@Orthos I don't think it's religious people per se but rather the after-church Sunday crowd. My theory is that because (a) it's a regular, weekly thing and (b) they just "gave at the office", so to speak, at church - these people may be less inclined to tip, or to tip on the low end of the scale if they do.
@Orthos I don't think it's religious people per se but rather the after-church Sunday crowd. My theory is that because (a) it's a regular, weekly thing and (b) they just "gave at the office", so to speak, at church - these people may be less inclined to tip, or to tip on the low end of the scale if they do.
My personal experience still stands, considering that's the vast majority of times I would go out to eat. Less so now, but that's more because my family has night-shift workers who need to go home and nap instead of going out to eat at that time of day on Sundays.
But I accept I might be in the minority in that experience, which saddens me but frankly I'm used to disappointment with my fellow man these days.
I don't see how tipping will fix it either. Feeding an animal rarely makes it hunt in other grounds. If everyone tipped the problem would be masked. To a more broad perspective, if there are no dissenters then nothing would be perceived as wrong. People often rail that you should vote with your wallet if you want to effect change in business. Yet, in this aspect, at least, when people do that, then that's suddenly badwrongfun. What inspires a business to change if they make good money and their waitstaff is happy yet people send in letters basically saying "that's not nice" or are otherwise silent?
@Orthos I don't think it's religious people per se but rather the after-church Sunday crowd. My theory is that because (a) it's a regular, weekly thing and (b) they just "gave at the office", so to speak, at church - these people may be less inclined to tip, or to tip on the low end of the scale if they do.
I can't speak for others, but in my teens when my church would have mass outings at restaurants, we usually got a reminder from our pastor to be nice to waitstaff and to tip because we wanted to intentionally combat that perception.
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@Buri "voting with your wallet" in this case would be not going to restaurants, rather than going and paying for the food but refusing to pay the gratuity. The only person that hurts is not the person in charge of the perceived injustice.
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I worked at a steakhouse each summer during college. The after-church Sunday crowd was by far the worst - I rarely made an average of minimum wage during those shifts. Most folks apparently felt that they'd "tipped" (offering plate/tithe) at church, proving they were good people, so they didn't have to pay me for my work in serving them. (I also wondered sometimes if they felt that, because I was working in a restaurant during the hours I "should" have been in church, I must be non-religious and therefore unworthy of their money?)
I did receive a "tip" from a table of 12 one Sunday, that turned out to be a folded cartoon ad for their church, with a photocopy of one end of a ten dollar bill (so when it was folded it appeared to be money). On the inside, it said something like, "You saw this on the ground and thought you'd found money, but that just shows you're GREEDY. And greed is evil. Come join our church."
Interesting factoid - the restaurant is "required" to make up the difference if your tips don't reach minimum wage, but only for the average of the entire pay period. So if the manager makes you stay an extra hour or two each shift to roll napkins/silverware at $2.13 an hour, and you work a Sunday lunch where you only get $3 in tips during a three hour shift, you're presumed to have made it up on other shifts and they don't have to reimburse you anything.
And I could pretty much guarantee that, at the places I worked, if someone did ever force the management to "make up" the loss for not getting enough tips, they'd turn around and fire that person ASAP for clearly not being a good enough waiter - after all, if they were doing a good job, they'd have gotten decent tips, right?
I worked at a steakhouse each summer during college. The after-church Sunday crowd was by far the worst - I rarely made an average of minimum wage during those shifts. Most folks apparently felt that they'd "tipped" (offering plate/tithe) at church, proving they were good people, so they didn't have to pay me for my work in serving them. (I also wondered sometimes if they felt that, because I was working in a restaurant during the hours I "should" have been in church, I must be non-religious and therefore unworthy of their money?)
I did receive a "tip" from a table of 12 one Sunday, that turned out to be a folded cartoon ad for their church, with a photocopy of one end of a ten dollar bill (so when it was folded it appeared to be money). On the inside, it said something like, "You saw this on the ground and thought you'd found money, but that just shows you're GREEDY. And greed is evil. Come join our church."
*SIGH* Things like this are why I don't have much faith in humanity anymore.
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I don't tip.
The price should be the price.
Those in service industries should be paid well so they give good service, and not have to scrape and near-beg for tips. It is a demeaning activity and should not be supported.
I have been in some poor countries and not tipped, because if I want to give them higher earnings, I order more or buy more from their business. So Americans will not get a tip from me because they made a tiny bit of effort. They are not special.
A strange cultural practice. Rejected.
I agree with you in theory, that the workers deserve a wage.
However, by not tipping in the US, you are severely punishing the victim. You need to rethink this practice. Most US waitstaff earn tips exclusively, and get an hourly pittance that barely covers the taxes on their earnings.
Yes, the system should change. Please don't crush innocent people in an attempt to bring about that change.
This is one of those things you just need to be aware of when you travel. Many countries have such practices that need to be respected by proper cosmopolitan individuals.
@Orthos I don't think it's religious people per se but rather the after-church Sunday crowd. My theory is that because (a) it's a regular, weekly thing and (b) they just "gave at the office", so to speak, at church - these people may be less inclined to tip, or to tip on the low end of the scale if they do.My personal experience still stands, considering that's the vast majority of times I would go out to eat. Less so now, but that's more because my family has night-shift workers who need to go home and nap instead of going out to eat at that time of day on Sundays.
But I accept I might be in the minority in that experience, which saddens me but frankly I'm used to disappointment with my fellow man these days.
My experience backs what Sarcasmancer says. In fact, I hated working Sundays once the churches let out; for some reason, that was the time people were most likely to yell over prices, demand discounts, and generally act like spoiled brats. And even if they don't act that way, they're not likely to tip.
It gets worse when you're doing tax prep.
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I tip about 20% since it's easier math, and I'm overtly Religious. I pray for my food at the table aloud with my friends. We have friends who will literally ask a waiter or waitress how much they think they deserve and will tip any amount they say, although this is usually less than he would have tipped them.
I had a large group of friends who would eat out at the same place every week and one waitress came in sick. They asked her why she was there when she didn't look well, and she told them she needed to be there because their tips helped her buy a new car.
This was while they went from low to high income.
The thing that causes them to tip higher than usual is their principles and morals. They value people and we treat our servers as people, not workers.
Tipping is about power. Take the historical norm, the customer who is in charge of paying the bill was usually a man. The server is typically from a lower class and often female. The tip is a way of exercising power and control over the server. This also serves to explain some of the discrepancies of tips between classes that have been described in this thread.
The wealthier tip less because they don't need to wave their money around to get what they want. People already know they're wealthy. Often the wealthy are less concerned with money, money's never a problem when you always have it, so they empathize less with the working class server.
Poorer people tip more because it creates an aura of wealth. If you're generous with your money, you imagine that people will think you have more of it. They're also more likely to empathize with the working class server, since they're also members of the working class.
Then of course you have the gender role in this, men tipping women for service, with the implicit relationship of the woman needing to please the man or she won't receive her wages. Obviously this isn't always the case, but there has been some research on the perception of tipping and the people who are most likely to be in favor of keeping the system are men, almost exclusively.
It's also an inefficient system. In effect, the restaurant industry has passed off the labor costs to the consumer directly. The problem is that the restaurant is still liable for their employee's wages, so it creates a legal morass of rules and regulations, of which the customer can't be held accountable. The system results in lawsuits fairly regularly.
Applebee's lawsuit
Applebee's lawsuit 2
Applebee's lawsuit 3
Applebee's lawsuit 4
Applebee's lawsuit 5
Website about how to join a class action suit against Applebee's
The people who benefit most from this system are lawyers, who otherwise would have nothing to do with this.
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Keep in mind when I say overtly religious I don't mean religious I mean people who make sure that you know they are religious. If a customer asks if I have found Jesus before I get their drink order, I'm probably not getting a good tip.
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Well, for you 0% tippers in the US, I hope you never go back to the same restaurant twice.
Or maybe I hope you do.
Either way, good luck with that. "You reap what you sow." (c.f. THE BIBLE)
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MEL brings up an interesting point (May I call you MEL, Mr. Lincoln?).
As I mentioned, we habitually overtip mainly because 20% is dirt simple, and rounding off is easy. $162.38 dinner bill? That's a little over $32. Heck, I'll just leave $35 'cause it's easy. Well, he was really nice and told me a funny story, so let's just call it $40 even. Leaving an extra $10 to $20 doesn't mean a whole lot when you live in an area where a 1-bedroom 900-square-foot house can command $3000/month rental or $650,000 to buy. "Menial labor" like gardening, baby-sitters, or house cleaning costs $30/hour and up around here!
On the other hand, we find that we are EXTREMELY popular when we return to the same establishments. Even at the high-end restaurants that we can only afford to go to once every 3-4 months they recognize us and give us preferred seating, and we get wait staff requesting our table and then hanging out with us to shoot the breeze. It's lots of fun. (Yeah, I have to admit, when the first waitress told us that she'd seen our name on the reservation list and requested that we get put at the best window table in the house and that she be our waitress, I was touched. I'm a sucker that way.)
Yes, many on this thread will deride us for "paying for friendship". But I love the fact that we can go out to dinner at a local restaurant maybe once every month or two, have all the staff recognize us and welcome us, and feel like we're really very welcome in the establishment.
So tipping is definitely a two-way street: Make a political statement by refusing to tip and the quality of service you receive will degrade if you frequent the same restaurants. And the only statement you can make is to stop going, since you're not exactly going to tip them less, and frankly most of the wait staff would rather see non-tippers leave anyway.
Tip generously and over time you find that the owner, the chef, and the other staff will come out and tell you all about their lives, turning your dining experience into a social one. Of course, we're a group that likes company. We buy drinks for the wait staff at bars, let the sommelier sample our wine, and generally figure that if we're dining out, we're going to spend the money to make everyone happy with the experience, ourselves and the staff included. It does mean that we can't do it nearly as often as we'd like, since we routinely add $50-$100 to our bill by treating the staff well, but when we do go out, we have a blast.
And isn't enjoying oneself what dining out is all about?
P.S. And to the O.P., we get this sort of treatment at 20-25%, so that's definitely high enough to attract the wait staff's attention, so I'd call it "higher than normal".
EDIT: And for those wondering, we were dining out 2-3 nights a week, with one of my friends and I splitting the expenses, and we realized that we couldn't afford to keep up that rate of expenditure. Rather than being less generous on nights we were out, we cut back on our nights out. Better to have equal fun fewer nights than less fun more nights in our estimation.
Here in New York, 20% tip is customary for standard service in a restaurant, more if the service is good. 15% means you feel the service was somehow substandard, 10% if the waiter was actively rude to you. You don't ever fail to leave a tip-- if the service was that bad, you walk out before the food is served.
I usually leave 20% of the total bill, including taxes, and I round up to the nearest dollar.
There's a diner my wife, kid, and I go to for breakfast every Sunday before church. We've been going just about weekly for 15 years. We know just about everyone in the restaurant: the owner, the manager, the waitstaff, and the cook, plus all of the other regular customers. We love dining out surrounded by people that feel like family. The Sunday before Christmas, we usually add a $50 tip, because we like the place so much and they like us.
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Im from a non-tipping country, and I almost stopped tipping when im abroad after I found out that many employers take the tipping proceeds (at least in the places I visited) with the reasoning that tips are a voluntary part of the service which the employer spent time and effort to teach the staff. In other words: "I taught you to smile and be nice, so all your tips belong to me!"
I still tip when appropriate, but I do it with a half heart worried that its going into the wrong wallet.
Just to let you know, an employer taking a tipped employee's tips and keeping them for themselves is illegal in the states. It doesn't stop it from happening, but it's rarer than it may seem, because it will get the employer in a lot of hot water.
---Edit---Everything below this line added after the fact---
For those arguing against tipping as some sort of moral or social statement, something you may not have considered:
Servers' income tax is based off of their wages (often $2.13/hour) + tips. In order to account for what was tipped, most modern restaurants now just assume that you were tipped no less than 8% of sales. If you didn't make 8% of sales off of a table, then you can theoretically get that sale taken off of your expected income, but most management considers any table that leaves without tipping to be an error on the server's part (i.e., the fact that they didn't tip must mean that you are a bad server), and may use such information to fire you.
So if you go into a restaurant and spend $100 and don't tip, you just *cost* the employee money for the pleasure of serving you. If you really want to get anal, you could argue that you cost them money twice (loss from having to report wages they didn't get because you didn't tip, plus loss of the money they would have made had any other schmo come and sat at their table).
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As for the OP:
I've never met a person who didn't know to tip. That's an argument from personal ignorance, but it's what I've got. I have known plenty of people, however, who were unaware of the fact that servers don't get paid even minimum wage. So they knew that tipping was customary, but not why it was customary or why it is important.
Oh my goodness, yes. Not all cultures view tipping the same - to some it's a dire insult.
Fascinating experiences here. Me, I throw in a few bucks as tip. I'm a staunch foe of math, so I don't do percentages, but it's usually about five bucks or so.
Here in New York, 20% tip is customary for standard service in a restaurant, more if the service is good. 15% means you feel the service was somehow substandard, 10% if the waiter was actively rude to you. You don't ever fail to leave a tip-- if the service was that bad, you walk out before the food is served.
I usually leave 20% of the total bill, including taxes, and I round up to the nearest dollar.
There's a diner my wife, kid, and I go to for breakfast every Sunday before church. We've been going just about weekly for 15 years. We know just about everyone in the restaurant: the owner, the manager, the waitstaff, and the cook, plus all of the other regular customers. We love dining out surrounded by people that feel like family. The Sunday before Christmas, we usually add a $50 tip, because we like the place so much and they like us.
Good on you, fellow nyer.
Just to let you know, an employer taking a tipped employee's tips and keeping them for themselves is illegal in the states. It doesn't stop it from happening, but it's rarer than it may seem, because it will get the employer in a lot of hot water.Im from a non-tipping country, and I almost stopped tipping when im abroad after I found out that many employers take the tipping proceeds (at least in the places I visited) with the reasoning that tips are a voluntary part of the service which the employer spent time and effort to teach the staff. In other words: "I taught you to smile and be nice, so all your tips belong to me!"
I still tip when appropriate, but I do it with a half heart worried that its going into the wrong wallet.
Another reason why I keep my tip to a few bucks - something the server will appreciate and someone attempting to steal a tip might not notice.
I'd like to say I'm pretty generous in what I define as poor service but I will look at at least giving that 10% going forward.
Here's another one I remember. Tipping the cook at a restaurant for a well prepared meal. I've been present when someone gave the waitstaff and said half was for the cook. Not something I've seen often, but curious as how common that practice is?
There are some cultures where the tip is assumed to be for the cook, not the waitstaff, or so I've heard. Still go down to 34
I'm a staunch foe of math, so I don't do percentages, but it's usually about five bucks or so.
While not as active a mathhater as FH, I can't do percentages in my head (even the easy ones); hence again why I'm glad I have a little tip calculator app on my phone.
If you can't figure out the math you don't need to be handling money.
I always tip, unless the service was really, really poor. And even then I might feel guilty and tip anyway.
Around here in Chile, tips are a standard 10% for most services (law requires the tip to be indicated in the bill, but it is not mandatory to pay it), except in places like gas stations, where the standard is somewhere between 1 and 3%. I usually leave 20% on those places were I go frequently enough that the waiters know my name, or when the service has been particularly excellent.
While I've seen the occasional non-tipper, it is a very rare occurence. Understandably, it's often tourists the ones whom I've seen leaving no tip.
Another reason why I keep my tip to a few bucks - something the server will appreciate and someone attempting to steal a tip might not notice.Just to let you know, an employer taking a tipped employee's tips and keeping them for themselves is illegal in the states. It doesn't stop it from happening, but it's rarer than it may seem, because it will get the employer in a lot of hot water.Im from a non-tipping country, and I almost stopped tipping when im abroad after I found out that many employers take the tipping proceeds (at least in the places I visited) with the reasoning that tips are a voluntary part of the service which the employer spent time and effort to teach the staff. In other words: "I taught you to smile and be nice, so all your tips belong to me!"
I still tip when appropriate, but I do it with a half heart worried that its going into the wrong wallet.
You steal from the server so the employer doesn't have to?
except in places like gas stations, where the standard is somewhere between 1 and 3%.
As someone who has only lived in self-serve gas areas, and never seen nor used a gas station where an attendant waits on you, what's the usual expected?
You steal from the server so the employer doesn't have to?Another reason why I keep my tip to a few bucks - something the server will appreciate and someone attempting to steal a tip might not notice.Just to let you know, an employer taking a tipped employee's tips and keeping them for themselves is illegal in the states. It doesn't stop it from happening, but it's rarer than it may seem, because it will get the employer in a lot of hot water.Im from a non-tipping country, and I almost stopped tipping when im abroad after I found out that many employers take the tipping proceeds (at least in the places I visited) with the reasoning that tips are a voluntary part of the service which the employer spent time and effort to teach the staff. In other words: "I taught you to smile and be nice, so all your tips belong to me!"
I still tip when appropriate, but I do it with a half heart worried that its going into the wrong wallet.
note that I said the server would appreciate it. Pocket change is insulting, a dollar means I'm non descript, a few bucks is appreciated, more may make them think I'm wealthier than I am and make them a target from fellow servers as well as unscrupulous bosses. It's a fine line between appreciation and coveting for some, so I lean towards the former.
See here I had suspected there would be more people who were simply unaware of etiquette, but apparently of all the responses I'm getting from people who don't tip, they're all doing it for some ideological reason (either to punish the server for poor service or to punish the restaurant for exploiting the server, or whatever) rather than out of simple ignorance.
Not what I expected but very interesting nonetheless.
@Orthos my understanding is that in some states it is illegal to pump your own gas.
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One thing I will say, regarding knowledge or ignorance of the custom of tipping here in the States, is that I don't always know who to tip.
I know food servers get tipped. That one's easy, and I don't believe that people are ignorant of that idea.
But who else do I tip? I have heard that you are supposed to tip your mail carrier. Do I tip the concierge if all they do is tell me where the closest steakhouse is? Do I tip the concierge *at all*? Barbers I get, I was ignorant of that one until I was an adult, but only because I never paid for a haircut until I was an adult. Do you tip the trolley boy/bagger at the supermarket?
It's all bewildering.
@Orthos my understanding is that in some states it is illegal to pump your own gas.
Welcome to Oregon!
@Orthos my understanding is that in some states it is illegal to pump your own gas.
I am aware of this. However the three states I have lived in - TX, AZ, and TN - are all not included in that. Hence me knowing nothing about the expected/appropriate tip for the service. Hence me asking.
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One thing I will say, regarding knowledge or ignorance of the custom of tipping here in the States, is that I don't always know who to tip.
I know food servers get tipped. That one's easy, and I don't believe that people are ignorant of that idea.
But who else do I tip? I have heard that you are supposed to tip your mail carrier. Do I tip the concierge if all they do is tell me where the closest steakhouse is? Do I tip the concierge *at all*? Barbers I get, I was ignorant of that one until I was an adult, but only because I never paid for a haircut until I was an adult. Do you tip the trolley boy/bagger at the supermarket?
It's all bewildering.
And THAT'S the reason I hate hate HATE tipping!
When I travel, I Google "standard tipping". It says "tip the bellhop $1 per bag for taking your bags up to your room." I have the bellhop carry 7 bags (family of 4, including kids) and tip him $10. Some bellhop's eyes go wide in astonishment at my generosity. Some look at me condescendingly as if to say, "Really? Ten measly bucks?" ALL AT THE SAME ESTABLISHMENT!
Tipping is beyond my comprehension. I avoid using valet parking, bellhops, barbers, or concierges because I don't know what they want from me. I dine out because the rules are clearly defined.
Go figure.
EDIT: And I was born and raised in the San Francisco Bay Area, so a "native", and I still don't know how to tip anyone other than restaurant workers. Taxis? Bellhops? Concierges? Valets? A complete mystery to me...
except in places like gas stations, where the standard is somewhere between 1 and 3%.As someone who has only lived in self-serve gas areas, and never seen nor used a gas station where an attendant waits on you, what's the usual expected?
1% is the usual expected if the person only pours gas; 3% is the standard when the guy also performs an additional service (like washing your windows). It's also customary to hand over a bigger tip if you strike a conversation with the guy (I personally always do, so it's always the full tip for me).
Self-service is usually an option in most stations (and generally including some sort of discount to encourage people to use them), but at least one pump must always be serviced by someone.
Note: Keep in mind I don't live in the US, though, so I'm not sure if the same general principles apply to gas stations over there.
@ ShiningFool, NobodysHome - this is exactly what I would have expected. Unless you're Paris Hilton or something, you don't very often interact with concierges and bellhops. So it's natural you would be unaccustomed to the tipping etiquette. So my guess would have been that if you spent your childhood not eating out in restaurants or whatever, you might be ignorant of tipping (or maybe not, you might see it on TV or something). But evidently this is not the case.
@ Orthos me either, I'm glad I didn't because it would be an embarrassing situation to have somebody confront me about my illegal activities and also depriving them of a tip!
EDIT: That still doesn't make much sense to me. So if you're getting 10.00 in gas you would tip ten cents??? If you give em a whole quarter do they bite the coin to make sure it's real? "Thanks, mister!"
wat.
Yeah, never been a waiter but this ticks me off hugely. You tip or you eat at McDonalds (or better yet, at home).
It's like saying you don't think people should be allowed to charge for food so you just steal. You know how the system is set up, you're stealing people's work.
So you don't tip at McDonalds? How about Burger King or Wendys?
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You DO tip at McDonalds?