Rat Disease Question about Saving Throws


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

How does this work?

Disease (Ex) Filth fever: Swarm—injury; save Fort DC 12; onset 1d3 days; frequency 1/day; effect 1d3 Dex damage and 1d3 Con damage; cure 2 consecutive saves. The save DC is Constitution-based.

When do I make players save?
Is this filth fever automatic on any successful hit?
Is it one initial save with no immediate effect if failed?
Is it two consecutive saves in 1d3 days later if failed?


I believe (and I will be corrected if I am wrong)

When you take damage from the swarm, you make a saving throw. If you succeed, you have not been infected yet. (Subsequent damage requires subsequent saving throws)

If you fail, you have been infected with Filth Fever which will start manifesting symptoms in 1d3 days (as early as tomorrow!, waking up with -1d3 CON and 1d3 DEX)

You make another saving throw, and if you fail, you'll take more ability damage. If you succeed, you do not.

Lather, rinse, repeat; until you have made 2 consecutive saves. And then you can start healing your ability damage.

Very Respectfully,
--Bacon


Better with Bacon wrote:
If you fail, you have been infected with Filth Fever which will start manifesting symptoms in 1d3 days (as early as tomorrow!, waking up with -1d3 CON and 1d3 DEX)

I think you have it right, but I would interpret it slightly different. After the 1d3 day incubation time, you would wake up that morning feeling rather sick. At that point, you don't take an automatic ability damage, you make your first saving throw. If you fail you take ability damage for that day, if you save you take no damage and have made your first of 2 consecutive saves.

Then just continue with the disease until cured by spell or saves.

Sovereign Court

Hmmmn. So are we counting three rolls, or does 1 today and 1 tomorrow = the two saves needed?


Roll 1, happens when the character gets bit and he makes a Fort save. If he saves, nothing happens and hes done. If he fails the disease starts its incubations period.

Roll 2, 1d3 days later, he gets sick, makes his first saving throw. If he makes this save, he takes no damage and waits till tomorrow, if he fails he takes ability damage and waits till tomorrow.

Roll 3, If he makes his second "consecutive" save, hes cured and done. Otherwise if he fails, he takes the ability damage and waits till tomorrow.

Roll 4-dead, or cured. he keeps rolling and taking ability damage until he is dead or makes his two consecutive saves.

This disease has no written end time, so it affects him until he dies from ability damage, or he has 2 consecutive saves, or he gets healed by spell or some heal check.


I would disagree.

You have failed your first saving throw, and the penalty to ability scores for the disease just takes that long to manifest. otherwise you get two saves before there are any effects.

How I interpret it: You fail your saving throw and 1d3 days later you wake up feeling like garbage. (-1d3 DEX & CON) You have some orange juice and chicken soup and when you wake up the next day you may feel better (successful save) or still terrible (failed save and further loss of DEX and CON). Day three happens and you either feel better (successful save, and if it is the second consecutive, you have kicked the bug) or you still feel terrible (failed save and you take more ability damage.)

Just my two cents.

Very Respectfully,
--Bacon


Sorry, but you are quite wrong Bacon. Dartslash is correct. The first saving throw is to avoid contracting the disease. If you fail it, then you make subsequent throws to try and prevent the damage.

Quote:

Afflictions

From curses to poisons to diseases, there are a number of afflictions that can affect a creature. While each of these afflictions has a different effect, they all function using the same basic system. All afflictions grant a saving throw when they are contracted. If successful, the creature does not suffer from the affliction and does not need to make any further rolls. If the saving throw is a failure, the creature falls victim to the affliction and must deal with its effects.

Afflictions require a creature to make a saving throw after a period of time to avoid taking certain penalties. With most afflictions, if a number of saving throws are made consecutively, the affliction is removed and no further saves are necessary. Some afflictions, usually supernatural ones, cannot be cured through saving throws alone and require the aid of powerful magic to remove. Each affliction is presented as a short block of information to help you better adjudicate its results.

Name: This is the name of the affliction.

Type: This is the type of the affliction, such as curse, disease, or poison. It might also include the means by which it is contracted, such as contact, ingestion, inhalation, injury, spell, or trap.

Save: This gives the type of save necessary to avoid contracting the affliction, as well as the DC of that save. Unless otherwise noted, this is also the save to avoid the affliction's effects once it is contracted, as well as the DC of any caster level checks needed to end the affliction through magic, such as remove curse or neutralize poison.

Onset: Some afflictions have a variable amount of time before they set in. Creatures that come in contact with an affliction with an onset time must make a saving throw immediately. Success means that the affliction is avoided and no further saving throws must be made. Failure means that the creature has contracted the affliction and must begin making additional saves after the onset period has elapsed. The affliction's effect does not occur until after the onset period has elapsed and then only if further saving throws are failed.

Frequency: This is how often the periodic saving throw must be attempted after the affliction has been contracted (after the onset time, if the affliction has any). While some afflictions last until they are cured, others end prematurely, even if the character is not cured through other means. If an affliction ends after a set amount of time, it will be noted in the frequency. For example, a disease with a frequency of “1/day” lasts until cured, but a poison with a frequency of “1/round for 6 rounds” ends after 6 rounds have passed.

Afflictions without a frequency occur only once, immediately upon contraction (or after the onset time if one is listed).

Effect: This is the effect that the character suffers each time if he fails his saving throw against the affliction. Most afflictions cause ability damage or hit point damage. These effects are cumulative, but they can be cured normally. Other afflictions cause the creature to take penalties or other effects. These effects are sometimes cumulative, with the rest only affecting the creature if it failed its most recent save. Some afflictions have different effects after the first save is failed. These afflictions have an initial effect, which occurs when the first save is failed, and a secondary effect, when additional saves are failed, as noted in the text. Hit point and ability score damage caused by an affliction cannot be healed naturally while the affliction persists.

Cure: This tells you how the affliction is cured. Commonly, this is a number of saving throws that must be made consecutively. Even if the affliction has a limited frequency, it might be cured prematurely if enough saving throws are made. Hit point damage and ability score damage is not removed when an affliction is cured. Such damage must be healed normally. Afflictions without a cure entry can only be cured through powerful spells, such as neutralize poison and remove curse. No matter how many saving throws are made, these afflictions continue to affect the target.

He failed a DC 15 Fortitude save to avoid contracting it, so after the onset period of 1d3 days has passed, he must make another DC 15 Fortitude save to avoid taking 1d6 points of Strength damage. From this point onward, he must make a DC 15 Fortitude save each day (according to the disease's frequency) to avoid further Strength damage. If, on two consecutive days, he makes his Fortitude saves, he is cured of the disease and any damage it caused begins to heal as normal.

This is all directly from the afflictions section of the PRD. Please note the example in the last paragraph. It's really there in the PRD, though it fails to mention what disease, the example is still thorough enough to demonstrate that the first save is to avoid contracting the disease. Further saves are to avoid taking the effects of the disease after the onset period.


Huh,

I stand corrected... I appreciate you correcting me.

Very Respectfully,
--Bacon

I may continue to implement it as I outlined for my campaigns, as a house rule, for the sake of of consistency. Since I've been doing it that way for the entire campaign thus far.

I must think on this.


Better_with_Bacon wrote:

Huh,

I stand corrected... I appreciate you correcting me.

Very Respectfully,
--Bacon

I may continue to implement it as I outlined for my campaigns, as a house rule, for the sake of of consistency. Since I've been doing it that way for the entire campaign thus far.

I must think on this.

It makes diseases a lot more dangerous at very low levels...which is mostly the only places you have to worry about it. Because remove disease is a 3rd level spell (5th character level).

Sovereign Court

So, in sum, its:
1. SAVE = Done
1a. Fail SAVE = wait onset time

Starting on the onset day, and each day afterword a failed save = damage. UNLESS 2 consecutive saves are made to cure AND each successful save day = no damage that day.

If this is correct... THANKS ALL!


Pax Veritas wrote:

So, in sum, its:

1. SAVE = Done
1a. Fail SAVE = wait onset time

Starting on the onset day, and each day afterword a failed save = damage. UNLESS 2 consecutive saves are made to cure AND each successful save day = no damage that day.

If this is correct... THANKS ALL!

Pretty much, except different diseases may have different save conditions. It may be 2 consecutive saves, it may be more. It may be that some magical diseases require magic to successfully end. You have to check the disease description.

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