Small Beat stick


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Sczarni

I wanted to try and make a small two handed melee character and I was wondering, What is the highest possible damage dice can I get at 1st level?

As far as I can tell it is 1d10, is it possible to get higher than that?


Take the -2 attack penalty and use a medium sized weapon for 1d12 or 2d6 damage.

You would also need to take the appropriate weapon proficiency feat to avoid the -4 non-proficiency penalty. For instance, Martial Weapon Proficiency (medium earth breaker).

Shadow Lodge

Lakesidefantasy wrote:
Take the -2 attack penalty and use a medium sized weapon for 1d12 or 2d6 damage.

A small character can't use a medium-sized two-handed weapon. What they can do is use a medium-sized one-handed weapon in two hands, but that only gives you d10 damage at most (for a medium bastard sword or dwarven waraxe with Exotic Weapon Proficiency).

Inappropriately Sized Weapons wrote:

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.


Weirdo wrote:


The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.

Damn! So that probably means a human can't use a large ogre hook either. (Back to the drawing board.)

Sczarni

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I am writing up a backup character for my Rise of the Rune lords game, my current character is still alive I just want to be prepared and I only ever play melee warriors.

I rescued a baby Goblin in the game and decided that my character would raise him to be a good guy and basically be my backup character. So I wanted to make sure that the biggest damage dice I could get for him would be 1d10

I know that small characters are not the optimal option for melee characters but I don;t play that way. I play characters that I would enjoy and make for a good story.


Pretty sure this doesn't work. You can't use a medium 2h weapon on a small character without something like Powerful Build. A medium 1h weapon would be a 2h weapon for that small character, on top of the -2 size difference penalty.

From http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons :

Weapon Size:

Weapon Size

Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.

A weapon's size category isn't the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon's size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.

Sczarni

right and the damage for a small Greatsword or Greatax or Earthbreaker are all 1d10


I wouldn't go two handed. I don't think you can afford it. 18 strength for a human turns into 14 strength for a goblin. There's really only two ways to make a small martial work: lance charges or dervish dance and I don't think RotRL is lancer friendly.

Use a two level two weapon style ranger dip to get power attack without paying for 15 strength.

Sczarni

I am not a dervisher, I only really enjoy playing two handed melee types.

Shadow Lodge

Small two-handed fighters aren't too bad. One of my players did just fine with a titan mauler halfling barbarian. He got lucky with stat rolls and started with a 16 strength (20 raging). That plus Power Attack gives you a decent damage. I did use the archetype creator's house-rule suggestion and allowed him to use medium-size two-handed weapons at level 6 (when the archetype reduces the oversize weapon penalty to 0) despite the fact that the ability doesn't allow that by RAW - but that only added about a point of damage per attack so I think the character wouldn't have been too weak without it.

I'd try a build that makes use of AoOs (like a Come and Get Me barbarian) to make use of the racial +4 Dex.

It is hard mode, though. Hope you have a generous stat allotment and the rest of your group doesn't optimize too hard.


Here's a thought: Could you take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (medium bastard sword), to wield a medium bastard sword two-handed and get 2d6 damage?


Lakesidefantasy wrote:
Here's a thought: Could you take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (medium bastard sword), to wield a medium bastard sword two-handed and get 2d6 damage?

No, Lakesidefantasy, that won't work either. This is obviously too hard for you so quit thinking about it. :)

Silver Crusade

You probably can't get big damage dice. The question is, why do you care? Pretty soon most of your damage comes from static bonuses, and the damage dice become a rounding error.

I'm guessing you actually meant, "How can I inflict decent damage with a small-size Two Hand Weapon fighter?". The answer is, "Get good static bonuses, and get lots of attacks". There are plenty of ways besides STR to get static bonuses. One easy way to get multiple attacks is to get a lot of AoOs. One big attack for 1d10+9 (small greatsword, 18 STR, PA) is less effective than two or three attacks for 1d6+6 (small longspear, 14 STR, PA).

Have you considered choosing a class that gets big static bonuses not dependent on STR? That way you just need enough strength for Power Attack (13). For example, an Inquisitor gets great static bonuses. A small 5th level Inquisitor with 14 STR and Power Attack will inflict considerably more than +15 static damage. That's at least +3 damage from STR, +3 from PA, and +9 (on average) from Bane. At that point, who cares whether your base damage is 1d10 or 1d4? Combine that with Combat Reflexes to get lots of AoOs and you'll have a huge damage output.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Lakesidefantasy wrote:
Here's a thought: Could you take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (medium bastard sword), to wield a medium bastard sword two-handed and get 2d6 damage?

You cannot talk about this weapon.


I was told long ago that bastard swords don't exist, so the whole argument is invalid. : )

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