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I think it would be beneficial for any GMs that run the Iomedae encounter from Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth to post their groups' play experiences here for other GMs to review. Most beneficial would be stories from GMs that ran the encounter more-or-less as presented in the book (minor modifications would be fine, but complete re-writes make the data less useful). This thread isn't for theorycrafting the encounter (there's an entire thread already devoted to that), but is for real "rubber-meets-the-road" play experiences.
I plan to run this campaign eventually and, in my think-ahead planning, I'm trying to separate the discussion over the encounter from what actually takes place in gameplay and what I can forsee happening with my own group. My theory is that players (who shouldn't have read the encounter or know anything about it beforehand) won't be nearly as bothered by the specifics of the encounter as presented because they will lack insight into the text of the encounter (for instance, they never know about the potential for sonic damage if they don't trigger it).
There are a number of questions that might be helpful for each GM to answer about their individual group's experiences:
Basic party information (classes, races, alignments, any followers of Iomedae or other deities, etc.).
Did the PCs feel "kidnapped"?
How did the PCs behave in Iomedae's presence (were they humble, arrogant, hostile, flippant, ambivalent, etc.)?
Were the PCs able to answer Iomedae's questions (player knowledge, skill checks, etc.)?
Did the PCs trigger any negative effects from Iomedae (per the encounter text)?
How did the GM portray Iomedae's attitude toward the PCs?
What did the players think after the encounter was completed?
What, if any, modifications did the GM make to the encounter?
Is there any other useful insights the GM has after running the encounter?
I know there's been a great deal of negative discussion about this encounter and that James has expressed his surprise that people have reacted as negatively as they have. This thread is an attempt to separate the theory of the encounter from the reality of the encounter. From there, I think we (as a collective group) can gain some insight into how this encounter fleshes out in game and maybe extract some pearls of wisdom for future GMs to use.
-Skeld
It'll take awhile for content posts to appear here. Last thing I know, only one group has made it this far already. But I'll definitely post my experience when I get to it!
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Well ran the encounter but pretty much reworked the entire thing (One character had the trait that ends up making them a gods child this case Iolmadae so removed all the damage parts and made the questioning more like Iolmodae trying to get a feel for her daughter and finding out more about her)
I did mention the way it is supposed to go down to the players afterward they pretty much all groaned and made the "Lawfull stupid." Commnent
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First...I do not play in Golarion...I do use chunks of the setting and my players were aware of Iomedae and seemed to be pleased that she was an intelligent lawful good paladin god.
Second...none of my players worshipped Iomedae...Mystra and the elven gods mostly.
They reacted as if they were kidnapped...no ifs or buts about it.
They were on guard but responded politely to the "goddess", yes they used finger quotes.
They tried to explain they were not her worshippers and did not knoe her history........choir blast for 5d6...
Major note...one player with a Link obsession has a tiny azata butterfly faerie as an apprentice for his character...she did not do well with the choir blast...
All players stated "That was a direct attack! I knew this was a trap all along"...more or less collectively on several variations...
They moved to power up for a fight to the finish figuring it was the goat demon lord in person...
I have as the faeries queen...Great Queen Maeve...2 foot 6 and a demigoddess armed with the emerald studded scepter from the last installment weilded as a quarter staff [my player thought it would be an appropriately sized gift].
To head off a TPK, and because I have Aroden restored as a demigod, I had Iomedae as a demigod herself...I stated the faerie attempted a god call to save her friends...
Her masters player [the Link obsessed one] said..."MMMkay, thats a 00 on a D%...go for it" Our standard rule providing you don't do it more than once a real time year.
I rolled the needed 00 it front of them...a sense of calm was restored on the table.
I had Great Queen Maeve appear smacking her emerald quarter staff against her palm, tossing a small cube with a "Big Red Button" prominently on its top to the "Link", she said as they pressed the button and vanished to the abyss...
"LEAVE MY WORSHIPPER ALONE!!!" and the sound of smacks aplenty.
Why the big red button? Everyone knows heroes are not too bright...and absolutely no one can resist pushing a bright red button!
When the adventure was over they got to see a severely battered Iomedae [with emerald shaped bruises across her face].
They were pleased...adventure continued on track...peace was in the land...and a "LAWFUL GOOD" demigoddess was given a smack on the wrist...erm face...for kidnapping another gods worshipper...this more than anything else seemed to please my gamers..."Actions should have consequences even for, and especially for, the gods" [my gamers voice of reason and party leader].
I ran this adventure last week and they do not read these forums.
Hope this was what you were hopeing for Skeld!
Thanks dude! We had loads of fun.
As an aside, my group's mage has glomped onto Baphomet's ivory double glaive and wants to make it into his signature staff...he reeeeaaaaallly likes ivory.
The other players are teasing him about being a rune lord poster boy...his response was..."Virtue Lord if you please!"
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It'll take awhile for content posts to appear here. Last thing I know, only one group has made it this far already. But I'll definitely post my experience when I get to it!
That's to be expected. I look forward to hearing about your experience with the encounter.
If your players have been spoiled on the pitfalls of the encounter, they are of course going to sidestep right around them. I think this needs to be a blind test to be valid.
Unfortunately, anybody who's so much as glanced at the forum this week has been spoiled all to hell on the encounter by the theorycraft thread. *g*
Right. The further the GM deviates from "as written," the less useful the data is going to be. It's also not as useful if any of the players have been spoiled on what the encounter entails.
Maybe adding the question "did the players have any foreknowledge of the encounter?" would be useful as well.Well ran the encounter but pretty much reworked the entire thing (One character had the trait that ends up making them a gods child this case Iolmadae so removed all the damage parts and made the questioning more like Iolmodae trying to get a feel for her daughter and finding out more about her)
I did mention the way it is supposed to go down to the players afterward they pretty much all groaned and made the "Lawfull stupid." Commnent
Interesting. So you removed the damage component, but did your PCs take any of the actions that would have triggered the damage if you had left it in?
Hope this was what you were hopeing for Skeld!
It's a data point!
-Skeld
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Well ran the encounter but pretty much reworked the entire thing (One character had the trait that ends up making them a gods child this case Iolmadae so removed all the damage parts and made the questioning more like Iolmodae trying to get a feel for her daughter and finding out more about her)
I did mention the way it is supposed to go down to the players afterward they pretty much all groaned and made the "Lawfull stupid." Commnent
Interesting. So you removed the damage component, but did your PCs take any of the actions that would have triggered the damage if you had left it in?
-Skeld
The second question would have counted as a fail since they diddent hesitate to answer (By this point they have several former cultists, Nurah, a redeemed succubuss and two retrievers who were reddemed via the forge thing in drezen so would see no reason to hesitate at the question.)
1)LG Iomedaean Inquisitor,CG non-decided Wizard,NG Oracle of Battle,CG Magus(follower of ascended PC from one of previous campaigns)and N(G) Druid of Green Faith.
2)They interpreted event as some kind of "shared dream",not kidnapping.
3)No hostility,but self-confident to the point of arrogance.They knew that they are best minions for the job.
4)Skill check for first question,philosophical discussion for second,and they interpreted third as "what are your plan for this mission".
So they give Iomedae their plan.
IN.GREAT.DETAIL.Because at this point,party themselves was planning retaliation raid for a long time.
5)No.
6)Royalty who is about to send them on a quest.Classic scene,really.
7)http://youtu.be/FStBkFIxu1U?t=5s 0.05-0.24 pretty much sums it up.
I have yet to see better morale boost from meeting with NPC in this decade.
8)Minimal.Translation,mostly.
Ah, but how did you present the scene? Did you alter anything? Did you use background music or other methods of mood-setting? Or just read it straight?
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Did you alter anything?
Minimal alteration.I added a few frescoes(sp?) descriptions and make Iomedae mention PCs by name.
Did you use background music or other methods of mood-setting?
I used transition from PC's briefing room in Drezen during said briefing to
Iomedae's cathedral toIomedae's appearance to
the rest of the encounter
Yes,music is my primary mood-setting tool,why do you ask?:)
Because it may be interesting to know if other GMs used sound to evoke mood when running this scene. And also because if this extra effort is done, it tells the players something subliminally and thus may allow the scene as-written to function more effectively.
It may also be why roll20.net includes music options. It's something to ponder...
(As a brief aside, if Paizo reduced the size of the fiction in these APs and added more maps for encounters that aren't provided maps otherwise, it would be a very nice extra. Those maps are far more useful than a story half of us don't read.)
Because it may be interesting to know if other GMs used sound to evoke mood when running this scene. And also because if this extra effort is done, it tells the players something subliminally and thus may allow the scene as-written to function more effectively.
I think that in scenes like this,aproppriate music is worth a thousand words.
It also may distract the players from the fact that Iomedae just implied that some of them may be cowards.Which it did.
Even inquisitor swallowed it.