Monk and Master work transformation


Rules Questions


So, the monks unarmed strikes are treated as a manufactured weapons. MW Transformation let's you turn a regular weapon to a MW weapon. It doesnt seem right to me but why doesn't it work?


Because the spell requires that the affected item have an actual masterwork equivalent to be transformed into, and unarmed strikes do not have a masterwork equivalent.


I would think all manufactured weapons have a masterwork equivalent. Sure the only way to get this one is through magic, but still.


Prove it. Find me a masterwork unarmed strike.

Edit: No Chuck Norris doesn't count, and neither does Bruce Lee.


Find a masterwork bastard sword. I see bastard sword in the book, then the rules saying you can make a weapon masterwork.


Why should I? I'm not claiming masterwork Weapons That Shall Not Be Named exist. You're claiming that masterwork unarmed strikes exist and I'm asking for evidence of that claim.

Sczarni

Rocky, by RAW, and from the Developers themselves, it has been stated:

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
"BTW I wouldn't let you cast masterwork transformation on an unarmed strike, mainly because there is no "masterwork equivalent" for a unarmed strike, which means the spell would have no effect."

The spell specifically calls out that there must be a Masterwork Version of the item in existence before the spell can take effect on the item in question. If there isn't, then the spell just fizzles and has no effect.

What people don't seem to understand, due to a mixture of different perceptions and poor reading skills, is that a Masterwork Equivalent must exist before this spell can ever have any effect.

Let's break this part down about the Monk and his Unarmed Strike:
"A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."

This simply means that our Unarmed Strike can now officially be a target of spells that enhance those two specific items mentioned. So spells that normally effect only manufactured or natural weapons, can now be applied to our Unarmed Strike. Great.

Now let's break down Masterwork Transformation:
MASTERWORK TRANSFORMATION
"You convert a non-masterwork item into its masterwork equivalent. A normal sword becomes a masterwork sword, a suit of leather armor becomes a masterwork suit of leather armor, a set of thieves' tools becomes masterwork thieves' tools, and so on. If the target object has no masterwork equivalent, the spell has no effect. You can affect 50 pieces of ammunition as if they were one weapon. You decide if the object's appearance changes to reflect this improved quality."

Now that we got past the first barrier of potentially putting weird and cool effects on our Unarmed Strike, we can look at the next barrier, a more specific barrier, and see if we can clear that too.
Everything looks good and qualifies, except for the part If the target object has no masterwork equivalent, the spell has no effect.

That puts a stop to everything as that is the most specific call out, and trumps other General and Specifics that occurred before it came along. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Monks, and I'm all in favor of them being able to get a +10 without having to resort to a dinky weapon, but the rules here just make sense. :T

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Rocky Williams 530 wrote:
Find a masterwork bastard sword. I see bastard sword in the book, then the rules saying you can make a weapon masterwork.

You are going to find a lot of trouble with these types of stances you are taking on the rules.

I'd recommend for your enjoyment that you switch from the "it doesn't say I can't" stance to the more generally used "it says I can" stance.

You can do MW Transformation on Unarmed Strikes because they can't be made Masterwork normally.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What's the weapon of an unarmed striker... the creature itself. Creature is not a valid target of the spell, end of story.


Golems are animate manufactured weapons of sort. You could potentially make a golems arms masterworks and we'd have a dilemma if to treat his smash attacks as armed or unarmed as technically he's doing the same as a monk - pounding his fists against something.
You could make a masterwork gauntlet, not much difference.
Of course masterworking something organic and still living is a tad more cheesy, but i just had to post it and see the world burn

As for the antiview - you could just go on how living beings are masterworks of creation - thus can't be made masterworked as they already are.

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