's Edge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

To be fair to the OP. He GMs, and has I believe GMd for no credit before.

But the problem he's citing is that we have some players and GMs that play and/or GM 3 or more times per week.

As such, they run out of things to play within a year to a year and a half.

Personally, I look at our regions game days and pick the ones to attend that have something I can play. I'm not hurt disappointed or offended if I have to stay home a couple weeks in a row, because it gives me time to spend with the wife. Or to go see a movie.

I love PFS, and not getting to play ocassionally won't stop me from playing when the offerings are compatible with my list.

We don't want to come off as saying not to play, nor do we really want to say play less. But the reality of the amount of play opportunities available is that at some point, if you play more than once a month, you will run out of play opportunities.

Making players aware of this may help them to be more frugal with their play time, but if it doesn't, at least they go in eyes wide open.

Right now I have: 14/14/14/10/9/9/8/8/5/3/2/1(dead).

I still have enough play and gm opportunities available that I can get:

19.2/19.2/16/16/12/12/12/12/9/9/9

And by then, I should be able to get all of those to 19.2 with AP sanctioning, new modules, and new scenarios.

As long as everyone understands that you rate of play is going to eventually be inversely proportional to your play Opportunities, then missing some game days won't kill you.

Indeed, one of the aspects of organized play that makes it a draw, is that you don't have to show up every week or then miss something or fall behind in xp like in a home campaign.

I'm not sure extra replay is a good idea.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Unklbuck wrote:

I'm seeing a recurring problem in many of the events in our area...trying to get a scenario to play that everyone at the table has not already played.

This is a good thing in that it means that we have had a lot of playing going on but it is starting to hamper peoples ability to participate because of the limited number of scenarios that are available vs. what people have played.
I would hate to see people opt out of playing just because of this issue for many reasons.

I don't know enough about the various adventure paths but you could offer the pathfinder subsets to be played like modules in an all-day format.

Not helpful for shorter days - if you have venues that are open for 10+ hours it might work.

I've seen the first item of Reign of Winter done in a game store.

Some of them are even beyond 12th level so you might attract seekers to play.

Silver Crusade 5/5

UnckleBuck, I don't have a suggestion about what to do about running out of scenarios that hasn't already been mentioned up thread.

I do however have another related question.

How can we encourage and increase the opportunities for veteran players to play with new players?

What do you all think?

Sczarni 4/5

Myles Crocker wrote:

UnckleBuck, I don't have a suggestion about what to do about running out of scenarios that hasn't already been mentioned up thread.

I do however have another related question.

How can we encourage and increase the opportunities for veteran players to play with new players?

What do you all think?

Myles, I think that this is more of an issue with 'official online sign ups' such as warhorn. The 'veteran ' players tend to sign up early, and pretty commonly will sign up to one with their friends. We've started to see this in our area as Warhorn is getting more used. When we used to assign tables at the location, people didn't have a choice and learned to love each other.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

We don't use warhorn we use meetup. You can RSVP. You can request to sit at someone's table. We will try to accommodate. But we can't guarantee, especially the larger the group.

4/5

Well honestly in our area we tend to use Warhorn but will have two tables worth of people, and then split as needed. Not to mention we do also get walk ins.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ive also seen when people rush to sign up on warhorn, forget they have signed up and dont show. Or rush to sign up to things (often they sign up to the same game twice or more) people they 'need to get in before it goes'.

Someone above me said that we have some PFS people playing 3 times a week. I dont mean to say how much is enough and I wont , but in terms of a living campaign.. that level of play is not sustainable. You will soon run out of games to play.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Matthew Pittard wrote:
You will soon run out of games to play.

Tell me about it.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Toz: Im starting to feel the effects sorta. its not too prevalent yet, but Ive somehow managed to get myself into a strange character leveling issue where I have a Gunslinger at 11, a Wizard at 10.2, a Barbarian at 10.1 and a Paladin at 8.0

So Ive played a lot too.

5/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Matthew Pittard wrote:
err keep playing and judging TriOmega?
And when I have experienced every scenario on one side of the screen or the other? What then?

Go to work at Paizo?

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Is that the progression Kyle, play and run everything and get a free gig at Paizo? :)

personally Im far too haphazard (despite attempts at an ordered life) to ever be a game designer or writer.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 **** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Midwest

There can be some help by organizers to make sure as many scenarios as possible are rotating through. The problem I've seen sometimes has to do more with a few very popular scenarios cycling over and over, rather than actually running out. At least for some.

I am guilty of it as much as the next person. I usually try to run scenarios I have already played because I think it makes the game better for all involved. That being said, I have run about 25% of my tables without having played first. My point is, that if we are just cycling through the scenarios we've played, we miss a lot of the older ones.

Maybe this is more of an issue In an area with five (or more) weekly game days, and the natural overlap this can cause.

4/5

Silbeg wrote:

There can be some help by organizers to make sure as many scenarios as possible are rotating through. The problem I've seen sometimes has to do more with a few very popular scenarios cycling over and over, rather than actually running out. At least for some.

I am guilty of it as much as the next person. I usually try to run scenarios I have already played because I think it makes the game better for all involved. That being said, I have run about 25% of my tables without having played first. My point is, that if we are just cycling through the scenarios we've played, we miss a lot of the older ones.

Maybe this is more of an issue In an area with five (or more) weekly game days, and the natural overlap this can cause.

It's certainly something to watch out for, but I think the Twin Cities area is pretty good at rotating adventures. They keep a record of what was played where and when, so they don't accidentally fall into the habit of just running old favorites and new releases.

I think, like Andy said, it's got more to do with the fact that a good number of people are playing 3+ games a week. Isn't there at least one game going on somewhere in the Cities every day but Friday? There are a lot of people who will play Thursday at Legion, Saturday afternoon at Tower, Saturday night at YMB, and Sunday at FFG or The Source. Paizo will never be able to produce enough content to support that gaming lifestyle for long.

I don't think replay is a real solution. It's just less fun to replay a scenario: That's why you aren't constantly running In Service to Lore and The Confirmation every week somewhere, that's why you don't take every new PC through Crypt of the Everflame to bring him up to 2. If you want to play that much, logistically PFS cannot be your only outlet. Bringing people together so they can start their own home games is one of, if not the main goal of PFS, and that's what I would suggest trying. Put together a couple AP groups or run your own homebrew campaign. They're harder to make work than a PFS game, but if you have a couple, three going at a time, you'll still get several days' worth of Pathfindering a week even if not every group can get together.

*

In response:
Yes...people can GM more...if they have the time and their work schedule allows.
However you know as well as I that some people will not GM because they prefer not to and some you are glad that they do not attempt to.
That being said applying GM credit to a character and leveling them is a poor substitute to actually playing them and enjoying seeing what the class and your particular build is capable of.
In addition whenever you get a group of 4-5 players...all of whom play on a regular basis...finding a common scenario is virtually impossible.
I just believe replays should be more common. Maybe a rule can be enacted that the player can be fined one PP if they use out of character knowledge if that becomes a problem.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Unklbuck wrote:
I just believe replays should be more common. Maybe a rule can be enacted that the player can be fined one PP if they use out of character knowledge if that becomes a problem.

I believe that case would be tearing a hole just so you could put a patch over it.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Akerlof: +1 to what you said for the most part.

I got into PFS because of past good experiences with LG and the fact that my 'normal' gaming group had slowly but surely been dying for a long time as we lost players, couldnt find a location to game at and just faded away.

For the most part I enjoy it, but ive never been a gamer who wants to game 3 days a week or during the week. I save my gaming to weekends (or in the case of a convention I make exceptions).I know of plenty of gamers who seem to think its race to get in as much gaming as possible and its sad just how many of those 'burn out' and are lost to the hobby.

I can understand your frustration but I also refuse to see my living campaign go into replay mode because there are some pfs players who love pfs they just have to play 3-4 times a week.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Unklbuck wrote:

In response:

Yes...people can GM more...if they have the time and their work schedule allows.
However you know as well as I that some people will not GM because they prefer not to and some you are glad that they do not attempt to.
That being said applying GM credit to a character and leveling them is a poor substitute to actually playing them and enjoying seeing what the class and your particular build is capable of.
In addition whenever you get a group of 4-5 players...all of whom play on a regular basis...finding a common scenario is virtually impossible.
I just believe replays should be more common. Maybe a rule can be enacted that the player can be fined one PP if they use out of character knowledge if that becomes a problem.

I think this can really only be a problem at game days that let the GM poll the players who are going to show up to play on what scenario to run.

Realistically, I have found that if coordinators decide what is to play, announce it, and then find their GMs, that you don't ever have the problem of trying to figure out what scenario a group of 4-5 players could play together.

Because those who can play what's scheduled, will show up and play. And those who cannot, won't.

Honestly, this really only becomes a problem when you play the "pick-up" game with scheduling regular game days or off-the-cuff sessions.

I am really not a fan of, nor in favor of, more replay that we already have.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

I coordinate for a store with games on tuesdays. We have a set crew of 4 regulars and 3-4 semi-regulars. But I also play on wednesdays at another store, and many of my other players play on mondays and fridays at other stores.

So, every month or so, they give me updated lists of everything they've played or GM'd. I've got a database set up that I can work out who needs to run what in order for everyone to get credit. Give the assigned GM a few weeks notice, and so far it's working out. But we'll still probably run out of games around August.


Me, I'd say the easiest solution is just to mix things up with non-PFS stuff now and again.

*Looks around*

*Everyone's staring at me*

What? What'd I say?

Grand Lodge 4/5

I've also got a non-PFS weeknight game every week and a non-PFS Saturday night game every other week. Just saying.

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