Ruling on Mythic Adventures


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3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

My question is under legendary item page 175
Undetectable:
This grants its bonded user the ability to become utterly undetectable while invisible and in physical contact with the item the bonded creature cant be detected or scryed by any method.

Does this include True Seeing?

My rouge player believes that true seeing will not work if he has this


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There's an FAQ request about this floating around somewhere.

There are three schools of thought:

1) The character is undetectable by any means (including Perception skill checks, blind sight, tremorsense and true seeing).

2) The character is undetectable by magic, but senses work normally.

3) The character is immune to "detect" spells and any effects based on the scry spell.

Pick your preference. I waver between 1 and 2.


I would say 1.

Cause mythics.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Yeah I'd go with 1. Utterly undetectable means I can shout in your ear and you don't know I'm there. If you run into me you don't notice it. If I stab you you know you're hurt but have no idea how it happened.

A level 3 spell (nondetection) already gives the target SR against things such as true seeing - it's not so much of a stretch to say a mythic ability gives more.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So.... deities using divine power cannot locate the creature, nor can 10th Tier Mythic characters with mythic spellcasting, +100 to perception checks, blindsight and true seeing. Does this mean they are immune to death?

Sounds like this ability is in need of clarification and errata.

Designer

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Chemlak wrote:

There's an FAQ request about this floating around somewhere.

There are three schools of thought:

1) The character is undetectable by any means (including Perception skill checks, blind sight, tremorsense and true seeing).

2) The character is undetectable by magic, but senses work normally.

3) The character is immune to "detect" spells and any effects based on the scry spell.

Pick your preference. I waver between 1 and 2.

Yes, it is 1. Because mythic.


AFAIK, invisibility spells will still have an aura of illusion magic, that should reveal the square(s) you are in.
You are undetectable but the aura of the spell should still show up.
(of course, you can also cast other illusion spells to confuse the issue, i.e. create false positives)
That is still full concealment and prevents creature targetting aside from attack rolls w/ miss chance.
Only non-magical or supernatural invisibility would bypass that.


It's not such an un-precedented ability, considering that Dust of Disappearance also negates being detected by any magical means, for the low low price of 3,500 gp. Unpredicatable duration, but a Familiar re-applying it every 2-3 rounds fixes that nicely.


either way, you can say good night to all those pesky critters with blindsense/blindsight/tremor sense/true seeing your GM was planning on throwing at your mythic characters....this is a free weapon at first mythic tier with arguably the best utility you can put on a weapon. GM's are gonna have to start getting as creative as their players if they want to make encounters challenging anymore....


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Chemlak wrote:

There's an FAQ request about this floating around somewhere.

There are three schools of thought:

1) The character is undetectable by any means (including Perception skill checks, blind sight, tremorsense and true seeing).

2) The character is undetectable by magic, but senses work normally.

3) The character is immune to "detect" spells and any effects based on the scry spell.

Pick your preference. I waver between 1 and 2.

Yes, it is 1. Because mythic.

Looks like I'd better find a way to reliably become invisible rather than relying on the party wizard... Wooohooooooo!!!


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Really sorry to sound negative... But this is plain stupid.

I'm a little surprised at this.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

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Globetrotter wrote:

Really sorry to sound negative... But this is plain stupid.

I'm a little surprised at this.

Well, that was a helpful post...


Chemlak wrote:
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Chemlak wrote:

There's an FAQ request about this floating around somewhere.

There are three schools of thought:

1) The character is undetectable by any means (including Perception skill checks, blind sight, tremorsense and true seeing).

2) The character is undetectable by magic, but senses work normally.

3) The character is immune to "detect" spells and any effects based on the scry spell.

Pick your preference. I waver between 1 and 2.

Yes, it is 1. Because mythic.
Looks like I'd better find a way to reliably become invisible rather than relying on the party wizard... Wooohooooooo!!!

Ninja's Greater Invisibility just got sexier.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:

Really sorry to sound negative... But this is plain stupid.

I'm a little surprised at this.

Well, that was a helpful post...

Sean! Hey, squire. How's Indiana? I notice you still have Designer against your name here for now.

What Globetrotter is saying is "this ability is ridiculously overpowered, surely there is some way to get around it?" (Note, I do not agree.) There's another thread around here about getting around this power.


It seems to me like it applies to perception checks, special senses (Blind Sight, Scent, etc.), and any other method one could use to find a person, such as spells, extraordinary and supernatural abilities.

It doesn't seem to stop you from leaving footprints, displacing water or getting hit with a bag of flour.

Edit: Or Invis Purge.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Chemlak wrote:

There's an FAQ request about this floating around somewhere.

There are three schools of thought:

1) The character is undetectable by any means (including Perception skill checks, blind sight, tremorsense and true seeing).

2) The character is undetectable by magic, but senses work normally.

3) The character is immune to "detect" spells and any effects based on the scry spell.

Pick your preference. I waver between 1 and 2.

Yes, it is 1. Because mythic.

The downside of this is that your friends can't find you either.


Why does every power have to have "a way to get around it?"

Why isn't it OK for a Mythic person who wants to hide to just be impossible to find?

The way around it seems to be "well, they can't hide all the time" and I'm ok with that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Chemlak wrote:

There's an FAQ request about this floating around somewhere.

There are three schools of thought:

1) The character is undetectable by any means (including Perception skill checks, blind sight, tremorsense and true seeing).

2) The character is undetectable by magic, but senses work normally.

3) The character is immune to "detect" spells and any effects based on the scry spell.

Pick your preference. I waver between 1 and 2.

Yes, it is 1. Because mythic.
The downside of this is that your friends can't find you either.

Yep. Lots of people don't think about the downsides (which are still outweighed by the upsides, IMO), like being unable to take part in tactical discussions.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:

Really sorry to sound negative... But this is plain stupid.

I'm a little surprised at this.

Well, that was a helpful post...

No, not helpful at all.

There are two other threads with comments about this. I suppose I was venting in an unproductive way.

I'm really trying to wrap my head around the construction of this. I have two players that use this to devastating effect. One is a wizard, the other a multi-classed rogue/alchemist. The latter has vanishing move, giving him greater invisibility for 6 rounds for a mythic point (3rd tier WotR AP). By RAW, he cannot be targeted without considerable effort. The Mage is impossible to locate and therefore invulnerable.

The players are commenting it is too much. If I gave this to a monster, it would be a TPK.

Clarification would help a lot on this. What is impossible to find and the extents of that? One of the designers chimed in (see above ) clarifying it is basically a win button. Why would you put that into the game allowing such a powerful ability without a way to cancel it?

Staying quite on this only brings out the worst in people and I do apologize for the negativity. This power is not balanced unless we or I can get clarification on a proper counter.

Can we get this clarified please?


Chemlak wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Chemlak wrote:

There's an FAQ request about this floating around somewhere.

There are three schools of thought:

1) The character is undetectable by any means (including Perception skill checks, blind sight, tremorsense and true seeing).

2) The character is undetectable by magic, but senses work normally.

3) The character is immune to "detect" spells and any effects based on the scry spell.

Pick your preference. I waver between 1 and 2.

Yes, it is 1. Because mythic.
The downside of this is that your friends can't find you either.
Yep. Lots of people don't think about the downsides (which are still outweighed by the upsides, IMO), like being unable to take part in tactical discussions.

Another downside is people don't thing about what if the GM used this against the players.

Everyone would either call foul or the battle would get boring.

You get hit again... Can I find him to fight back?
Nope. He cannot be detected. You're going to get hit again until you die.
Sorry.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

faerie fire
glitterdust
invisibility purge
stunstone


Well, I thought that too., but there is an argument.

Clarification would be nice.


It would be nice if see if spells like true seeing would still work, or see invisibility

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Globetrotter wrote:
It would be nice if see if spells like true seeing would still work, or see invisibility

Obviously you'd need mythic magic to counter this. Mythic True Seeing, Mythic Limited Wish, etc. or an item on the artifact level, like say... perhaps a Legendary Item?


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Well, that's unfortunate.

So, like I said. It's a auto win.

Not every opponent is going to be mythic and have mythic spell casting.
It's too difficult to overcome. This really needs to be reworked.

Am I the only one that thinks this?


Mythic is full of "the mythic character always beats a non-mythic character with this" options. That's clearly an intentional design choice.

If the ability's a problem for a game, solution is "don't put it in your game", I guess. That said, rules-as-written, mind blank + invisibility presumably does this too -- the devs have ruled that mind blank beats see invisibility, and that it beats absolutely all divination magic of lower levels or even the same level, so presumably it beats true seeing. (Our GM doesn't actually allow mind blank to beat true seeing/see invisible for purposes of seeing a character, but mind blank is a spell that's supposed to be mostly about scrying/divination/mind-reading, so I don't have a problem with that.)


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Yes, indeed.

This seems like a reverse incentive to use. Players will start getting bored, as mine are, with something like this.

Invisibility + mind blank is a high level combination, creatures of that power level will have added methods to deal... at least you would think.

ANY player can get this non-detection ability at low level making it not only a game changer but a head scratcher.

Paizo is constantly reviewing rules to make the game more balance... anyone remember the crane wing nerf or the limit on free actions? But then they throw out another thing that breaks the game even further.

People will have a lot to say, and when someone says this is silly or stupid, the only answer we get is "that is not helpful".

Well.. it's not helpful to place things like this in the game and then sit on their hands. We have to spend time testing and reworking the system to get it to work properly. I really do not like house ruling or testing a system I am suppose to have faith that it works as it.

It doesn't.

So... I supposed I should start a thread in the advice section or the houserule section to deal with another dropped ball. The people that are saying it is great or that it is fine either are playing a different method than I or they are just talking. If they are not having trouble with it then I would love to hear how they are dealing with it at the table. And if they have play tested this on the other side of the screen and see how their players reacted.

I am truly not trying to rant, but I am. No ill intention is meant with this post, but some constructive ways to deal with it and make my players happy is what I am looking for.

Thanks :)


I must be missing something here.

How, exactly, can "any" player get this?

This is a power that exists only on legendary items. The only way those show up is either that the GM introduces them by choice, or the GM starts using Mythic rules, and a character picks the legendary item mythic trait, and then picks this ability. Which means that they didn't pick any of the other mythic abilities at that tier.

And, in general, the assumption is that non-mythics won't go up against mythics except in very rare circumstances.

Note #1: You don't have to detect someone to fight them. Pathfinder's got perfectly good rules for what to do if you want to attack someone you can't detect.

Note #2: Attacking will still break invisibility, unless you're using greater invisibility.

By the time you're up against people who have access to true seeing, you're only a couple of levels shy of being able to cast mind blank from a scroll if you want...

This really sounds like you had a specific experience in-game that went really badly and you're angry about it, and if you'd tell us the full story, perhaps people could comment on this more usefully. As-is, yes, it's extremely powerful in one very very very narrow way. I don't think it's a problem. Yeah, the power's good, but I doubt I'd take that compared to all the much more useful things open to me. (Might have a wizard going mythic "soon" in a game. There's no way I'd take a legendary item over Perfect Preparation.)


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seebs wrote:

Note #1: You don't have to detect someone to fight them. Pathfinder's got perfectly good rules for what to do if you want to attack someone you can't detect.

Note #2: Attacking will still break invisibility, unless you're using greater invisibility.

By the time you're up against people who have access to true seeing, you're only a couple of levels shy of being able to cast mind blank from a scroll if you want...

Couple of things I wanted to comment on:

1. True you don't have to be able to detect someone to fight them, especially if they are melee characters or maybe even archers. But what if they aren't? Invisibility Purge, Glitter Dust, other area spell counter measures... how are you finding the area to drop those again? For all you know you are being bombarded from somewhere within a mile radius and you have no way of knowing where. NOTHING overcomes this.

2. Who cares about True Seeing, what about all of the monster abilities that effectively negate Invisibility way before that? Scent, blindsight/sense, tremorsense, etc. Those are out and come online way before Mind Blank is an option.

Overall I know Mythic has some very strong abilities and is meant to, but this still seems a bit much even by those standards (consider Supreme Stealth which you would need to take multiple times to match this and that's a Path ability and it would still be inferior). If I played Mythic this would be high on my priority list if I had anyway of getting Greater Invisibility at all.


I think you may be reading more into "detect" than is intended. If you get hit, you know at least approximately what kind of thing hit you. For instance, if you suddenly sustain a wound, and there's not an arrow, you have pretty good reason to believe there's something roughly in melee range. Heck, just start attacking empty squares.


Yes, maybe I had a situation that went haywire. Tomorrow, I will give greater details ( it's late).

I'm not angry at all, although I can see how my posts look that way. I tend to write aggressive. The rant came more from the boards than the rules.

I think I will lay out the situations and explain in detail and you guys can highlight he errors.

In short, to answer a littl above, I mean ANY because we are running through the mythic adventure path and it's implied to use the mythic rules. Anyone can take the legendary weapons ability at first tier. In my case, 3 of 4 did.

There is another mythic ability called vanishing move that gives you greater invisibility for twice as many rounds as you have tiers. You can do this a lot of times per day. My currency player can do this maybe 8 times a day for 6 rounds a pop.

According to the developer (can't remember the name and I'm writing this on a phone, so can't scroll), once you are invisible you cannot be detected by any means. No detection magic (see invisibility , true seeing) or any abilities like tremor sense, blind sight , etc.

With this power, the enemy must feel around the battle field in hopes to find the player. It's nearly possible. The wizard can caste spells and never be found.

If I put this on an enemy with spring attack I could kill nearly anyone without reprieve.

I added the section about true seeing because many demons have this ability that would normally counter the invisibility issue. In this case, no.

What I would like to know is how to play the game with this power intact. I could remove it from the game, but I want to try to explore every opportunity before removing options. I also do not feel having the enemies always prepped to caste glitterdust just so we can have a challenging encounter. There should be a few options to bypass this.

There is some confusion on what that is. I am hoping that others can see what I'm saying, of just get me on course so I can continue to run challenging encounters. There are other threads on this, I've posted in them all, and there has yet to be any way around it that didn't conflict with what someone else says. Some say see invincible will work because it remove the invisibility. I like that, it's clean and easy. Other say that won't work, including the developer.

What is the way you can counteract a person that is impossible to locate so you can survive? On the enemies side, it's a TPK. On the players side , it becomes boring. I know it's mythic and mythic is crazy powerful. Mythic power attack is crazy and even moreso on a crit. But this is reasonable and still fun. The undetectable ability is fun in concept but less in use.

You said I'm clinging or focusing wrong on the "detect" part. Please then explain it to me so I can understand. I'm truly dumb founded.


Imagine that you are in a room with four inches of water.

This power prevents you from being detected. It doesn't prevent someone from noticing the foot-shaped holes in the water.

Detection doesn't mean "any kind of experience leading to awareness, no matter what". Detect magic is detection. Divination spells are detection. Unusual powers like blindsense or tremorsense are detection. But that doesn't entirely solve the problem. There's still utterly ordinary stuff that you can't meaningfully suppress.

Options:
1. AoEs.
2. Area dispel, like dispel magic.
3. Swarms.
4. Lots of relatively weak creatures attacking possibly-empty spaces.
5. Invisibility purge. That's not detecting you, it's just making you stop being invisible, at which point the power which is effective only when you are invisible is irrelevant.
6. Poisoned food.
7. Purely mechanical things like net traps.

I'd say invisibility purge is the obvious first step, though. Lowish-level, directly effective against all sorts of things.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Invisibility purge, fear effects (if it's a held item, dropping it will cause the character to lose Undetectable), and indirect detection methods would seem to be the way to go.

The way I see it, Undetectable means you have total concealment to everything, regardless of the senses or magic being used. It's good, but not impossible to counter. Just really hard to counter effectively.


Ok, now we are making forward progress.

Yes, environmental effects can help offset this ability.

AoE work as well, but not for one player (evasion), but I am not going to touch that. I like him having that.

Swarms... never really played with swarms. I am going to review them and see how they can be effective for me.

Lots of weak creatures... yes, this is a great suggestion, but I am not going to use it :)

Invisibility purge. Ok, this is a pretty great option that others have also suggested. It is cleric/oracle or inquisitor, but a lot of decent amount of baddies have levels in this or can gain access to it. It will not be a common spell for enemies to have, but again, why not? Invisibility is such a commonly used tactic that I can see divine casters memorizing it while wizard use see invisibility, which in this case does not work.

Poisoned food... ok, this is odd and I am not sure how to use it, but I will think more on it. This does makes me think more about AoE spells, that use poison or acid.

Mundane sources... ok, flour, paint, soot, net traps are great.

Chemlak, you are right on. It is not impossibly to counter, but really hard. I think I am going to have to get deeper into the minds of my NPC's. I mean, if players faced this scenario, they would retreat, or do something to eliminate the threat. Then always have this way to counter the ability available. Not every NPC is going to do this, but the ones watching the PC's will.

I think I am just going to have to up my game and find a way to combat this. Your suggestion have helped. I am on the fence whether or not to keep our house rule that "cannot be detected by any means" part is magical in nature and doesn't trump things like tremor sense or blind sight. There are entire mythic path abilities that you have to take to just eliminate one of those, whereas this one ability allows you to negate them all. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I still believe this ability, mythic or not, is either poorly worded or poorly realized.


The point about poisoned food is that if you have characters who are too dangerous in combat, don't fight them...


lol, no, I got that.

I have to weight the "dick GM move" vs countering the PC's. I mean, the easiest thing to do is take away the legendary item. I mean through a disarm or a frightened effect, but that really tends to put players in a bad mood.

I took away the weapon of the PC last session to foreshadow that this could happen in the future and it went over ok, but panic was in the eyes. Now they are looking for way to counter it. He already has the ability to recall the weapon anywhere on this plane, and he will augment that once powerful enough.

I don't want to be the guy that just destroyed the weapon or poisoned the PC's, but NPC's will do all the dastardly things PC's can do. However, no one cries foul on PC's actions.

Poison is a create idea at low levels, but my players are on the verge of hitting 10th level. Poisons, disease, all of these things are easily bypassed.

I think I just have to play smarter. Unfortunately, I have little time and the time I have is spent making sure the world is functional and the story is cohesive. I rarely have time to study the monsters to the level I should. My problem, I know.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Also, pay close attention to events that end invisibility. If you allow the players to run around invisible all of the time, this ability gets vastly more powerful. Keep a close eye on their spell and item use. Enforce durations. Undetectable is just (just? Heh.) invisibility writ large. Don't be afraid to throw more encounters at the party.

Liberty's Edge

Globetrotter wrote:

Another downside is people don't thing about what if the GM used this against the players.

Everyone would either call foul or the battle would get boring.

You get hit again... Can I find him to fight back?
Nope. He cannot be detected. You're going to get hit again until you die.
Sorry.

Or you teleport away. Or you use AOE. Or you happen to get enough lucky blows to kill him.


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Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Chemlak wrote:

There's an FAQ request about this floating around somewhere.

There are three schools of thought:

1) The character is undetectable by any means (including Perception skill checks, blind sight, tremorsense and true seeing).

2) The character is undetectable by magic, but senses work normally.

3) The character is immune to "detect" spells and any effects based on the scry spell.

Pick your preference. I waver between 1 and 2.

Yes, it is 1. Because mythic.

I really wish that it wasn't option 1, because this lead my GM to just ban the ability before the party's ninja could abuse it.

'It has to be awsome because it is mythic' is nice, but the players still need to be challenged in some way.


Matrix Dragon, I agree 100%. We are choosing to use option 2 because option 1 just makes it too much to deal with effectively.

Chemlak, I watch the durations closely. We have an app that tracks initiative with the added benefit of tracking spells with round durations. It's handy. The problem is the players with vanishing move can just kick up another 6 rounds of improved as a swift action...

Vanishing Move (Su)

When you wish to not be seen, you aren't. As a swift action, you can make yourself invisible until the end of your turn. This effect ends if you do anything other than move. If you expend one use of mythic power when using this ability, it instead acts as greater invisibility using double your tier as your caster level.

Now wait a minute... hold the bus. I never read the highlighted line. That changes this a bit. He has been moving all over the damn place.

Players...


Globetrotter wrote:


Vanishing Move (Su)

When you wish to not be seen, you aren't. As a swift action, you can make yourself invisible until the end of your turn. This effect ends if you do anything other than move. If you expend one use of mythic power when using this ability, it instead acts as greater invisibility using double your tier as your caster level.

Now wait a minute... hold the bus. I never read the highlighted line. That changes this a bit. He has been moving all over the damn place.

Players...

Which he can do, IF he spends a mythic point.... so not all the time.


Man, they have so many mythic points. At this level they have 9 mythic points to spend. We average 3-4 battles a day, that means he can do this every battle without fail and then still use points for other things.

Mythic power attack lasts a minute, that is kind of silly, since that is really the realm of furious focus, which only lets you do it for a round. I really do not think they developers spent enough time on this... but again, I could be reading it wrong. I will make a new thread to ask this very question.

Furious Focus (Mythic)

Your attacks create a rhythmic barrage that doesn't sacrifice precision for force.

Prerequisite(s): Furious Focus.

Benefit: When you are using Furious Focus, you don't take Power Attack's penalty on attack rolls that are made as attacks of opportunity. As a free action, you can expend one use of mythic power to negate Power Attack's penalty on all melee attacks you make for 1 round while using this feat.

Power Attack (Mythic)

Your attacks are truly devastating.

Prerequisite(s): Power Attack.

Benefit: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3 bonus on melee damage rolls instead of +2. When your base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter, the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 instead of +2.

In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit, before it's multiplied by the weapon's critical multiplier.

You can expend one use of mythic power when you activate Power Attack to ignore the penalties on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks for 1 minute.


Hold on... I am an idiot.

So, with Vanishing move... if you spend your mythic point, you are greater invisible and can move all over the bloody place without issue. Duration: double your tier.

That's one powerful ability. So my players are honest :) That makes me happy.


You can tie invis purge to an item or an Unhollow.

Use TK/disarm/stun on the item/player before they have a chance to use it.


Yes... great suggestion!


Do you add your tier to the save DC for Mythic spell-like abilities or is it the same a every other (Sp)?


I don't think the spell DC changes at all. An area dispel would probably take it out the invisibility pretty quick.

The vanishing move ability has your caster level as double your tier, so at 3rd tier the caster level is only 6.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:

Really sorry to sound negative... But this is plain stupid.

I'm a little surprised at this.

Well, that was a helpful post...

Yes it was very helpful. It shows someone was upset enough about this they actually took time to come to the boards to express their negative feelings towards it.

Now it could be more helpful, but not evryone is as educated on how to convey the ideas and thoughts to help imrpove the product. Because they lack that insight does not mean not their input should be critized.

To provide further insight. I think this maybe a customer that can be reached out to. So they can expand on their feelings. I am willing to bet a csutomer that SKR has personally communicated with in a concerned postivie attitude would vastly increase that customers appreciation of the product.


This is hardly the most zonkers ability in that book. It isn't even in the top quarter. So arguing about it from a power standpoint means the arguer is ignoring context. Yes, mythic really is that good.

But.

In this instance, the rules lack clarity. This is a recurring problem in the text for Legendary Items as well as some of the mythic spells. It's like the path abilities went through the full edit and QA cycle while the spells and legendary items just got rushed to print. I'd love to see the section get a full rewrite--there are so many issues that it would be impossible to FAQ them all.


Globetrotter wrote:
Man, they have so many mythic points. At this level they have 9 mythic points to spend. We average 3-4 battles a day, that means he can do this every battle without fail and then still use points for other things.

This was an issue I had in the playtest. 3-4 battles per day isn't really working the PC's that hard. Especially with Mythic added in. There's a whole GMing section in Mythic that talks about how MRs add to the APL. So if you have a group of 3-5 level 4/MR 2 (medium MR progression) characters then one CR appropriate non-mythic encounter would be CR 6ish. You're talking a Babau at that CR...start using their darkness ability and greater teleporting away.

But in reality, with Mythic especially, you should probably be doubling that number of battles per day. 6-8 battles would be more appropriate, force them to actually care about when they spend mythic points, and making sure to adjust the CR level of the encounter will do wonders to make them feel like they are totally awesome if they spend a whole bunch of mythic resources to get past something that would have trounced them if they were non-mythic.

And then there's mythic monsters. I would suggest heavily using the monster creation sidebar in the book and then creating a creature (or two) that have a mythic blindsense/tremorsense/scent type of ability. Throw on one of the mythic templates while you're at it.

This would require you to talk to the group, but start asking them if they would like an increase in challenge and add +2 to the CR of each encounter.

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