The "Penis Brotherhood" in Rust


Pathfinder Online

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Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Pax Shane Gifford wrote:

Is there limited-range voice communication built into the game Rust? It appeared to be that way; if so, that's one feature I like. :)

Not saying we should have that for PfO though; in fact I don't think we should. But such a feature definitely adds to a game like Rust.

Yes, from other Rust videos I've seen (in which the people aren't morons), there does appear to be automatic voice chat, if someone has a mic, anyway. I'd rather PFO didn't do that, or if it did, there should be some way of quickly muting people who abuse it with screaming or whatever.

Goblin Squad Member

Drakhan Valane wrote:
Promoting a culture of rape is never okay.

Or slavery or killing, but wait...

Goblin Squad Member

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Ravenlute wrote:
Drakhan Valane wrote:
Promoting a culture of rape is never okay.
Or slavery or killing, but wait...

Earlier I thought through why I object to murder/rape sims, but not a war sim.

1) I don't think there's real life carryover. War happens at the level of the state--even if you're a military member, playing a war-game isn't going to make you going to war more likely. But play-practicing rape, assault, and anti-social interpersonal behavior can be carried over pretty easily. I think one of the reasons we have young men routinely committing rape, untroubled by remorse or a sense that they've committed a crime, is because they have a cultural context that normalizes a particular, and very impoverished, kind of masculinity that measures itself by hurting and using other people. Virtual practice at that can have real world cultural stakes.

2) The core issue is how we construct other human beings: Ich und Du vs. Ich un Es, Kant's articulation that we cannot treat others as ends, only means. I don't care if it's some small, shabby Rust server where people try and be as crappy as they can to others, tea-bagging in Conan, or a DOTA 2 game where the winning side taunts the losing side--you're practicing being a sack of crap virtually, and that has stakes for who you are holistically. Conflict in PFO is at the level of social structures, and doesn't support the kind of tea-bagging/rape-emoting that Bluddwolf and Pax Areks think is so clever and "emergently" hilarious.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

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Ravenlute wrote:
Drakhan Valane wrote:
Promoting a culture of rape is never okay.
Or slavery or killing, but wait...

Oh, you want rape in PFO? Stay classy. Here is why slavery and killing are not at the same level:

Slavery is gone. Those who advocate it are wisely looked upon as idiots. We are still dealing with the racism that followed, but that is something that will not be tolerated either. We do not live in a culture where slavery is exulted.

Murder is illegal and everyone knows this. If someone gets the idea that killing is something that is good from video games, their parents (and perhaps society) have failed them or they have a serious mental disorder. We do not live in a society where murder is exulted.

Rape is something our society has a huge problem with. Steubenville. Gamers in particular seem to think the term rape is cool to use. They think it's funny. We, as a society, tend to blame the victim. If you don't understand how seriously screwed up this is, you need to think about it.

In Italy, a 2006 National Statistic Institute survey on violence against women found that 91.6% of women who experienced rape did not report it to the police.

Promoting a culture of rape is never okay.

Goblin Squad Member

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There are circumstances under which violence is justifiable or even commendable, such as fighting off an aggressor who is preying upon the weak.

Under no circumstances is rape ever justifiable. It's not even really an arguable point.

Goblin Squad Member

Mbando wrote:
Conflict in PFO is at the level of social structures, and doesn't support the kind of tea-bagging/rape-emoting that Bluddwolf and Pax Areks think is so clever and "emergently" hilarious.

I'm not going to speak for Areks.. It was amusing because I can put it into its proper context. It is sophomoric humor, in bad taste, but harmless because it is taking place in a FAKE WORLD.

I find it more objectionable that you three are equating what happens in the virtual world to real life. Its like a throwback to the early 80's when we were told that playing D&D and listening to Heavy Metal would turn us all into pot smoking sociopaths.

Mbando, you are giving credence to those people that think all military personnel are programed to be baby killers and mindless drones for the far right, military-industrial complex. That is the kind of BS I dealt with when I returned from Iraq on my college campus.

Goblin Squad Member

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Bluddwolf wrote:
I find it more objectionable that you three are equating what happens in the virtual world to real life.

If that's what we were doing I would be demanding the maker of that video and the members of his organization be thrown into prison.

I'm under no illusion they actually raped the individuals being shown. What I am saying is that raping someone's digital avatar is demeaning and repulsive as well as a glorification of inexcusable behavior.

What I am saying is that's not an environment friendly to people sensitive to such issues, especially those (both men and women) who have been the victims of sexual assault or had those close to them sexually assaulted. Something which could be true of any person you approach to engage in this behavior.

Such "sophomoric humor" is about as appropriate as telling dead baby jokes in the company of a couple who just had a miscarriage. You're not actually killing their baby. It's still not acceptable.

Goblin Squad Member

Drakhan Valane wrote:
Ravenlute wrote:
Drakhan Valane wrote:
Promoting a culture of rape is never okay.
Or slavery or killing, but wait...

Oh, you want rape in PFO? Stay classy. Here is why slavery and killing are not at the same level:

Slavery is gone. Those who advocate it are wisely looked upon as idiots. We are still dealing with the racism that followed, but that is something that will not be tolerated either. We do not live in a culture where slavery is exulted.

Murder is illegal and everyone knows this. If someone gets the idea that killing is something that is good from video games, their parents (and perhaps society) have failed them or they have a serious mental disorder. We do not live in a society where murder is exulted.

Rape is something our society has a huge problem with. Steubenville. Gamers in particular seem to think the term rape is cool to use. They think it's funny. We, as a society, tend to blame the victim. If you don't understand how seriously screwed up this is, you need to think about it.

In Italy, a 2006 National Statistic Institute survey on violence against women found that 91.6% of women who experienced rape did not report it to the police.
Promoting a culture of rape is never okay.

Where did I ever say I want rape in PFO?

Just because it's more accepted doesn't suddenly make slavery or outright killing of another person any better than rape. Anything said otherwise is just an excuse. Slavery is NOT gone, they just tend to call it human trafficking these days.

Goblin Squad Member

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Ah forget it. This thread is probably too volatile for a game forum. It's going to get a bunch of folks yelling at each other and accomplish nothing in relation to PFO.

Evil people will do evil things and good people will try to stop them by sometimes doing evil things themselves.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Ravenlute wrote:

Where did I ever say I want rape in PFO? Point is, we have slavery and killing in PFO, how is that okay? You take the stance of many Americans, doesn't matter if you are. Just because it's more accepted doesn't suddenly make slavery or outright killing of another person any better than rape. Anything said otherwise is just an excuse. Slavery is NOT gone, they just tend to call it human trafficking these days.

So cry out against rape all you want but don't you dare diminish the severity of slavery and killing.

You are right about human trafficking. I had overlooked that in my rage that someone was defending rape. You'll find that my opinion of slavery and human trafficking is not much higher than rape. I would gladly accept slavery being removed from PFO. It rightfully gets you the heinous flag, however, which means you're fair game to be killed for enslaving people.

Goblin Squad Member

Well, thankfully there is not a rape action that can gain the heinous flag. Only idiots trying to make it look that way.

Goblin Squad Member

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Ravenlute wrote:
Point is, we have slavery and killing in PFO, how is that okay?

We can kill other player characters with the consequence of them staying dead?

We can enslave other players?

Goblin Squad Member

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I think one of the main reasons rape is such a big deal is it takes an act meant to be one of love and pleasure and turns it into one of fear, pain, helplessness, and often shame. Being raped is probably one of the single most physiologically damaging acts that can happen to someone. Even if it's only a one time thing. The effects often last a lifetime and bring a lot of pain and frustration into what should otherwise be a very enjoyable part of the healthy relationships they go on to engage in.

And again I'll repeat, there is never a justification for rape. Absolutely never.

It should never be portrayed in a way that is intended to be humorous or positive, such as it was in that video.

Goblin Squad Member

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So now people have to closet their amusement at a video or any off color humor that they see or hear. To express that they found humor in it is the same as saying, I hope it happens in real life.

Laugh at how someone gets killed in a video game, and you are a murderer at heart.

Laugh at a joke directed at one race or another, and you are a racist.

Laugh at a simulated sex act or tea bagging, and you are a rapist at heart.

What Paizo / Goblin Works should do is bar the linking of any video or other media from outside sources on these forums.

What is shocking to me is that Mbando found this video so offensive that he was compelled to bring it to these boards and expose us to it. How many of us would have known it existed before this thread? I certainly wouldn't of known of it.

I think this entire thread should be removed, it was toxic from the moment the title was written.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

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I'm actually glad he brought it to the forum. The things one finds humourous (or not), and the things one finds enjoyable (or not) in-game are pretty good indicators of the sort of fellow gamers one will work best with. It's been an eye-opening, and very helpful, read for me.

Goblin Squad Member

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Deianira wrote:
I'm actually glad he brought it to the forum. The things one finds humourous (or not), and the things one finds enjoyable (or not) in-game are pretty good indicators of the sort of fellow gamers one will work best with. It's been an eye-opening, and very helpful, read for me.

Quoted for freaking truth!

Goblin Squad Member

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Pax Charlie George wrote:

In Rust you are essentially all clones of the same emaciated Caucasian man. You literally have what you hold, and you generally don't hold it long.

It is literally faster and easier to take resources off of another player than it is to gather it yourself. The risk reward is skewed in conflicts favor, so that is what a lot of players do.

Building a base is relatively quick, infiltrating a base is relatively easy. There are ways to curb that by base architecture, but that just ups the amount of charges a person will need to make it to your storage crates.

I personally think Rust suffers from not knowing what it wants to be. In that vacuum people make their own entertainment. Often times that is a kill on site mentality, trolling, etc. In some rare moments the entertainment is made by a few players taking on the mantle of a hero and helping out new spawns.

Charlie, you're right in pointing out that there are mechanical, contextual reasons why behavior is so putrid in these kinds of games. I disagree though that content alone solves that problem--that if there's more artwork/models/"stuff to do"people won't be pigs. There was tons of stuff "to do" in UO, but the culture there was absolutely toxic. Ryan's summary analysis of UO is spot on:

Ryan Dancey wrote:

UO was envisioned as a "world simulator", and the guiding vision of the design was to try and take a "hand's off" approach, letting the society in the game develop purely based on what the players decided to do, in a world that would react to their actions logically.

Given the limits of the internet and video cards, Ultima Online was an atomic bomb of a success - especially when people started to do the math on what they were making on the monthly subscription price. Ultima Online is what got EQ funded and what got World of Warcraft underway at Blizzard. Pretty much anyone with half a brain could see that the "virtual world" genre was off to the races.

But Ultima Online got twisted. The in-game society wasn't anything like a "real world". And people were acting in really strange (and frankly horrifying) ways. Anonymity bred contempt for civility, and the small percentage of the population that is sociopathic found a safe outlet for their misbehavior. They could do things in UO that would get them arrested in the real world but which had no consequences of meaning in the virtual world.

Pretty soon the ethos in that game became all about abuse. Abuse of the players. Abuse of the mechanics. Abuse of the infrastructure (Famous anecdote: people used to line up on the edge of a zone boundary and coordinate walking across because the zone transfer software couldn't handle the load and it would crash the whole server. For fun. Regularly.)

So it's not just content, but rather the mechanics (or lack of mechanics) for social behavior, and the actual social process of building culture.

Gaming culture in the US overall is pretty disgusting, and that's very visible discursively. Speech is incredibly hateful, sexual harassment is normalized, and as we can see, when gameplay supports it, those things don't just happen, they're celebrated, recorded, and put on youtube. Then apologists trot out 1) "Oh lighten up it's a game" 2) "Oh lighten up it's emergent and clever" (or the new, bizarre 3) "On second thought I'm outraged this is being talked about and you are toxic and this thread should be deleted and you should be banned and then I win...I mean...cause reasons").

So beyond having something to do for players, 1) GW needs to have mechanical systems so that people can't do things in the virtual world without consequence that would get them arrested in the real world, and 2) GW and we as a community need to create a culture that supports both social behavior within social structure conflict.

Goblin Squad Member

I wasn't trying to make a defensive point, I was just offering my opinion of my play experience in Rust.

To be honest before I made my comment I hadn't even looked at the video you linked.

I weigh Rust in light of what the game is trying to be. Right now, to me, it doesn't seem to have a direction.

In the gritty survival genre it falls short of its competition. Pretty much everything that can be done to survive in the game is relatively easily done and easily broken. It makes me feel like I am in a survival cartoon, not a survival map.

That said I have absolutely no problem with the game GW is building. I have no problem with the reputation system, alignment, or CE being a jerk funnel.

At the end of the day I am a power gamer. I have been for probably the last five years or more. I don't play the game as I imagine it should be played. I optimize my choices and builds based on the game I am being presented.

Goblin Squad Member

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Those videos are certainly good argument for as much of a "consequential approach" to PVP in EE as is possible, balanced with good motivations to participate in PVP. Something with real "teeth" to discourage similar behavior. I could care less if it is a temporary set of systems or (even better) a crude set that gets expanded and tweaked. As long as it has real effects for undesirable or less desirable behaviors, as early as possible.

There will be "Let's play PfO" videos on youtube soon after EE starts and we definitely want the mood of the environment to be as close to what the more finished product is supposed to be as is possible. It is really difficult to counter negative opinion when it gets rolling.

Because this (to me at least) is of most immediate concern (certainly more than features that are almost 2 years out from implementation) I can hardly wait to read what GW has decided to do to address this. I hope that it proves to be a concern to them also. Enough of one to be a major priority for "earliest" EE.

The "community of player population" has proven over and over that it can't be trusted to regulate such things by itself.

Goblin Squad Member

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Just to put this out there, because it's one of my very favorite quotes from Ryan:

The most important thing is not that characters can kill other characters. The most important thing is that there are consequences for doing that. And it's a corollary of that statement that the more often a character kills other characters, or helps a character killer, the harder it must be for that character to recover from doing so.

(emphasis mine)

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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Bluddwolf wrote:
So now people have to closet their amusement at a video or any off color humor that they see or hear. To express that they found humor in it is the same as saying, I hope it happens in real life.

No. We aren't saying "That is funny, but also offensive." We are saying "That is empirically harmful and has no redeeming artistic or academic nature."

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

Just to put this out there, because it's one of my very favorite quotes from Ryan:

The most important thing is not that characters can kill other characters. The most important thing is that there are consequences for doing that. And it's a corollary of that statement that the more often a character kills other characters, or helps a character killer, the harder it must be for that character to recover from doing so.
(emphasis mine)

I don't think anyone can (reasonably) argue that Pathfinder Online won't have a developer intent to instill consequence on random player killing.

On that regard I am equally baffled at some of the comments made that the proposed systems will be built to do anything outside of the design intent, or that it will be quickly abandoned as a failure. We have been told the exact opposite, and to plan for a system far south of the intent to me is poor preparation.

In my case I might agree from a slightly different angle (I don't think realism or roleplay arguments are ever a valid reason for rebuilding mechanics. Those considerations should be met as long as they don't conflict with solid mechanics), but the affect is much the same.

Goblin Squad Member

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Mbando wrote:
Ravenlute wrote:
Drakhan Valane wrote:
Promoting a culture of rape is never okay.
Or slavery or killing, but wait...
Earlier I thought through why I object to murder/rape sims, but not a war sim.

1 out of every 4 or 5 people in the US aren't enslaved or involuntarily sent to war at some point in their life, are they?

So we don't have a culture -a set of learned ideas passed among members of a society- that says slavery or killing is okay.

We do have a culture that blames rape victims 100 different ways for what happened to them but not for victims of any other type of crime. Making jokes out of the action teaches (culture) that doing that action is a joke and thereby a kind of amusement, reinforcing and supporting a learned culture where rape "isn't a big deal" and "just for a laugh".

Don't you EVER try to justify it around me.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

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Besides making game materials I find fun, one of the reasons I love Paizo is their commitment to diversity and social justice. I would expect that being allowed to use the Pathfinder brand on PFO means that Goblinworks shares, or at least will not counter, Paizo's ethics.

Though not related to gaming, there was a short film released a few days ago that does make the point that little things which seem trivial or innocuous individually can influence a culture's reactions to not take certain crimes as seriously as they should.
It's in French, with English subtitles: Oppressed Majority
It's probably NSFW in the US, but I don't think the images and profanity are gratuitous or there for cheap shock. A lot of societal assumptions are inverted, and it's meant to be confusing and unsettling.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Pax Shane Gifford wrote:
Thanks for the amusing video. Here's to hoping our own EE experience does not devolve to the level of the "Penis Brothers".
Here's hoping that during MVP EE we will be presented with more to do than just that. That does mean, providing just gathering and crafting either, but some form of meaningful PvP.

I am on record saying, I hope we don't see that in PFO. I have said repeatedly, in this thread and others, I expect that GW will provide more meaningful reasons to engage in PvP than what is seen in this alpha video of Rust.

No one in this thread has said that what was in the video was desired game play for PFO. We simply said the video was amusing or funny. That is in no way condoning rape in the real world. It is not expressing the desire of seeing it in PFO.

Goblin Squad Member

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Meanwhile, at Morbis' house.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
We simply said the video was amusing or funny. That is in no way condoning rape in the real world.

Except it is. By saying things to the equivalent of "Rape is funny, rape is cool," you are condoning it. You're telling the victims that they are to be laughed at. You're telling the victims that their trauma is a source of entertainment.

Goblin Squad Member

Umm... No I'm not. I'm saying the video was funny. That isn't condoning rape.

Goblin Squad Member

@Drakhan, the fact that they are simulating rape is not the funny part, it's the absurdity of a dozen naked copies of one guy humping himself. Moreso the ridiculousness of the situation as compared to real life, less so the fact that they are crudely simulating a sexual encounter. of course this is just my own opinion, and humor is an entirely personal thing.

Additionally, I personally thought "J~$zus, the second Coming" was clever of him, and I actually really liked the part where they were running through the forest in the dead of night whooping like Indians, simply because of the absurdity of it and picturing something like that happening in real life (though it would be terrifying if I were the one inside the hut).

I think humor is something completely subjective; you can't tell someone else that something is not humorous, only that you don't find it humorous or it isn't considered humorous by our culture's standards.

Regardless of whether or not it's funny this type of behavior is obviously something that GW should in no way condone in their own game. I frankly don't care what these people want to do in a private server on some other game, but no MMO should allow anything close.

And finally, going back quite a bit, because I missed my opportunity to respond:

Bluddwolf wrote:
2. They used exactly the same recruitment tactics as the Romans...

So, when the Romans did it, did the whole Legion form a man-train, or was it just a smaller group of them? I'd imagine it would be pretty tiring to do this with every single new recruit. (/sarcasm, just couldn't resist)

Goblin Squad Member

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I hope I can stand in awe of the magnitude of the burdens people are able to carry, rather than stand in judgement about how they carry them. However, some carry their burdens with great pain, and I think that pain shows in their behavior. That still does not excuse the fact that they inflect pain, actual or virtual, on others in an attempt to not feel that pain themselves. It is at best selfish and at worst sadistic. There are times when I see something that is so disturbing that I have to laugh to keep from screaming and trying to break something in my anger, and ultimately, in my fear.

I think we should all take a breath.

Goblin Squad Member

Just waiting for this thread to die. PFO will never be anything like that video. It was disturbing, and its just a game doesn't cut it. If you can't see that try putting yourself in the shoes of those people being told "take your pants off and you can live" for about a second. That's all I got.

Goblin Squad Member

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Vwoom wrote:
Just waiting for this thread to die. PFO will never be anything like that video. It was disturbing, and its just a game doesn't cut it. If you can't see that try putting yourself in the shoes of those people being told "take your pants off and you can live" for about a second. That's all I got.

I get that something like that can possibly be traumatic for someone who's lived through something like that, but if it's traumatic for anyone else then they need professional help. So when you tell me to put myself in those shoes for "just s second"...I spent a lot longer than a second thinking about it, and all I could muster up in personal response was "meh".

If people were genuinely worried about triggering traumatic memories in others, posting a video like this and making it the number one topic of discussion on these forums for the past few days is not the way to accomplish that - you're kind of working backwards there, m'kay?

People are going to try to play the game and get involved in the dev made stories as well as the player made stories. Some of these people will get bored from time to time and attempt to come up with ways of having juvenile fun. They won't be looking for or expecting approval from people with a different idea of fun, and now matter how the game is designed, it won't stop people from occasionally finding some way to do something stupid. For that reason, this whole thread really just amounts to this week's PFO forum drama. Nothing more.

Goblin Squad Member

Blaeringr wrote:
If people were genuinely worried about triggering traumatic memories in others, posting a video like this and making it the number one topic of discussion on these forums for the past few days is not the way to accomplish that - you're kind of working backwards there, m'kay?

I think that rasing awareness of an action to censure the actor and rasing awareness of an action to derive enjoyment out of the reciever of the action are two very different things that have two very different effects.

Goblin Squad Member

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1:36-2:18

Xeen wrote:
You guys are too uptight for gaming!!!

I think that clip and this quote really cut right to the heart of the issue. I was going to write a long explanation as to what's wrong with these two little snippets, but I think the audience I'm speaking too already understands so I'll simplify it down to one line:

People should not be subjected to these kinds of attitudes and behaviors in a place they go to seek fun and entertainment.

Goblin Squad Member

I laughed...at the thought that grown men spent hours choreographing and editing this.

Goblin Squad Member

Papaver wrote:
Blaeringr wrote:
If people were genuinely worried about triggering traumatic memories in others, posting a video like this and making it the number one topic of discussion on these forums for the past few days is not the way to accomplish that - you're kind of working backwards there, m'kay?
I think that rasing awareness of an action to censure the actor and rasing awareness of an action to derive enjoyment out of the reciever of the action are two very different things that have two very different effects.

Two different intended effects. The intent of this thread is not being achieved.

Different people will want different kinds of fun, and people of differing points of view on this don't need each other's uptight approval before they go seeking it. It will happen, and drama like this will only inflate and feed into itself.

It's like you guys just discovered the internet yesterday. All this thread has accomplished is to reinforce the disgust of one group of people, a disgust and opinion that was already there, and to another group of people it has planted ideas and plans. Rant and plead about the intended purpose of this thread, the actual purpose is what it is whether you like it or not.

The Exchange

I think i am being talked out of playing PFO in a big hurry

Goblin Squad Member

Andius wrote:

1:36-2:18

Xeen wrote:
You guys are too uptight for gaming!!!

I think that clip and this quote really cut right to the heart of the issue. I was going to write a long explanation as to what's wrong with these two little snippets, but I think the audience I'm speaking too already understands so I'll simplify it down to one line:

People should not be subjected to these kinds of attitudes and behaviors in a place they go to seek fun and entertainment.

LOL, you guys are so concerned about a game that shows a penis to begin with. What do you expect after that? Looks to me like a large number of people were seeking fun and entertainment... and found it. All their "victims" joined with them and continued the process.

Are any of you playing Rust right now?

How does any of this effect PFO?

Expect to see this in PFO?

Why is this thread on the PFO forums anyway?

And yes, you guys are too uptight for gaming!!! Get over yourselves.

Goblin Squad Member

To be fair I think the intent of this thread was to show an example of what was not desired in PFO. Where is strayed was when it tried to connect legitimate activities (banditry, and yes, killing) to the same antics shown in the video.

Mbando specifically objected to a SAD being accepted leading to reputation gain. This tells me that he has never quite accepted the Developers plans, but instead of calling the Devs out on it, he has chosen to use this straw man argument.

"You see how bad this video is, that is what you are really asking for".

Then the thread took an even more strange and unintended turn (at least I hope it was unintended).

Mbando and others than morphed this OP and video into a measure of support for their own views. They expected that the support would be universal and that all would see the video as reprehensible.

Despite the fact that none have said they wanted to see that in PFO, some (including myself) found the video to be harmlessly amusing even though it is distasteful. WAIT... This was supposed to produce a reaction of universal disgust.

So the intent was then morphed into, "If you found it to be amusing" you condone rape. Not just in the game, but you find rape amusing in the real world.

The lengths that some will go to attack those that don't "Goose step" (yes I use that term on purpose)in complete compliance with their beliefs is actually worse than anything depicted in the video.

The "Thought Police" have arrived in full force. Be careful for what you express amusement in, or you will be labeled. Doesn't matter what context you were viewing it from, or what part of the video you found amusing. The OP did not want anyone to think it was amusing.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

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Mbando, as this thread will probably be locked or deleted soon - I've no doubt it's been reported multiple times - I'd like to publicly thank you again for posting it.

Despite the hyperbole beautifully encapsulated in Bluddwolf's last post, I don't think anyone here thinks those who find the video humourous are rapists, or condone rape. I certainly don't think so. I do think, however, that it's given me a very vivid picture of various posters' senses of humor, styles of gameplay, and, yes, empathy that will stand me in good stead going forward as I make decisions about who to spend time with in game.

Goblin Squad Member

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Papaver wrote:
Blaeringr wrote:
If people were genuinely worried about triggering traumatic memories in others, posting a video like this and making it the number one topic of discussion on these forums for the past few days is not the way to accomplish that - you're kind of working backwards there, m'kay?
I think that rasing awareness of an action to censure the actor and rasing awareness of an action to derive enjoyment out of the reciever of the action are two very different things that have two very different effects.

I'd add that pointing at something and saying "that's bad" is a wholly different experience than pointing at it and saying "that's funny" or "that's cool".

For folks who've experienced this kind of trauma, having someone point out something like this and condemn it can be extremely therapeutic. It would only be traumatic again if it were held up as something that shouldn't bother anyone, or as something that should actually be celebrated.

Goblin Squad Member

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Blaeringr wrote:
All this thread has accomplished is to reinforce the disgust of one group of people...

I doubt that.

More likely, the actual purpose of the thread was to demonstrate to the community who the jerks are. I imagine it accomplished that purpose fairly well.

A more obvious purpose was to try to instill in the community a shared sense of values, and I expect it served that purpose too, if perhaps not as successfully.

Goblin Squad Member

Xeen wrote:


LOL, you guys are so concerned about a game that shows a penis to begin with. What do you expect after that? Looks to me like a large number of people were seeking fun and entertainment... and found it. All their "victims" joined with them and continued the process.

Are any of you playing Rust right now?

How does any of this effect PFO?

Expect to see this in PFO?

Why is this thread on the PFO forums anyway?

And yes, you guys are too uptight for gaming!!! Get over yourselves.

"Gaming" does not imply having to stand for this kind of stuff. Neither does online gaming. This type of culture is not intrinsically a part of gaming anymore than "murder simulator" PvP is.

Virtual world gaming, as Ryan has indicated, could very well be the "new cinema", as important to the 21st century as film was to the 20th. But it will never get there as long as this mentality remains "de facto".

Rust is making good sales being the "penis" game. Then somebody else will be the next most hardcore for the most pathetic segment of the gamer population. Facepunch is an aptly named gaming company that knows how to make the quick buck and I assume that there will always be a "penis" game out there.

But that doesn't mean in any way shape or form, that all games or gamers have to accept this firecracker-in-the-frog-butt behavior.

Goblin Squad Member

T7V Avari wrote:


Virtual world gaming, as Ryan has indicated, could very well be the "new cinema", as important to the 21st century as film was to the 20th. But it will never get there as long as this mentality remains "de facto".

Disturbingly, imagine if it does and these antics are considered 'normal'.

Then again, I'm hoping towards the end of the 21st century, we'll have holo-rooms for gaming and actual nerve interfaces for our games.

Let's see how many people like the Penis Brothers when they get the actual sensation to go along with their 'lulz'.

Goblin Squad Member

When I watched the video, one of the first things that came to my mind was what if one of their 'victims' was a RL rape victim. That would be extremely traumatic for them.

Second thing was that I was a little bit 'disgusted' when I heard female players taking part in the virtual rape as well. I'd expect that from some juvenile (mentally) males, but less so for females.

Goblin Squad Member

You know what, I would also like to say thank you for bringing this thread to these forums. In a manner, perhaps similar to those implying the pretension that anyone who finds this kind of thing the least bit amusing is an unempathic cretin, this thread has helped me identify those members of the community who clearly lack a healthy ability to disassociate real life and make believe. You are providing a service, and I thank you!

Quote:
Second thing was that I was a little bit 'disgusted' when I heard female players taking part in the virtual rape as well. I'd expect that from some juvenile (mentally) males, but less so for females.

Thank you for implying that rape is a womans issue. And for reinforcing gender roles. Real helpful there.


DeciusBrutus wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
So now people have to closet their amusement at a video or any off color humor that they see or hear. To express that they found humor in it is the same as saying, I hope it happens in real life.
No. We aren't saying "That is funny, but also offensive." We are saying "That is empirically harmful and has no redeeming artistic or academic nature."

just a reminder, murder and slavery are trauma triggers too. the guy shooting naked ppl of their own sect with a shotgun was more offensive for me than the "goofy rape animation". if this happen in game ill be fighting against, but to say the other 2 are ok and condenm this one is only to combat others posters opinions.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

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Banesama wrote:

When I watched the video, one of the first things that came to my mind was what if one of their 'victims' was a RL rape victim. That would be extremely traumatic for them.

Second thing was that I was a little bit 'disgusted' when I heard female players taking part in the virtual rape as well. I'd expect that from some juvenile (mentally) males, but less so for females.

Remember that rape culture Drakhan Valane pposted about? Just as some men don't buy into it, some women do.

And/or it's similar (for all participants) to those who follow a bully's lead - better to support the strongman than be a potential victim yourself.

Goblin Squad Member

Kabal362 wrote:


just a reminder, murder and slavery are trauma triggers too. the guy shooting naked ppl of their own sect with a shotgun was more offensive for me than the "goofy rape animation". if this happen in game ill be fighting against, but to say the other 2 are ok and condenm this one is only to combat others posters opinions.

Triggers is a slippery slope. What about all the actual soldiers with actual PTSD that play shooters? For all we know the RL rape victim in that video is the guild leader. So no you can't control every dark corner of the human mind and its actions in a game that plays to that like Rust.

I just personally will not play in that kind of culture and there are many others who don't want to either for any of a million reasons. So no, we do not have to put up with it. All gaming culture does not have to put up with it.

Goblin Squad Member

I will say this, if nothing else, the responses to this thread will help cut down on any of the design department attempting to make Seoni-like outfits ...

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