Interesting article about PFO and sandbox games


Pathfinder Online

Goblin Squad Member

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/14/some-assembly-required-is-this-real ly-the-sandbox-renaissance/

~ seem to be having trouble posting links lately: random spaces seem to be inserted by the forum formatting. This time between the two 'l's in really

Goblin Squad Member

Here's the link

Goblin Squad Member

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Here's the bit about PFO:

Quote:

Then we have Pathfinder Online, which is one of the MMO genre's more noteworthy Kickstarter successes and which has built a substantial fan following for itself based on the promise of its no-holds-barred design.

The problem with Pathfinder, apart from the PvP-only aspect that I've broken down several times before, is something that GoblinWorks CEO Ryan Dancey calls "minimum viable product." The thinking seems to be that all a dev team need do is build a combat engine and associated conflict systems and then throw players into the mix and let them make of it what they will.

I'm sure this is a cost effective approach, and it's probably ideal for "small, agile" indie development teams like GoblinWorks. Will it make for a full-featured persistent world, though, or just another combat lobby? Time will tell, but the bar for sandbox games is Ultima Online and Star Wars: Galaxies, not PlanetSide or its fantasy equivalent. In other words, the bar is titles that have a huge range of non-combat gameplay to go along with their ultraviolence. The fact that said titles were possible over a decade ago and on a fraction of today's budgets is also an interesting bit of trivia.

Maybe Pathfinder will work its way up to being a full-fledged sandbox, assuming it limits itself to PvP at release. And then again maybe it won't because aside from the hardcore early adopters and the smallish open-world PvP crowd, how many potential sandbox fans are going to pay to play what currently amounts to another Darkfall?

Goblin Squad Member

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I think thats a reasonable thing to say.

I find it funny that people keep bringing up how much they loved UO, but dont play it.

Goblin Squad Member

I wouldn't say that was a very positive view of PFO.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

I wouldn't say it's a review of PFO at all. There's a negative statement about "Minimum Viable Product", but frankly I share their concerns, if not the characterization that it will be little more than a combat engine.

Goblin Squad Member

I certainly would not mind if the focus had been on more "sand boxy" things to do other than PVP. It would have lessened the worry over first impressions for some, but that is just a trade off for the first impressions of others anyway and has been explained repeatedly. Besides, I am sure that ship sailed long ago.

Goblin Squad Member

This is why I hope there is already some substantial PvE in the form of killing monsters in the game at EE.

I can see how getting the wrong impression about PFO in its EE-state is giving Ryan sleepless nights, when pre-views are already mentioning it.

The problem is that any temporary measure that is implemented to restrict the Murder-simulator syndrome(like for instance only PvP in duels), may become embraced by the players and/or attract the wrong demographic?

How was Eve in its early stages?

Goblin Squad Member

Tyncale wrote:

This is why I hope there is already some substantial PvE in the form of killing monsters in the game at EE.

I can see how getting the wrong impression about PFO in its EE-state is giving Ryan sleepless nights, when pre-views are already mentioning it.

The problem is that any temporary measure that is implemented to restrict the Murder-simulator syndrome(like for instance only PvP in duels), may become embraced by the players and/or attract the wrong demographic?

How was Eve in its early stages?

The earliest "stage" I played EVE was in 2004, then I picked it up again in 2005, then again in 2006. I played it pretty straight through from 2006 - 2014.

EVE has been pretty consistent throughout as far as its PVP, and PVE been concerned. Sure there have been a few tweaks, some even major, but overall it is roughly the same game.

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks for the clarification. After the game went live, were there any important features implemented that had a large impact on PvP?

I guess Eve was a bit further along in development when it became known to a larger public.

It may be too optimistic to think that the 1 to 1.5 years of EE will see a very steady *natural* growth in playerbase: I could see it suffer from the occasional (mini)exodus of players after certain new features get implemented, temporary measures are taken out and/or players get fed up of waiting for a certain feature that is taking too long to implement in their eyes.

I hope that frequent nice offers in the Goblinworks Store will keep bringing in new players so that there will always be enough players to test the new features. off course every new feature implemented will also draw players, recurring and new.

Goblin Squad Member

Did SWG have open world pvp? I never played it, and from everything I've heard about it's reputation I can't even guess.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Proxima Sin wrote:
Did SWG have open world pvp? I never played it, and from everything I've heard about it's reputation I can't even guess.

Somewhat; you could become a member of the Imperial or Rebel faction, flag yourself as such, and then fight flagged members of the other faction. A handful of actions flagged you for a time as part of taking that action.

Also, 0% of the players could become Jedi, and Bounty Hunters had lots of mechanics for hunting Jedi. I'm less familiar with those rules, but there was a three-strikes rule against Jedi: Die three times, and you can't play a Jedi anymore.

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Proxima Sin wrote:
Did SWG have open world pvp? I never played it, and from everything I've heard about it's reputation I can't even guess.

Somewhat; you could become a member of the Imperial or Rebel faction, flag yourself as such, and then fight flagged members of the other faction. A handful of actions flagged you for a time as part of taking that action.

Also, 0% of the players could become Jedi, and Bounty Hunters had lots of mechanics for hunting Jedi. I'm less familiar with those rules, but there was a three-strikes rule against Jedi: Die three times, and you can't play a Jedi anymore.

0% ?

Was that a typo?

I was actually on the server where the first player became a Jedi, and I saw him in action killing Sith Lords on Dantoine ( if I remember correctly).

Later, SOE decided to screw the pooch and buckled to player pressure and introduced the holocrons to give every player a road map to become a Jedi.

SWGs major failing was that it suffered from the most serious case if Flavor of the Month classes I have experienced in an MMO.

Goblin Squad Member

Okay so you had to opt in to pvp through some sort of known action.

I was thinking about all the things I've heard of SWG's (mostly glowing) reputation and cases of pvp were never in the top highlights, maybe PO should start planting the thought of "SWG with swords" into people's minds. Wait...

CEO, Goblinworks

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Tyncale wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. After the game went live, were there any important features implemented that had a large impact on PvP?

Yes, it has been massively evolved.

When it shipped, you could do one of four things:

1: Mine ore from asteroids

2: Run very vanilla cookie cutter "missions" to earn in-game money. Some of those missions involved fighting NPC forces that produced loot.

3: Turn ore into useful in-game objects and sell them to other players

4: Blow other players up and loot the wrecks

#1 & #2 also imply a sub-game of transportation, and #4 interacted with that sub-game by making it worthwhile to ambush and loot transporter wrecks.

This is, very, very generically, what we're shooting for as we begin Early Enrollment.

The first major evolution EVE made was the introduction of Player Owned Stations. This allowed people to make persistent changes to the game world by adding structures to it. Those structures replicated facilities available in NPC stations and that in turn made having a persistent Corporation social structure to manage those resources meaningful.

The second major evolution of EVE was the introduction of sovereignty. Using the Player Owned Station mechanic, some star systems could be "claimed". Controlling star systems unlocked additional structures that could be built. The need to manage many Player Owned Stations and administer many star systems in turn made having a persistent Alliance social structure (a cohesive group of Corporations) meaningful.

The game was released in May 2003, and the Exodus expansion in November of 2004 completed that second evolution.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Bluddwolf wrote:
DeciusBrutus wrote:
Proxima Sin wrote:
Did SWG have open world pvp? I never played it, and from everything I've heard about it's reputation I can't even guess.

Somewhat; you could become a member of the Imperial or Rebel faction, flag yourself as such, and then fight flagged members of the other faction. A handful of actions flagged you for a time as part of taking that action.

Also, 0% of the players could become Jedi, and Bounty Hunters had lots of mechanics for hunting Jedi. I'm less familiar with those rules, but there was a three-strikes rule against Jedi: Die three times, and you can't play a Jedi anymore.

0% ?

Was that a typo?

I was actually on the server where the first player became a Jedi, and I saw him in action killing Sith Lords on Dantoine ( if I remember correctly).

Later, SOE decided to screw the pooch and buckled to player pressure and introduced the holocrons to give every player a road map to become a Jedi.

SWGs major failing was that it suffered from the most serious case if Flavor of the Month classes I have experienced in an MMO.

No, it wasn't a typo. "0% of players got to play Jedi" is accurate to three significant figures (Pre-NGE; it makes a lot of sense to distinguish that patch as creating an entirely new game.)

One of the major failures was in encouraging players to master the crafting professions for the sake of having mastered them, breaking the economy by flooding the market with items grinded for experience (and IIRC giving the crafter more experience for having their stuff used), driving a race-to-the-bottom that obliterated people who tried to play the economic game.

Goblin Squad Member

Pre-Jump to Light Speed, which was before NGE, there was a Jedi on the Ahazi server. He was reportedly the first in the game, or at least the first on the server. He had discovered by accident the story line quest to become a Jedi.

He refused to reveal his knowledge, smartly so. Then with either Jump to Light Speed, or perhaps just before, the holocrons came out and gave the path to everyone. That I know was before NGE, because I did not play any time much after JTLS.

CEO, Goblinworks

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Given how that system worked, I think "discovered on accident" has to be code for "leaked info from developers".

Goblin Squad Member

I played the first year of SWG and I recall a few Jedi but the way you unlocked one was by Mastering 3 or 4 of the other classes. The tricky part was that you didn't know which of those classes you had to Master, it was chosen randomly when you created your account. Thankfully, the majority of the classes were interesting to play.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Given how that system worked, I think "discovered on accident" has to be code for "leaked info from developers".

If it was "Master three or randomly chosen professions" I think that at least one person would complete that without prompting. If they weren't completely random, that could make it more or less likely (e.g. "master commando, master image designer, and master droid crafter" would be less likely than "Master medic, master combat medic, master doctor".

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:
Given how that system worked, I think "discovered on accident" has to be code for "leaked info from developers".
If it was "Master three or randomly chosen professions" I think that at least one person would complete that without prompting. If they weren't completely random, that could make it more or less likely (e.g. "master commando, master image designer, and master droid crafter" would be less likely than "Master medic, master combat medic, master doctor".

*boggle* Commando/Image Designer was my main! Just sayin'...

CEO, Goblinworks

You have to figure about 1% of the player base is ultra-hard core. They'll do everything available in the game. Becoming Jedi was the badge of MMO honor at the time. SWG had about 400k players in its first year. So 4,000 people (at least) tried everything. From what I remember there were not 4,000 jedi. Most servers had a couple, and a couple of people who bragged they had jedi but wouldn't log them in or risk them. If I remember correctly if you used a Jedi power, virtually the whole server got a giant "there are jedi here" message or something similar and the hunt was on.

You can read this message about the first character to have a confirmed Jedi on the game to see how ridiculous the opaque nature of the process was.

CEO, Goblinworks

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I wanted to say a few more things about SWG Jedi because they speak to design intent.

The Jedi process in SWG was pretty much that holy grail of what some players say they want in an MMO - the chance to be one of the very, very few to do something extraordinary, achieved through massive effort, and recognized by their peers as a real "achievement". The people who had Jedi characters in SWG before the changed game that replaced the original system had trophies.

There are so many problems inherent in that system. For starters a large number of people learned what it would take to be a Jedi, looked at the time they were willing to sink into the game, realized they'd never get there, and just cancelled on the spot. The fact that you could be a Jedi but that the real-world cost in time was so outrageous was a huge turn-off.

Because so few Jedi characters were in the game the Jedi systems were buggy as hell. They were just never as well tested as the other parts of the game system. And when you're running a live game, and you have 400,000 paying customers, of which maybe 400 have Jedi characters, guess where you spend your limited budget of programmers? Not on fixing Jedi bugs, that's where. So you're telling your most hard core committed customers that you value them less than everyone else. What does that do for your evangelical marketing?

This particular system required characters to invest in mastering professions basically randomly. So the result was that people spent the time and effort to macro the hell out of the game system so that they, the humans, would not suffer the tedium such mastery required. Since the professions needed were totally random there was no way to intelligently approach the problem so you just started with "A" on the profession list and started mastering them in order. The impact on the in-game economy was horrific as crafters generated endless amounts of items they couldn't care less about - they were crafting to get better at crafting not to drive an economy. Certain mobs had to be killed in endless mountains of bodies, so people basically lined up to grind those mobs meaning all the loot those mobs dropped was pouring into the game economy utterly out of proportion to what the designers intended or expected. And on and on and on - you basically put a bunch of people in a situation where massive overproduction and virtually no consumption blew up game system after game system after game system.

And in the end the real mistake was utterly mis-aligning the game with the customer's expectations. If you make a "Star Wars" game, what percentage of your players do you think want to be a Jedi? It's a lot more than a 10th of a percent, I promise you. It's completely core to the fantasy of Star Wars to master the Force and use a lightsaber. The ability to reward a tiny, tiny fraction of the players with the thing many of them were seeking meant that a significant number of those players would forever be deeply dissatisfied with the game experience. Nothing would ever really make them happy, and that makes them extremely likely to quit when they encounter other, lesser problems.

These are the reasons that designers learned a key lesson from SWG: Don't make highly desirable content so gated that you can't reasonably expect to achieve it if you are an "average" player. Don't make games where a 10th of a percent of the players get to do something ultra-cool. Those players - they'll love you forever. But the other 99.9% of your paying customers will hold grudges against you that can never be healed. And they'll quit and go chance the thrill in the competitors' game as soon as they have a better option.

So modern day MMO design says that the "best" characters in the game aren't the best because the game rewards them with highly unique rare capabilities or gear. They're the "best" because they are constantly trying to push the envelope of what is possible along a path that anyone can walk - they just walk it further and with more focus than most of their peers. Their bragging rights come from things unrelated to mechanical benefit, but from "firsts" or "mosts". In a game where the First M Is Massive, the word Exclusive should never appear in the design.

Goblin Squad Member

I never had any intention if playing a Jedi, even when they made it easier to know how to become one. I quit SWG because they never filled in the Master Smuggler box with abilities.

The second and last straws was when they finally added a contraband system, Droid Engineers and Imperial Officers were better smugglers than smugglers. The 10 compartments in a droid were not scanned for their contents, and neither were Imperial Officers.

Goblin Squad Member

There were some really great things about SWG that I loved that had nothing to do with Jedi.

What made me quit, which highlights something Ryan said, was that the world became filled with macro bots. When it was more common to run into a bot than a real person I found no more reason to play.

It was that reason that I learned to hate bots and macros. They just take all the game play out of the game.

Goblin Squad Member

SWG was at its most successful when there were few to no Jedi. The Jedi weren't even the point of the game and it didn't go to shit until after they made it a race to become Jedi. Everyone quit doing everything that supported the economy and social structure of the game and started grinding to become Jedi.

Jedi are the reason I quit SWG, not because I couldn't be one, but because everyone else quit playing the game so that they could become one.

Goblin Squad Member

Hm, I suspect the devs are not making the game this way (as per recent comment: divide 9 alignments then allocate is not how that is being designed), but on the topic of the "special jedi" experience, even if such an eg shows how it does not work, I think it would be good if PFO can transition it's classes to role features that are really encapsulate the spirit of the class in some interesting experience:

.
.
.

Fighter -
Rogue -
Cleric - could there be a religious apostle style here?
Wizard - books/library fits v well.

Barbarian -
Bard - musical items / bands
Paladin - highly tuned to alignment/reputation = meta-police ?
Druid - animal transmogrification ie animal avatars
Ranger - exploration and map-making expertise?
Monk - martial-arts is kinda unique, collecting styles/rival schools?
Sorcerer -

I think this if faulty approach does fuel the imagination however. I can't think as yet of idea for the blanks that help make them come alive beyond the usual combat bot classes represent in most mmorpgs.

Goblin Squad Member

To try and fill in your blanks.

Fighter, makes for a good warlord/military officer class.
Rogue, could have all kinds of criminal experience if implemented properly. Is there really anything wrong with pickpocketing and breaking and entering styles of gameplay?
Barbarian, probably should be the most targeted toward straight combat as its primary experience.
Sorcerer, is kind of like the magical analog to the barbarian in my mind, they should be the purest blow stuff up with magic class.

Other ideas to help make classes 'pop' outside of combat.
Cleric, spreading religion, and combating 'heresy' or opposing deities can make for a very different kind of play style especially if good abilities are gated behind achievements related to these kinds of things.

Wizard, more than just books and libraries, Wizards could have a dangerous research angle placed on them. Say there is a portal spawning demons as part of an escalation Wizards might need to actually study the portal rather than just close it to further their advance. To put the books and library spin back on it, the Wizard might then write a book about it which other Wizards could use, not to gain the same knowledge, but to create their own portal to the Abyss to study. It fits well with the whole Wizard does dangerous experiment that they think they can control and it gets out of hand.

Druid and Ranger bother could benefit from systems in game that require them to maintain some degree of natural balance in the environment. especially if Civilization pretty much ensured disruption of natural balance. Rangers could also have a focus on being better hunters getting better results from hunting kills, or even their advanced tracking skills forcing spawns or rare elusive creatures.

Monks, while I think all classes could benefit from some kind of Master/Apprentice relationship I think it the monk probably fits best as making it a major focus of the class. At advanced levels it could be required that the Monk becomes a Sifu/Sensei and starts taking students to advance. While meditation is a cool part of Monk fantasy I'm not sure that it would make for good game play but you could require a monk to track down places with a high degree of natural balance or spiritually strong places to meditate.

Goblin Squad Member

The list above us missing two definite classes in the game: Assassins and Necromancers

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
The list above us missing two definite classes in the game: Assassins and Necromancers

Are they not specific sub-sets of Rogue and Wizard respectively?

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks for reading Hark.

The two things I'm trying to connect are:

1. User-experience
2. Connection to the rest of the game systems

So for example, Bards have a very powerful user-experience if their instruments generate music as per players inputting into such a system. It's emergent and creative and collaborative and social experience. This is the user-input experience of being a Bard (settlement angle) as well as the Bard in combat I'm sure can do all-sorts in the combat system (a given). It also connects very easily with settlements via perhaps in Inns for down-time and removing effects for groups of players or buffing them to buffing settlement indexes for eg.

This I think is great eg of a Bard making the player a bard and their character as part of the nodes in the game web of systems.

Again, using the 1. and 2. above method:

Druids transmogrify into animals this is very powerful user-experience because your avatar has changed (locomotion, viewpoint and who knows what else perhaps sniffing out valuable herbs and so on). On the question of how does being an animal connect to the game systems, then in terms of locomotion it might mean undetected by savage mobs, faster movement to spy perhaps from on high as a bird, perhaps as a bear the druid takes on great strength to aid a party. It's not as compelling as the Bard eg, but populating the wilderness with animals via druid form could add atmosphere to the game world if those animals are mostly a way for druids to spy/explore non-violently?! like having sentient wildlife making the world feel more alive and information of groups keeping tabs on other groups via trespassing?

The wizard eg of books is very compelling because it's already confirmed that books are core to the way the role operates, but it fits the wider community of creating a library for other wizards perhaps to want to use , and a settlement creating a valuable Library of Alexandria resource that could have highly economic/training opportunities?

I think these are really compelling ways for players to experience the world as well as fit the system of building systems that integrate other systems which is the core focus to illustrate:

Economy -> Skill-Training -> Buildings -> Settlements -> Player-formed-groups -> requirements of settlement to develop -> new members -> new members and all members in fact doing useful things that cumulatively scale up and develop wider opportunities for all members to skill-train and engage with the world -> interesting experiences -> such as making music for coin and renown + fun!

I suspect for Fighter it might connect into Army/Soldier/Operating engines of war and of course expansive armoury. So again that's probably a good fit both user-experience in the art of war in all flavours and of course scaling up to generals and formations (tactical).

=

Again this is side-stepping a lot of the Combat-System that these roles no doubt will be heavily involved in: damage, defence, support and group dynamics.

Maybe as with Fighter, some roles such as Rogue will have their combat utility, and for the above and will slide in with other roles such as fiddling with traps (dungeons), sabotaging buildings and structures (settlements and sappers) and of course feeding other roles such as Assassins (very unique gameplay experience)?

Goblin Squad Member

Yeah I forgot Necros. They in the blog iirc "Your Pathfinder Online Character". That's one to think about.

But it's probably also about blending of roles via the skill-training giant tree and there being distinct branches on that tree (the core rulebook classes -> core roles for combat). And associated roles that are more specific such as Assassin, Soldier, Diplomat, Preacher?, Builder etc.

In fact Builder could be part of the crafter branch I suppose which perhaps forks much sooner down the tree-trunk?

The rationale is really to point out that Jedi in SWG as above deeply flawed, but the appeal of players finding an experience that provides an interesting experience is to capture the imagination via the user experience as well as how well the role connects up the rest of the game, it seems to me. Tbh, all I've heard of SWG is that dancers, merchants, droids et al lots of choice for diverse experiences that people liked, not just Jedi.

Goblin Squad Member

Maybe it's just me, but I find the most compelling experience I can have in a game is that of having a real quantifiable impact on the world. Stuff actually changes because I do something.

As such I don't actually find animal transformation to be that interesting or compelling, it is just a visually distinct combat/stealth power. The real impact isn't that different from a fighter with a sword, or a rogue hiding in the shadows.

Certainly, a group of player druids shape shifted to wolves stalking another player using the same tactics NPC wolves might use creates a distinct PVP experience, but it doesn't create a compelling one because there is nothing in the experience that drives player behaviors any more than a guy with a sword running up and stabbing the player. There is no great motivation to do it, and it doesn't create further motivation to do anything beyond a revenge cycle.

Goblin Squad Member

Hark wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but I find the most compelling experience I can have in a game is that of having a real quantifiable impact on the world. Stuff actually changes because I do something.

As such I don't actually find animal transformation to be that interesting or compelling, it is just a visually distinct combat/stealth power. The real impact isn't that different from a fighter with a sword, or a rogue hiding in the shadows.

Certainly, a group of player druids shape shifted to wolves stalking another player using the same tactics NPC wolves might use creates a distinct PVP experience, but it doesn't create a compelling one because there is nothing in the experience that drives player behaviors any more than a guy with a sword running up and stabbing the player. There is no great motivation to do it, and it doesn't create further motivation to do anything beyond a revenge cycle.

I like your idea of a pack of wolves, that calls themselves "The Wolves of Willoughby Chase"!

As I said that was not the best eg of connection systems to the game world. However I take your emphasis that player interaction leading to change on the game world is important. I don't think they're mutually exclusive however.

The idea of transmogrification I think is imaginatively interesting if it has a function and a change of gameplay (see the bard music ticks all these things). So the idea is to take this idea and work out what function it might yield. The idea of a psychic link to a bird of prey for example (what a coincidence...) I think has merit because:

1. We don't want flying to trivialize transport or locomotion
2. We might want flying for the experience of being a fantastical world where characters do such feats.
3. What purpose would it serve flying?

I think if you had the psychic link idea then the druid is not moving, but looking, so flying around could act as a sort of CCTV system for players flying around eye-in-the-sky for settlement territory security or indeed for tracking traffic and so on.

Tbh, I like the 1. user experience aspect, I'm still not convinced it links into other systems successfully yet however, given you might want characters tied to the ground involved in scouting and that part of pvp.

But the idea originated iirc as a work-around to:

Q. Will flight be possible?

We won't have flight for players until some point after Open Enrollment begins, and possibly never. We don't have any graphical limitations that would prevent adding flight capability for characters at a later date, but flying imposes lots of balance questions for PvE combat, PvP combat, wars, and transporting goods. We'll need to have lots of data on how players approach all of these activities when subject to gravity, and then consider carefully whether and how we add the ability to fly.

Possibly useful as intel for formation combat feeding the general movements and postioning on the ground? Then having a system to fire at such "satellites" to knock out your oppononents intel? I also got the idea from Game Of Thrones (the Warg ability).

=

Concerning the other ideas the Cleric and Paladin again, I've not really fleshed them out, a bit "out there" tbh. The others colored so far I think are pretty darn good even if I say so myself. :)

To loop back to the article: The criticism levelled at PFO is PvP-gameplay. It is highly consequential icing another player, but what he says is that UO/SWG were not only about that but about imaginative/interesting experiences via a plethora of roles (dancer, fishing etc). These fire people imaginations and interest in the world and what the avatar interact with and differentiate themselves. All these roles are going to become combat paths but how to make them more than just pvp: Play a tune, spread your wings, write your books... et al. Edit to add: From the other perspective just as relevant as "sandbox =/= pvp" is "does anyone actually role-lay in mmorpgs these days?" Again it comes back to role-play being aligned with the game if players are playing roles where their relationship with other players is what makes the role important and therefore playing a role that has an impact on the gameworld; often some economic knock-on effect via specializing a task to perform.

Goblin Squad Member

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Here is another article about "Sandpark" MMOs (Hybrid of sand Box and Theme Park):

ArchAge is the Sand Leaving the Box?

Goblin Squad Member

I skimmed that already Bludd. To be quite frank that has been my expectation for AA for about 3 years now as well as the delay in territory release.

I've always found mmorpgs as a game service shaft players in foreign territories. One big plus about GW angling for Western market.

CEO, Goblinworks

Anyone who thinks Trion has any meaningful impact on how the game is developed for the US market is kidding themselves. Trion isn't going to "fork" ArcheAge and run a different kind of game than the Koreans. Trion blew through over $200 million in capital making three games and is now trying to make its money from operating, not developing, new properties. The reported budget for ArcheAge was over $50 million and that was spent in China and Korea where your dollars go about 2x as far as they do in San Jose. Trion doesn't have the kind of money that would be required to fork the game and then deviate from the common core.

Trion is localizing not forking ArcheAge. They'll translate all the text and they may have some input on loot drops and costumes, and they may affect how "grindy" the game is (Asian games are about 10x as grindy as Western games for cultural reasons too deep to describe here), but the fundamentals of the game and the game systems are being built by XL, not Trion.

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