Destiny of the Sands I - A Bitter Bargain GM Shared Prep [spoilers]

[Joshua Goudreau]

I just ran this scenario today and it was a lot of fun. However, some shared prep probably couldn't hurt.

One big thing that happened at all three tables running this today, including my own, is the party arrived in Eto without having asked where to find Torch. I strongly recommend that GMs share this information with the party automatically instead of waiting for them to ask.

The scenario has a lot of options for the party to approach from odd directions both figuratively and literally. What other pitfalls might be avoided with some advanced prep time?

[Nathan Hartshorn]

Knowing how each faction runs through its mission. If you don't notice the one sentence stating Sczarni members must convince Torch alone it makes the first part of convincing Torch trivial.

Knowing how the 4 player adjustments work is a big thing, cause they add various conditions, templates, or temporary hit points to monsters.

Actually shifting the patterns in the sand in The Dancing Dunes (I did this by cutting out more paper and making different patterns) for players that notice (this is more for fun than anything).

Also look at the personalities of the people that are to be RP'd and play it up!

[Joshua Goudreau]

I had to run the scenario with very little prep and there were a few things that threw me pretty badly. The faction missions were not as clearly presented as they could have been. I'm glad I didn't have any Sczarni or Qadira players at my table because I missed those bits. I had to skim ahead of the party, taking frequent breaks and whatnot so I could do the scenario justice. Hell, I missed the geode until the party got to Eto. My players knew I was running unprepared and were forgiving but it still kind of sucked and the problems I had could have been fixed with a detailed read through.

I agree that reading the scaling sidebars is important and taking some time to prep those stat blocks is important. I ran with four players and had to use them, but I'm good at adjusting things based on conditions and templates quickly. they were quick and dirty adjustments but they sufficed.

[Tim Statler]

I ran this yesterday. The qadiran players missed their boon because all distrusted Torch enough that asking him was out of the question. They. Also never got the chance to see the shifing sands. The two barbarians went straight to threatening, whiich triggered the fight. The rest of the party stayed out of the fight and was able to salvage the mission.

[Matthew Morris]

Tim Statler wrote:

I ran this yesterday. The qadiran players missed their boon because all distrusted Torch enough that asking him was out of the question. They. Also never got the chance to see the shifing sands. The two barbarians went straight to threatening, whiich triggered the fight. The rest of the party stayed out of the fight and was able to salvage the mission.

Ran this over the weekend myself.

Spoiler:

Took a moment to remind the Qaderian and Sczarni people their faction mission for the season, had one player ask if I was giving spoilers about 'someone trying to kill the Sczarni faction head.'

Getting in town was fun. The halfling tried to charm Mahu into lettign her not pay taxes. I shamelessly lifted Omid Djalili's Gad Hassan from The Mummy (hard to beleive it's 15 years old) for Mahu so they did come to an 'accomidation'.

Meanwhle the 7 cha ranger (coincidentally played by the halfling player's husband) seriously offended Mahu and he brought in a big burly armed man for the full serarch. I wrote "No polyups found" on his chonicle sheet.

They got the book in by two PCs starting to fight each other, while the one Osirion PC played the 'stupid local' making excuses for the supply problems. Meanwhile the rogue snuck in and burried the book in a pack. I'll admit I stole a great deal from the Mummy here too, modling the guy on the other expedition party (even gave him a Gunslinger as background dressing).

Almost had a failure in the temple. The dwarf was kind enough to fail fort saves vs the poison, and they breezed through the snakes regardless. They smuggled the artifacts back in with a mix of high bluff checks and a clever plan. Sczarni achievement unlocked!

The rogues presented little challenge, even though I got lucky with the thunderstone and deafened a couple casters.

The sandman encounter was hillarious. First one of the players doesn't understand 'feasthall' so they go in seperately.
1) The Halfling goes first trying to score a job as a performer. A roll of 13 on her perform (tumbling) check allows me to go all Simon Cowell on her.

2) Rest of the party comes in, some taking girls, others in the garden to meditate.

3) Finally the guy who didn't know what 'feast hall meant' goes in hopeing for 'steak'. When asked if he had a partner preference he said he'd want to dine alone. So he got a bottle of oil and sent to a small room. Spent most of the encounter waiting for dinner.

I was hoping for a fight, both to hamper the Qaderia mission and to give Sczarni the 'lead', and to challenge the party. Alas, a natural 20 on the intimidate roll pushed the number just over the target and she was cowed, with no combat resolved. Much swearing by the GM ensured.

All in all, I had a great time with it, the players enjoyed it and it was nice to have a mix of RP and combat.

I'd highly advise people to run something with <redacted> involved prior to running this so it adds to the $^#$^#$^ factor when they realize who they're dealing with. Our newer players had played thorugh MFoGT from season 0, jsut so they would be aware of who they were dealing with. It had the desired effect.

Also in the clever plans catagory... things you won't hear outside of RPGs. "We're impregnating the camel with our loot!"

[Matthew Morris]

Oh one other thing.

With Madame Zelekhati, I (after getting permission from the player to use him as an example) described how she was interacting with the patrons. Fidgiting with her ring and chatting up patrons, often touching them. After a couple times one of the players caught on. "She's doing that thing on Leverage!" (neuro-linguistic programming)

More amusingly the various wives at the tables commented on how they've trained their husbands the same way. :-)

[Jeffrey Stop]

A minor point, but is Naleth female or male? In the beginning of C3. Hundredfingers Hideout, this is said about Naleth:
When Naleth (N female halfling commoner 1/rogue 1), the oldest cutpurse of the Hundredfingers gang heard the story, she knew it sounded suspicious.

Later, in the Development section for the same encounter, it says this:
Once Naleth Hundredfingers believes the coast is clear, he emerges from his hiding spot, greets the PCs, and asks if they’re friends of the scarred man. He requests that the PCs either escort him to Grandmaster Torch to deliver a message or deliver the message for him.

In each section, Naleth's gender is consistent, but the two sections contradict each other.

[sowhereaminow]

Matthew Morris wrote:

I'd highly advise people to run something with <redacted> involved prior to running this so it adds to the $^#$^#$^ factor when they realize who they're dealing with. Our newer players had played thorugh MFoGT from season 0, jsut so they would be aware of who they were dealing with. It had the desired effect.

+1 to this. I've run it twice: once with a group of relative newbies and the second time with long term PFS players. Huge difference in reaction to meeting the person, and how the rest of the adventure ran.

Also, keep in mind this adventure is VERY player driven. If you have a bunch of wallflowers, this adventure could drag a bit. Much better with some self starter types. You may need to prompt the wallflowers, or failing that, give them an out of character pep talk, explaining that they need to initiate some encounters, and perhaps laying out some options.

And have the Venture Captains at the beginning mention how they wouldn't be upset if the players "tweaked"** their objectives. Didn't dawn on some of my guys without a little prompting...

**You know what I mean if you read the adventure. Trying to avoid spoilers.

[thistledown]

I just played through this, and it had some problems. First off, it had the biggest conflicts within the party that I've seen in years. Some wanted to mess up Torch's plans, others wanted to stay loyal to him (particularly my Sczarni who needed info from him, and had no reason to work against him) and some had no clue who he was. Debates over this bogged down the game a lot.

This particularly reared up in dealing with Zelekhati. The scenario doesn't cover the party trying to use diplomacy on her very well. It only talks about intimidating her or fighting her, and that convincing her to collaborate is difficult. With the sczarni faction calling for not fighting her and nobody stealthy in the party, some diplomacy options were needed. We ended up using the intimidate DC, but it was still some very awkward scrambling for the GM.

We also got bogged down (as usual lately) on what to do with the assassin after we had her unconscious.

[Rerednaw]

Low tier and we played a talky (Lem and Seoni) group while our VC ran. Even with Kyra and Hayato assisting it didn't make the needed DC (failed 4 Bluff/Diplomacy rolls in a row).
Plus we also missed all the Perception checks. Save 1 from Kyra.

Spoiler:

So first round, half the party falls asleep from the aura. Kyra woke up a player who didn't get to go because the sandman got to go first so he hit and slept the same player.
Sleep aura plus sleep on hit is pretty rough on a group of level 1 pregens, esp. when one player had never played Pathfinder before. We barely won after a grueling fight.

This isn't a mod I'd recommend for new players. Even though we sought non-lethal skill-based solutions we typically didn't have high enough skills to make the DCs...and the fight (like the one inside the spoiler) almost wiped the party.

That said I liked the opportunity for roleplaying. The characters were interesting (though that could have been the VC too.)

Granted if we had gone with 3 Amiri's and 1 Meri and used with the murdering hobo approach we probably would have had an easier time...or if you start each encounter will full resources.

[Joshua Goudreau]

The party I ran through this approached everything like a social encounter and avoided getting into too many fights, including the sandman. It's a pretty brutal encounter and the scenario doesn't do a great job of showing that a party can talk their way through if given the proper approach.

[BigNorseWolf]

One big thing that happened at all three tables running this today, including my own, is the party arrived in Eto without having asked where to find Torch. I strongly recommend that GMs share this information with the party automatically instead of waiting for them to ask.

Thanks for the heads up. I had the customs agent tell a half orc in the party directions to the bath house. (since torches guards were probably half the half orc population of the town, he figured any more showing up were all together)

[Joshua Goudreau]

The event I organized ran with three tables and each one of them failed to ask where Torch could be found. If nothing else is altered I recommend giving the location of the bath house during the briefing. The table I ran almost used the magic stone to call back and ask where to find him. I had the customs agent give them the hint as well.

[King of Vrock]

Jeffrey Stop wrote:

A minor point, but is Naleth female or male? In the beginning of C3. Hundredfingers Hideout, this is said about Naleth:

When Naleth (N female halfling commoner 1/rogue 1), the oldest cutpurse of the Hundredfingers gang heard the story, she knew it sounded suspicious.

Later, in the Development section for the same encounter, it says this:
Once Naleth Hundredfingers believes the coast is clear, he emerges from his hiding spot, greets the PCs, and asks if they’re friends of the scarred man. He requests that the PCs either escort him to Grandmaster Torch to deliver a message or deliver the message for him.

In each section, Naleth's gender is consistent, but the two sections contradict each other.

Naleth is supposed to be female.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Joshua Goudreau wrote:

The event I organized ran with three tables and each one of them failed to ask where Torch could be found. If nothing else is altered I recommend giving the location of the bath house during the briefing. The table I ran almost used the magic stone to call back and ask where to find him. I had the customs agent give them the hint as well.

I usually wait until the group says they re leaving before the sage gives them the geode. If they haven't asked about where torch is, He'll ask them as he hands it over if any of them know torch well enough to know where in Eto he will most likely be.

[Joshua Goudreau]

Earl Gendron wrote:

I usually wait until the group says they re leaving before the sage gives them the geode. If they haven't asked about where torch is, He'll ask them as he hands it over if any of them know torch well enough to know where in Eto he will most likely be.

That's a great solution.

[Victor Zajic]

For the Sandman encounter at low tier with 4 player conversion, the sand form says to treat the Sandman like a small earth element. Does this change the creature's stats? Should I use elemental body as a guideline, or maybe reduce person?

[primemover003]

Victor Zajic wrote:

For the Sandman encounter at low tier with 4 player conversion, the sand form says to treat the Sandman like a small earth element. Does this change the creature's stats? Should I use elemental body as a guideline, or maybe reduce person?

"Sand form" makes a sandman a significantly weaker creature in this lesser form (see bolded).

Sand Form:

Sand Form (Su) As a standard action, a sandman can cause its humanoid form to collapse into a pile of animated sand. In this form, treat the sandman as if it were a Small earth elemental made out of sand. The sandman retains its compression and sleep aura abilities when in sand form, but loses its sleep attack and its damage reduction, as its sandy body in this form is much more compact and easier to scatter with solid weapon blows.

[FLite]

thistledown wrote:

We also got bogged down (as usual lately) on what to do with the assassin after we had her unconscious.

She blew her will save to charm person when we woke her up to question her.

charm person fun:

So since none of us had slight of hand, we convinced her to plant the prayer book while we created a distraction for her, which had the advantage that the bard got to try out his fascinate performance, and I got to play busking extortionist. "but sir, kind sir, you will see we have attracted a large crowd, they will surely pay us handsomely, but if we end the performance now, as you ask, we will get nothing, unless, perchance you would reward us for this fine performance." (the caravan master made his saving throw, his workers did not and stopped loading the wagons to watch. He was not amused.)

[DelayedProfanity]

I have a question about this scenario, at the end on primary success condition section it says: "The PCs successfully complete their main mission by fulfilling Grandmaster Torch’s tasks and receiving the maps
to Seeker’s Folly. Doing so earns each PC 1 Prestige Point." this doesn't say that the party needs to fulfill all the tasks, so does the party get the PP if they completed 3/4 tasks from Torch's task list and get the maps?

[Chris Mortika]

Marko, why would Torch hand over the maps to Seeker's Folly when the PCs hadn't completed his tasks?

[Mistwalker]

Chris Mortika wrote:

Marko, why would Torch hand over the maps to Seeker's Folly when the PCs hadn't completed his tasks?

Probably due to the wording in the "conclusion" section:

Once the PCs complete (or at least attempt) all of Grandmaster Torch’s tasks to his satisfaction, he fulfills his part of the bargain by giving them several old maps.

My interpretation of that is: if Torch is satisfied that the group gave their best effort in completing their tasks, he will hand over the maps.

If the PCs get the map, they get the Prestige Point.

[FLite]

Remember, Torch is also willing to overlook the PCs sabotaging at least one of the tasks. So as long as they didn't fail more than one, they get the prestige point and the map.

[DelayedProfanity]

Mistwalker wrote:

Chris Mortika wrote:

Marko, why would Torch hand over the maps to Seeker's Folly when the PCs hadn't completed his tasks?

Probably due to the wording in the "conclusion" section:

Once the PCs complete (or at least attempt) all of Grandmaster Torch’s tasks to his satisfaction, he fulfills his part of the bargain by giving them several old maps.

My interpretation of that is: if Torch is satisfied that the group gave their best effort in completing their tasks, he will hand over the maps.

If the PCs get the map, they get the Prestige Point.

Exactly, the party bluffed Torch and said that they have completed the task, bluff check failed, but as FLite said it is clearly noted that Torch is willing to overlook the PCs sabotaging at least one of the tasks, but it says "sabotaging" not "failing" and my party failed one task, so that was my dilemma, should they get the PP or not... Anyway I will give the party first PP, after all your responses, I think it's fair decision. Ty all for help and answers!