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...your mage thinks he's a rogue and triggers every trap you encounter...
...your paladin insists on power attacking everything in sight (and not hitting at all)...
...your cleric gives you a blank stare when you hand them a wand of CLW to use on the party...
...your barbarian keeps dropping in fights because the cleric is giving a blank stare...
...your rogue doesn't have the trap sense or trap-finding aspects because they are using a different archetype...
...and your fighter is an unoptimized poorly built two-weapon fighter...
...I *still* have no idea how we managed to make it out of Legacy of the Stone Lords (1-3) without dying... (And managing to complete most of the objectives for the chronicle sheet, too.)
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... your character is kicked out of most establishments because of his poor hygiene and poor people skills..... Also, it seems that some Were Rats are attracted to his smell.....
... your character tried to break up a fight, but instead instigates a fight that happens to kill someone after being explicitly told to not hurt any townsfolk (Non Lethal Crit with a Warhammer, with the observers failing their heal checks, which saved me there).....
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Your PC is wearing less revealing clothes than Feiya, or Seoni, and certainly more than the loincloth/boots only wearing male Barbarian across the table, but the DM keeps insisting only your PC is "indecent", and will be viewed poorly by NPCs.
But hay! some of us spend HOURS and lots of gold just to get that "indecent look"!
(wink)
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GM: Welcome to the Ruins of Bonekeep, the threat of PC death is very real, but the rewards are far greater than normal.
Player 1: It's okay, I brought a Pregen.
Player 2: Hey me, too.
Player 3: Make that three.
Player 4: ...
GM: Uh, alright, so what classes do we have?
Player 1: Ranger
Player 2: Gunslinger
Player 3: Also Ranger.
Player 4: Gets up and walks away
I saw this at Gencon.
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I did something similar for a season 5 tier 5-9. I saw multiple pregens and just left.Isn't that pretty much exactly the elitist attitude we don't want to show new players?
Hopefully, new players will be told that if they don't know what they're doing, playing level 7 pregens is going to be tougher than sticking to lower level stuff, and they will be smart enough to see the point.
I'm all for handing a newbie a level 1 pregen just to get them at the table and playing, in the hopes that they'll get into it enough to come back. But I cringe whenever we hand a level 7 pregen to the newbies and tell them to go play at a higher tier table, which does happen regularly at the store where I mostly play.
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Isn't that pretty much exactly the elitist attitude we don't want to show new players?
If the choice is between possibly looking like an elitist, and most likely getting my character killed/not be able to experience the scenario properly. I'd rather look like an elitist.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I did something similar for a season 5 tier 5-9. I saw multiple pregens and just left.Isn't that pretty much exactly the elitist attitude we don't want to show new players?
The fourth player would be the only one actually risking his PC in a known killer adventure. Moreover, he'd be doing it with the "help" of people playing pregens which are known to be weaker than most real PCs of the same level.
Using pregens to avoid risk to your PC is not sportsmanlike, I think. So if people were bringing pregens because they didn't want to risk their PCs on Bonekeep, I think Mr. 4 was justified in walking away.
If the others were bringing so many pregens because they didn't actually have PCs in the right level range, I'd say that they should've signed up for a different adventure (or that the GM should've scheduled a different adventure).
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I did something similar for a season 5 tier 5-9. I saw multiple pregens and just left.Isn't that pretty much exactly the elitist attitude we don't want to show new players?
It's not elitist in a finite-loot campaign like PFS. Don't worry, they never even knew I was supposed to be at the table. I overheard the situation at the muster area and just became a no-show.
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I did something similar for a season 5 tier 5-9. I saw multiple pregens and just left.Isn't that pretty much exactly the elitist attitude we don't want to show new players?
For a 1 - 5 encounter and some 3 - 7 encounters, I do not mind sitting down with new players and helping them out. For something that has the reputation that Bonekeep has, I will be more selective.
I would also walk away from a group wanting to play Bonekeep, all with pregens. I want to see the fear of that player's character possibly dying and their willingness to still play it instead of playing a pregen. It is like someone voting to play hard mode, getting their way, and then pulling out a pregen.
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Your PC is wearing less revealing clothes than Feiya, or Seoni, and certainly more than the loincloth/boots only wearing male Barbarian across the table, but the DM keeps insisting only your PC is "indecent", and will be viewed poorly by NPCs.
But hay! some of us spend HOURS and lots of gold just to get that "indecent look"!
(wink)
Oi, that may be true, but sometimes dressing likee that may be too much for me to pay attention to the important things.... Like who gets hit next wit me hammer!
Ahem, back on the subject....
.... the barbarian is acting like a mount for the gnome sorcerer, just to make sure the gnome gets up ladders.
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Most areas will have at least one or two players like that. There are also the players that complain when they play in a hard or challenging encounter.
I don't mind hard scenarios. Challenging parts are cool. Suicidal parts are not.
It's when players do the *sensible* thing and attempt to regroup and re-equip when they were woefully unprepared for what they were encountering and the response is 'Oh, whups you failed the mission, sorry' is what gets me fired up a bit.
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Most areas will have at least one or two players like that. There are also the players that complain when they play in a hard or challenging encounter.I don't mind hard scenarios. Challenging parts are cool. Suicidal parts are not.
It's when players do the *sensible* thing and attempt to regroup and re-equip when they were woefully unprepared for what they were encountering and the response is 'Oh, whups you failed the mission, sorry' is what gets me fired up a bit.
I totally understand and agree. There are encounters that can be suicidal if things are not prepared for. I have a pc who once got half gold on an encounter because no one had a way to counter act magical darkness and the only one with darkvision is the unconscious pc we are dragging out of the dungeon.
What I was referring to was a player being a whiny complaining @&%ch in a specific 5-9 encounter when the other four players are taking the difficulty like champions. The GM, who is a great GM, ran it in great fashion. We even had 2 level 5s playing up on 8-9 tier (4 player adjustment).
There are encounters that I have GMed before playing or have heard rumors about its reputation and thus would only play it with a specific pc and in some cases, other specific players.
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Your PC is wearing less revealing clothes than Feiya, or Seoni, and certainly more than the loincloth/boots only wearing male Barbarian across the table, but the DM keeps insisting only your PC is "indecent", and will be viewed poorly by NPCs.
Some people just can't stand the idea of attractive female Half-Orcs.
Seriously, this PC was built to act as a "face".
Instead, we had the Barbarian, and Wizard(both with little to no social skills) doing all the talking, whilst I was literally told to shut up, by the NPC, and even hit by the Barbarian, when I tried to do some more talking, The player running Seoni, just decided they wouldn't get involved.
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I totally understand and agree. There are encounters that can be suicidal if things are not prepared for. I have a pc who once got half gold on an encounter because no one had a way to counter act magical darkness and the only one with darkvision is the unconscious pc we are dragging out of the dungeon.
What I was referring to was a player being a whiny complaining @&%ch in a specific 5-9 encounter when the other four players are taking the difficulty like champions. The GM, who is a great GM, ran it in great fashion. We even had 2 level 5s playing up on 8-9 tier (4 player adjustment).
There are encounters that I have GMed before playing or have heard rumors about its reputation and thus would only play it with a specific pc and in some cases, other specific players.
We *might* have had a chance to do it without a regroup, despite having a L1 Kyra, Lem, Merisiel, Valeros...[A really cool family unit that was playing well together and I hope they didn't get chased off!] (I was on a L2 Slayer TWF build) except for the fact that we had a L2 'mad bomber what bombs at midnight' alchemist that kept triggering encounters before we had a chance to recover from previous ones, and who almost wiped the party two or three times in their haste.
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Your PC is wearing less revealing clothes than Feiya, or Seoni, and certainly more than the loincloth/boots only wearing male Barbarian across the table, but the DM keeps insisting only your PC is "indecent", and will be viewed poorly by NPCs.
Some people just can't stand the idea of attractive female Half-Orcs.
Seriously, this PC was built to act as a "face".
Instead, we had the Barbarian, and Wizard(both with little to no social skills) doing all the talking, whilst I was literally told to shut up, by the NPC, and even hit by the Barbarian, when I tried to do some more talking, The player running Seoni, just decided they wouldn't get involved.
I have had this happen before too...
"The NPC sneers at your half orc, clearly repulsed"
"Um, you know he has an 18 charisma and is rather charming and attractive?"
"Well, you are a half orc, so you are still ugly and repulsive"
"..."
Eventually started overplaying his charisma and appearance, tossing his luxurious mane of hair that always seemed to be lifted by a gentle breeze, in slow motion with back lighting whenever he spoke.
He basically became the Fabio of half orcs.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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GM: Welcome to the Ruins of Bonekeep, the threat of PC death is very real, but the rewards are far greater than normal.
Player 1: It's okay, I brought a Pregen.
Player 2: Hey me, too.
Player 3: Make that three.
Player 4: ...
GM: Uh, alright, so what classes do we have?
Player 1: Ranger
Player 2: Gunslinger
Player 3: Also Ranger.
Player 4: Gets up and walks away
I saw this at Gencon.
My very first PFS scenario was Bonekeep 3, and I played Kyra ^^ The other players seemed to like it, and I got my chance to shine (even though Kyra doesn't have a wealth of combat options).
A Table with 2 Harsks though... even the idea is terrible.
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"The NPC sneers at your half orc, clearly repulsed.
It ain't easy being green.
To be fair, for the average NPC in pretty much anywhere other than Osirion, the green tusked monster (Half-Orc) looks pretty damn similar to the green tusked monster (Full Orc) that made up the brunt of their childhood scary stories. Hell, in countries neighboring Belkzen, you'd probably get KOS'd, flowing hair notwithstanding.
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My very first PFS scenario was Bonekeep 3, and I played Kyra ^^ The other players seemed to like it, and I got my chance to shine (even though Kyra doesn't have a wealth of combat options).
Kyra is actually a half-way decent support cleric, and if the GM lets you re-slot her spells, she can be on-par with PCs.
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I didn't think GMs had a choice on divine casters. There is no mechanical reason why Kyra can't reslot.
The adventure starts at 3am with Drandle Drenge telling you to go out to the harbor right now.
Your GM could reasonably rule that Kyra is stuck with the slots listed.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Our GM was nice enough to let me reslot her spells, I had the argument on these boards before, reading changes to inconics.
Take a look at the shaman class and the pregen, it has the wandering spirit class feature, and while I plan to play her on saturday, and the current choices are very good... a class feature like this is there to be used.
And frankly considering that Bonekeep is Bonekeep, penalizing the other players for unfortunate pregen choices (Kyras spells, even if I have to mention, that there is a legitimate reason to prepare cure spells).
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I didn't think GMs had a choice on divine casters. There is no mechanical reason why Kyra can't reslot.The adventure starts at 3am with Drandle Drenge telling you to go out to the harbor right now.
Your GM could reasonably rule that Kyra is stuck with the slots listed.
In that case, I suppose. It's still getting a bit close to player griefing, but sure.
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In that case, I suppose. It's still getting a bit close to player griefing, but sure.I didn't think GMs had a choice on divine casters. There is no mechanical reason why Kyra can't reslot.The adventure starts at 3am with Drandle Drenge telling you to go out to the harbor right now.
Your GM could reasonably rule that Kyra is stuck with the slots listed.
You should always have time to prep spells before game starts; the "adventure starts at 3AM" scenario simply stops you from prepping spells with knowledge of what is about to happen (IE if you know that Water Breathing would be a good idea due to the scenario's introduction, you wouldn't get to prep it).
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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You should always have time to prep spells before game starts; the "adventure starts at 3AM" scenario simply stops you from prepping spells with knowledge of what is about to happen (IE if you know that Water Breathing would be a good idea due to the scenario's introduction, you wouldn't get to prep it).In that case, I suppose. It's still getting a bit close to player griefing, but sure.I didn't think GMs had a choice on divine casters. There is no mechanical reason why Kyra can't reslot.The adventure starts at 3am with Drandle Drenge telling you to go out to the harbor right now.
Your GM could reasonably rule that Kyra is stuck with the slots listed.
Which is why it's important for prep casters to know the rules for leaving open slots; even if you start at 3am, there's usually at least some point early on that you can spare a measley 15 minutes to fill the rest of your slots.
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"Hi, i thought the table i ran this morning was "instead of " not "in addition to" this table so I took my pain meds. If you've ever had something you wanted to slip past the dm, go ahead! I won't notice.
Seriously?
I'd be even *more* paranoid when a GM says something like that. In another campaign, we had someone who would feign being a 'stupid' GM and then when folks started pulling shenanigans, would make the payback come in a reasonable and timely fashion...
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Your PC is wearing less revealing clothes than Feiya, or Seoni, and certainly more than the loincloth/boots only wearing male Barbarian across the table, but the DM keeps insisting only your PC is "indecent", and will be viewed poorly by NPCs.
Some people just can't stand the idea of attractive female Half-Orcs.
Seriously, this PC was built to act as a "face".
Instead, we had the Barbarian, and Wizard(both with little to no social skills) doing all the talking, whilst I was literally told to shut up, by the NPC, and even hit by the Barbarian, when I tried to do some more talking, The player running Seoni, just decided they wouldn't get involved.
I have had this happen before too...
"The NPC sneers at your half orc, clearly repulsed"
"Um, you know he has an 18 charisma and is rather charming and attractive?"
"Well, you are a half orc, so you are still ugly and repulsive"
"..."
Eventually started overplaying his charisma and appearance, tossing his luxurious mane of hair that always seemed to be lifted by a gentle breeze, in slow motion with back lighting whenever he spoke.
He basically became the Fabio of half orcs.
...and the same NPC smiles, and just adores the 5 Charisma Dwarf.
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The white board is already covered in lines, circles, and symbols. It appears to be some sort of primitive map. Several humanoids are gesticulating wildly and making excited noises. A hush falls as you enter the room. The humanoids begin to smile...
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...and the same NPC smiles, and just adores the 5 Charisma Dwarf.Your PC is wearing less revealing clothes than Feiya, or Seoni, and certainly more than the loincloth/boots only wearing male Barbarian across the table, but the DM keeps insisting only your PC is "indecent", and will be viewed poorly by NPCs.
Some people just can't stand the idea of attractive female Half-Orcs.
Seriously, this PC was built to act as a "face".
Instead, we had the Barbarian, and Wizard(both with little to no social skills) doing all the talking, whilst I was literally told to shut up, by the NPC, and even hit by the Barbarian, when I tried to do some more talking, The player running Seoni, just decided they wouldn't get involved.
I have had this happen before too...
"The NPC sneers at your half orc, clearly repulsed"
"Um, you know he has an 18 charisma and is rather charming and attractive?"
"Well, you are a half orc, so you are still ugly and repulsive"
"..."
Eventually started overplaying his charisma and appearance, tossing his luxurious mane of hair that always seemed to be lifted by a gentle breeze, in slow motion with back lighting whenever he spoke.
He basically became the Fabio of half orcs.
Clearly, that 'version' of the world was filled with people who found 'ugly' to be more attractive. Must have been Land of the Dump Stat...
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Clearly, that 'version' of the world was filled with people who found 'ugly' to be more attractive. Must have been Land of the Dump Stat...
Nope.
Seoni is still hot, and nobody bats an eye at the little amount of clothes she wears.
Along with 5 charisma Dwarf, even if he is only wearing a sock, and some boots.
