One of my players is looking to multiclass into alchemist but he has a low intelligence. When he starts he will have an 11 intelligence (12 at best). My question is about his extracts and his mutagen. If he uses his mutagen for Strength it lowers his Intelligence, to a maximum of 10. The rules state that he needs an Intelligence of 10 + the level of the extract to know and USE an extract. Does that mean when he uses his mutagen for strength he cannot use any of his extracts until the duration is over?
The theme of the alchemist seems to be that the magic of the extract is set when they are mixed but the rules seem to go against that. Any advice would be great. Anything official would be even better. Thanks in advance.
This brings up odd questions about Infusion which is used by others.
I would say yes, but not if he has Infusion since I believe the intent of Infusion waives that requirement.
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I would be hesitant to compare extracts to spells yet again, but if something (anything) reduces your casting stat beneath the minimum needed to cast, you can't cast those spells.
So, normally, I would rule that you can't cast if your score drops below minimum.
On the other hand, the alchemist prepares the spells, and drinks them just like potions. Potions don't require a minimum, so extracts shouldn't require a minimum to DRINK, just PREPARE.
The question now becomes: which is an extract closest to, a spell or a potion?
And that is a question not very easily answered.
I would lean towards the idea that extracts kind of work more like potions, and your intelligence while preparing them, rather than at the time of use, is the main factor.
I mean, you can prepare those same extracts as infusions and allow other party members, even someone that has an int of 5, to use it and gain benefits.
It seems to me that the nature of extracts themselves are built around the idea that you will be dumping your Int later with the mutagen. If that wasn't the case, then why would Paizo go to all the trouble rather than just making it like normal spellcasting instead?
Actually I'm gonna go back on what I said.
Penalties are treated like ability damage, and ability damage does not prevent the use of say Power Attack when your strength is damaged below 13.
So the Alchemist would retain their ability to use extracts. (How hard could it be to just drink the potion eh?)
Found a relevant post by JJ back in 2010 heh.
If someone has a more up to date representation lemme know.
Doesn't matter, ability damage reduces your ability modifier, but not your ability score.
But for alchemists, I'd say that the intelligence requirement is for prepping, not using. It's the only thing that makes sense.
Actually I'm gonna go back on what I said.
Penalties are treated like ability damage, and ability damage does not prevent the use of say Power Attack when your strength is damaged below 13.
So the Alchemist would retain their ability to use extracts. (How hard could it be to just drink the potion eh?)
Found a relevant post by JJ back in 2010 heh.
If someone has a more up to date representation lemme know.
Thank you Scavion! I think this is the closest to a true official answer I've seen on this issue. Thanks to everyone else as well.
So Touch of Idiocy is a particular case ?
Arf, I played it wrong all this time! : /
Ability Damage: Damage to your Intelligence score causes you to take penalties on Intelligence-based skill checks. The Ability Damage penalty also applies to any spell DCs based on Intelligence. See Ability Score Damage below.
Some spells and abilities cause you to take an ability penalty for a limited amount of time. While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1.
Here's your official answer. :P
vivi monk.
int 13 strength mutagen reduces by 2 so it becomes 11
trip has requisite of 13 but my character can still do ability
tried to equip and unequip int headbands but no result. whether or not int is 11 or 13 character can still do trip
Hi chat, welcome to the forums.
Are you by any chance referring to one of the Pathfinder computer games?
I don't like this thread. It reminds me of the inexorable passage of time.
I like the one person marking his first reply as FAQ candidate.