What 3rd Party Material Is Missing?


Product Discussion

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

What kind of material would you like to see more of/feel has not been covered in the 3pp market?

More archetypes? PrCs? NPCs and Monsters? Where are there opportunities for new material that interests you?


Two words: MOAR ARCHETYPEZ!


Archtypes would be cool. I'm always looking for some more creepy crawlies. And me personally, some good PrCs, most I've come in contact with are a bit lack luster.


For creepy crawlies might I suggest Monsters of Porphyra.


For Creepy Crawlies I would recommend (these books are not mine)

Fearsome Foes
Tome of Horrors Complete
Tome of Horrors 4
Monstrous Menagerie
The Great City: Urban Creatures & Lairs
The various Book of Beasts
Midguard Bestiary
Dark Fey
Midguard Book of Drakes
The Collected Monsters of Sin
Monster Chronicles series.
Monsters of Neoexodus series
Monster Focus series
Rawr! series


For creatures I would second Dark Fey, the Midgard Bestiary, and the Tome of Horrors Complete (the three I own) from that list. I'd add to that the fantastic Book of Monster Templates and 101 Not So Simple Monster Templates by Rite Publishing, both of which add lots of great options to modify existing creatures.

As for me, as a DM primarily I would like to see more NPC stats, particularly books of monsters with class levels, and I'm always eager to find more books with treasures for my players to find. I think I am pretty full of player races, classes, archetypes, and feats (far, far too many feats as is for me).


Cool oriental archetypes can be found in Way of the Samurai, Way of the Yakuza, and racial archetypes in In the Company of Kappa, In the Company of Henge, and In the Company of Tengu - all from Rite Publishing.


More support for the Words of Power variant magic system. To date, I think there are only 3 'expansions' available.

Liberty's Edge

Changing Man wrote:
More support for the Words of Power variant magic system. To date, I think there are only 3 'expansions' available.

Then you will definitely want to check out Deep Magic from Kobold Press when it comes out!!!


Marc Radle wrote:
Changing Man wrote:
More support for the Words of Power variant magic system. To date, I think there are only 3 'expansions' available.
Then you will definitely want to check out Deep Magic from Kobold Press when it comes out!!!

Since I'm a backer from the KS, I can't wait!

(and since I have you here...)
Will we be seeing White Necromancer Words of Power lists? What words would they have from the 'Ultimate Magic' words?

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

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For archetypes, both The Flying Pincushion and D20pfsrd recently got into publishing and rumor has that both are putting out archetype heavy books. Flying Pincushion has a few of them under the name of "Into the Breach," and are currently focusing on the non-Core Rulebook classes. Look for a Witch book soon(as an editor of it, I can tell you that it is looking amazing.)

d20pfsrd.com hasn't announced any upcoming products yet (at least I don't think they have,) but I do know that something with archetypes is a big possibility.

Grand Lodge

Vehicles.

I'd like to see a book that expands on the rules in Ultimate Combat. More vehicles and customization.

SM


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Adventures that Paizo won't write/commission that don't fit the standard formula


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A few things:

Robust mass combat system that scales to squad level, minor skirmish and major battle. The Paizo one is fine but very shallow.
A bolt on to the magic system that allows for much more epic casting. Kinda like get 20 casters together and they can cast an uber fireball that wipes out a town.
A book full of intrigue storylines that can be threaded into your campaign.
More Artifacts. Way more artifacts. And minor artifacts like +1 swords that have a really great backstory.
Really deep support of the Paizo planes. City of Brass is awesome. Let's see a book of 20 planar locations or waypoints.

These are the first things that come to mind anyways.


Alan_Beven wrote:

A few things:

Robust mass combat system that scales to squad level, minor skirmish and major battle. The Paizo one is fine but very shallow.
A bolt on to the magic system that allows for much more epic casting. Kinda like get 20 casters together and they can cast an uber fireball that wipes out a town.
A book full of intrigue storylines that can be threaded into your campaign.
More Artifacts. Way more artifacts. And minor artifacts like +1 swords that have a really great backstory.
Really deep support of the Paizo planes. City of Brass is awesome. Let's see a book of 20 planar locations or waypoints.

These are the first things that come to mind anyways.

Some really good ideas there, Alan, and several of them have crossed my mind before. I can't set a specific time table but I hope and believe you'll see a couple of items from that list from Blood Brethren Games in 2014 :-)


Jesper at Blood Brethren Games wrote:
Alan_Beven wrote:

A few things:

Robust mass combat system that scales to squad level, minor skirmish and major battle. The Paizo one is fine but very shallow.
A bolt on to the magic system that allows for much more epic casting. Kinda like get 20 casters together and they can cast an uber fireball that wipes out a town.
A book full of intrigue storylines that can be threaded into your campaign.
More Artifacts. Way more artifacts. And minor artifacts like +1 swords that have a really great backstory.
Really deep support of the Paizo planes. City of Brass is awesome. Let's see a book of 20 planar locations or waypoints.

These are the first things that come to mind anyways.

Some really good ideas there, Alan, and several of them have crossed my mind before. I can't set a specific time table but I hope and believe you'll see a couple of items from that list from Blood Brethren Games in 2014 :-)

Very cool!! Happy to elaborate on some if you have any interest.


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Some others:

Details on how a medieval village works and grows. How much population before a mill is needed. How many hectares get farmed per capita. Throw in magic on top of it all, magic fountains, cauldrons that multiply food.
Hedge magic, hard to repeat pseudo magic that is passed along from generation to generation. Hexes, charms etc.
Ways to amp up simple creatures to be terrorising. Spriggans that inhabit the rafters of buildings and whose presence curdles milk. Creatures who take to the wing at night by tr full moon and whose passing shadow strikes livestock dead.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Jesper at Blood Brethren Games wrote:
Alan_Beven wrote:

A few things:

Robust mass combat system that scales to squad level, minor skirmish and major battle. The Paizo one is fine but very shallow.
A bolt on to the magic system that allows for much more epic casting. Kinda like get 20 casters together and they can cast an uber fireball that wipes out a town.
A book full of intrigue storylines that can be threaded into your campaign.
More Artifacts. Way more artifacts. And minor artifacts like +1 swords that have a really great backstory.
Really deep support of the Paizo planes. City of Brass is awesome. Let's see a book of 20 planar locations or waypoints.

These are the first things that come to mind anyways.

Some really good ideas there, Alan, and several of them have crossed my mind before. I can't set a specific time table but I hope and believe you'll see a couple of items from that list from Blood Brethren Games in 2014 :-)

Ritual/multi caster system is definitely something I've been wanting to work with when I get a chance.


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Some more:

I want to be able to run a multi transport type long range journey involving horseback, wagons, ships etc. 4000 miles or more. Requiring hirelings, and other NPCs. Would like to have details on costs of setting up this type of thing. Wages, weights of items, how much provisions, types of trade goods, etc. also the types of encounters that would occur, broken wheels, impassible terrain etc. Basically how to establish and maintain profitable trade routes, as well as just general interesting long range travel.

In a similar vein, a sandbox type of game system for generic overland exploration. Food, water, weather considerations. Interesting events that are not combat events. Hex style exploration. Reasons to carry fresh good over trail mix. Why sleeping in a tent matters. The works. There is plenty of the elements of this stuff out there, but I know of nothing bringing it all together into its own "mini-game".


More science fiction. Numeria doesn't get enough love- understandable from Paizo given its controversality.

Non-evil undead.


Ipslore the Red wrote:
Non-evil undead.

In a limited fashion, the White Necromancer from Kobold Press's New Paths line (included in the Compendium) can work necromancy spells without the 'evil' descriptor, creating non-evil undead. Not quite the same as a bestiary full of the restless but not-evil dead, but a step in that direction!

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

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StarMartyr365 wrote:

Vehicles.

I'd like to see a book that expands on the rules in Ultimate Combat. More vehicles and customization.

SM

Might I shamelessly plug 10 Pirate Ships and Vehicles of War, both of which are 5 star rated.

Might I also recommend Rite Publishing's #30 Evocative Vehicles. It doesn't have a great review, but I enjoyed it (to each their own).

Liberty's Edge

Changing Man wrote:
Ipslore the Red wrote:
Non-evil undead.
In a limited fashion, the White Necromancer from Kobold Press's New Paths line (included in the Compendium) can work necromancy spells without the 'evil' descriptor, creating non-evil undead. Not quite the same as a bestiary full of the restless but not-evil dead, but a step in that direction!

I could not have said it better myself! Well, I might have also added ...

The New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press collects all the New Paths classes into a brand new print/pdf book, along with a number of cool, brand-new things inside - 2 of which are exclusive to this book!

  • The popular savant class from the pages of Kobold Quarterly, completely updated and expanded!

  • A brand-new spell-less ranger variant class, the skin-changer! That's right, instead of a favored enemy and animal companion, the skin-changer can shapeshift into animal form (using a specialized form of wild shape called animal shape) right out of the gate at first level! He also gets a specialized type of combat style, called Animal Combat that makes the skin-changer one heck of a combatant when in animal form

  • Last but not least, the theurge, a base class that combines arcane and divine in new and interesting ways! :)


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Adult oriented material. Not porn. But stuff with a darker, more mature bend than the paizo offered items.


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Craig Bonham 141 wrote:
Adult oriented material. Not porn. But stuff with a darker, more mature bend than the paizo offered items.

The Kaidan setting of Japanese horror by Rite Publishing is pretty dark, and definitely darker than anything from Paizo, and no porn at all. Look at the Up from Darkness one-shot module for a good example. It is based on Kaidan's death and reincarnation mechanic, which is very dark and esoteric.


Alan_Beven wrote:

A bolt on to the magic system that allows for much more epic casting. Kinda like get 20 casters together and they can cast an uber fireball that wipes out a town.

I've been using the Incantations system to handle this. There was some brief coverage of it in 3.5, and I think 4E has it as well. Two supplements that do a solid job of laying groundwork for Pathfinder are "Incantations in Theory and Practice," and "Incantations from the Other Side." I use the lesser incantations ideas for common ritual/hedge magic, and I have worked up siege magic with effective spell levels of nine and much higher. It works very well for epic magic, with epic consequences, and giving magical ability to anyone with the appropriate skills who wants to take the risk.

Alan_Beven wrote:
I want to be able to run a multi transport type long range journey involving horseback, wagons, ships etc. 4000 miles or more. Requiring hirelings, and other NPCs. Would like to have details on costs of setting up this type of thing. Wages, weights of items, how much provisions, types of trade goods, etc. also the types of encounters that would occur, broken wheels, impassible terrain etc. Basically how to establish and maintain profitable trade routes, as well as just general interesting long range travel.

Check out "A Magical Society: Silk Road" for some great work on this topic. It is targeted for D20, but is easily applicable to what you want. Actually, check out everything in the "Magical Society" series, as I have yet to be disappointed with anything they published. They may cover the details you want for a medieval village in one of their publications as well.


Ipslore the Red wrote:

More science fiction. Numeria doesn't get enough love- understandable from Paizo given its controversality.

Non-evil undead.

Numenera is not available to use with the pathfinder rpg for 3pp due to the limited licence its offered under.

For other science fiction I point you to Santiago: Myth of the Far Future from E.N. Publishing


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
idilippy wrote:

For creatures I would second Dark Fey, the Midgard Bestiary, and the Tome of Horrors Complete (the three I own) from that list. I'd add to that the fantastic Book of Monster Templates and 101 Not So Simple Monster Templates by Rite Publishing, both of which add lots of great options to modify existing creatures.

As for me, as a DM primarily I would like to see more NPC stats, particularly books of monsters with class levels, and I'm always eager to find more books with treasures for my players to find. I think I am pretty full of player races, classes, archetypes, and feats (far, far too many feats as is for me).

Idilippy, I second the recommendation for 101 Not So Simple Monster Templates.

When it comes to NPC stats and monsters with class levels, have you heard of Scions of Evil and the 100% Crunch line from Raging Swan Press?


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Rite Publishing wrote:
Ipslore the Red wrote:

More science fiction. Numeria doesn't get enough love- understandable from Paizo given its controversality.

Non-evil undead.

Numenera is not available to use with the pathfinder rpg for 3pp due to the limited licence its offered under.

For other science fiction I point you to Santiago: Myth of the Far Future from E.N. Publishing

Right, you can't use the campaign settingm but if you publish Sword and Laser archetypes, equipment, monsters, ect it could be generic or new setting specific material in that vein. . .


Rite Publishing wrote:
Ipslore the Red wrote:

More science fiction. Numeria doesn't get enough love- understandable from Paizo given its controversality.

Non-evil undead.

Numenera is not available to use with the pathfinder rpg for 3pp due to the limited licence its offered under.

For other science fiction I point you to Santiago: Myth of the Far Future from E.N. Publishing

Oh, I wasn't trying to suggest anyone use Numeria, just using it as an example of scifi since it's the only area that's explicitly scifi, as I recall. Even space is mostly Lovecraftian. I appreciate the suggestion, and Santiago seems good.


Craig Bonham 141 wrote:
Adult oriented material. Not porn. But stuff with a darker, more mature bend than the paizo offered items.

One of my self-published adventures gets dark (18+) without getting weird. I humbly suggest giving The Mysterious Peaks of Baranthar a look. :)


Rite Publishing wrote:
Numenera is not available to use with the pathfinder rpg for 3pp due to the limited licence its offered under.

Are you referring to Numeria, the region of Golarion, or Numenera, the game by Monte Cook? Because, despite the name similarities, they are rather different beasts.


Spelljammer/outerdark/planets stuff

Webstore Gninja Minion

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Craig Bonham 141 wrote:
Adult oriented material. Not porn. But stuff with a darker, more mature bend than the paizo offered items.

The Pathfinder Compatibility License specifically prohibits adult content—"You must use your best efforts to preserve the high standard of our trademarks. You may not use this License for products that the general public would classify as "adult content," offensive, or inappropriate for minors."

For Spelljammer fans check out It Came from the Stars from Zombie Sky Press.
For incantations, rituals, and similarly themed magic, Incantations from the Other Side (Zombie Sky Press again) and the Pact Magic books from Radiance House.
Science fiction, don't miss Santiago from EN Publishing.

I think other people covered the Magical Society books from Expeditious Retreat, but don't miss the Kobold Guide to Worldbuilding from Kobold Press.

Dark Archive

StarMartyr365 wrote:

Vehicles.

I'd like to see a book that expands on the rules in Ultimate Combat. More vehicles and customization.
SM

I remember trying to write up some spells to interact with those vehicle rules for a Wayfinder article (to speed up one's own ship, or slow down a pursuing ship, on the sea, for instance) and finding myself unable to really grok the vehicle movement rules, and giving up completely on that.

The last thing I want is something as fiddly and overbuilt as GURPS Vehicles, but a different exploration of vehicles, and their interactions with other game systems (skills, feats, spells) could be neat.

Some development and examples of how mounted combat works (lance counts as two-handed for what? mount's charge applies to it's AC / attack roles, but not yours?) could also go in such a book.


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I'll leave this here for any interested


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You know what is REALLY missing from 3PP? Teaming Up.

There are a few 3PP who have team up to work together but the numbers are really small. I think the biggest team-up in 3PP is with Dreamscarred Press' Psionics. I mean how many of you would like to see A Legendary Games and Frog God team up to do something? How about Rite Publishing and Raging Swan? LPJ Design and Rogue Genius Games team up means someone PC will be dying? And how many more 3PP can be added to the mix?

Now THAT is what is missing from 3PP.


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LMPjr007 wrote:

You know what is REALLY missing from 3PP? Teaming Up.

There are a few 3PP who have team up to work together but the numbers are really small. I think the biggest team-up in 3PP is with Dreamscarred Press' Psionics. I mean how many of you would like to see A Legendary Games and Frog God team up to do something? How about Rite Publishing and Raging Swan? LPJ Design and Rogue Genius Games team up means someone PC will be dying? And how many more 3PP can be added to the mix?

Now THAT is what is missing from 3PP.

Yes!

I'd like to see Red Goblin's Legendary Levels team up with Legendary Games. That would be such a Legendary combination, anything they did together would surely be Rite:)


Liz Courts wrote:
Craig Bonham 141 wrote:
Adult oriented material. Not porn. But stuff with a darker, more mature bend than the paizo offered items.
The Pathfinder Compatibility License specifically prohibits adult content—"You must use your best efforts to preserve the high standard of our trademarks. You may not use this License for products that the general public would classify as "adult content," offensive, or inappropriate for minors."

Well...dammit.

I find this very disappointing and unnecessarily limiting.


Well, Paizo would disagree with you on the "unnecessary" bit, else why limit themselves and others?
Why do you think the limitation is unnecessary?

Scarab Sages Contributor

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LMPjr007 wrote:
You know what is REALLY missing from 3PP? Teaming Up.

How about Legendary, and Kobold Press, and Rogue Genius?

You know, as a random example.

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

A legendary rogue kobold? Is that a 2nd level kobold?


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
LMPjr007 wrote:
You know what is REALLY missing from 3PP? Teaming Up.

How about Legendary, and Kobold Press, and Rogue Genius?

You know, as a random example.

Maybe if you did your morning press releases AFTER I made this post, it would have made MORE sense, you know. :-P

Publisher, Dreamscarred Press

I'm always open for team-ups, the issue is always in having the time to work on something new with so much already being worked on.


Manimal wrote:

Well, Paizo would disagree with you on the "unnecessary" bit, else why limit themselves and others?

Why do you think the limitation is unnecessary?

Because I think the game can support many different types of game. It can handle uber-super powered mythos, low powered grit, casual play, intense play and I think that variety should include materials of a darker bend. If Paizo doesn't want to produce those items I see absolutely no problem with that. Makes sense for a large business that wants to have as broad a market as possible to not do something that would alienate a potentially large sector of that market. But why prevent a 3pp from creating something for a niche market?

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

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Craig Bonham 141 wrote:
But why prevent a 3pp from creating something for a niche market?

Simple, the Pathfinder name is on every book. This is a name currently on a card game, minis from several companies, comic books and more. They don't want their name associated with something like the Book of Erotic Fantasy.

That is fine by me. If I wanted to do something like that, all I'd have to do is to take off the PFRPG compatible logo and ask my lawyer for the appropriate language to indicate compatibility while keeping me out of legal hot water.


To answer a few at once:

Ipslore the Red wrote:

More science fiction. Numeria doesn't get enough love- understandable from Paizo given its controversality.

Craig Bonham 141 wrote:
Adult oriented material. Not porn. But stuff with a darker, more mature bend than the paizo offered items.

We did the Necropunk campaign setting (and a few follow up books). It's a more "grown-up" scifi setting (and by that I mean more focused on social aspects of roleplaying, more philosophical elements, etc)

Ps: And we are very down for team-ups.

Liberty's Edge

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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
LMPjr007 wrote:
You know what is REALLY missing from 3PP? Teaming Up.

How about Legendary, and Kobold Press, and Rogue Genius?

You know, as a random example.

Sounds like the ideal 3PP team up!

Contributor

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Marc Radle wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
LMPjr007 wrote:
You know what is REALLY missing from 3PP? Teaming Up.

How about Legendary, and Kobold Press, and Rogue Genius?

You know, as a random example.

Sounds like the ideal 3PP team up!

Seconded!

Contributor

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Well, we sort of have a Green Ronin and Rogue Genius combo--albeit not officially. Owen and I both worked on the Freeport book. Now, if Owen will sneak some Stan! art in there, we'll cover the team. :)

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