Ways to fool tremorsense?


Advice

Silver Crusade

What are some ways, via feats or spells, to fool tremorsense? I'm playing a level 12 ninja in a RotRL campaign and I plan on taking Skill Focus (stealth) and Dampen Presence with my level 13 and 15 feats, and I already get greater invisibility from Invisible Blade. The only 2 senses left for me to get around are Scent and Tremorsense, and I'm not particularly worried about Scent.


Fly, Overland Flight, Levitate, etc...

Anything that gets you off the ground.


Perhaps a silence spell, depending on how the DM interprets tremorsense.


tonyz wrote:
Perhaps a silence spell, depending on how the DM interprets tremorsense.

Having a hard time seeing what kind of interpretation could possibly translate ""Blocks someone from hearing" into "Blocks someone from feeling vibrations".


Because sound is vibrations. Vibrations in the ground are actually sound-waves travelling through it.


Being incorporeal does it as well - I think ninjas have some way to turn incorporeal.


Dabbler wrote:
Because sound is vibrations. Vibrations in the ground are actually sound-waves travelling through it.

Sound is vibrations but not all vibrations are sound.

If I punch a deaf person they're still going to feel it.

Same principle.

The force of my movement translates from my body and travels as waves through the surface. They might also MAKE sound, but the vibrations themselves are not limited ONLY to sound. At least as far as I know.

Regardless, magic =/= physics.


7 people marked this as a favorite.

Thumper. Ten out of ten Fremen recommend.

Silver Crusade

Steel, they do ummmmm Ghost Step ninja trick. I was looking for something more permanent. I was hoping the Light Step class ability would do it for me, but alas, it does not.


3 levels of Cave Druid will get you Lightfoot which will permanently keep you off the tremorsense radar.

Not terribly optimal for you though...

Edit: Boots of the Soft Step (Legacy of Fire magic item) blocks tremorsense if you move slowly enough. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots -of-the-soft-step

Scarab Sages

Heavens Oracle with Lure of the Heavens revelation has always on levitation. Not really what you are looking for.


Your best bet may just to be to spring for a Pearl of Power...5 I think and give it to your Wizard and have him cast Overland Flight on you every day. Hover like an inch off the ground at all times.


Rynjin wrote:
Dabbler wrote:
Because sound is vibrations. Vibrations in the ground are actually sound-waves travelling through it.

Sound is vibrations but not all vibrations are sound.

If I punch a deaf person they're still going to feel it.

A punch is a kinetic impact, note that normal melee attacks are not listed as "sonic" damage...

I do take your point, but I think you missed mine. Sonic is vibration, an attack relies on an impact that can generate vibrations, but mainly damages due to an impact.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Humphrey Boggard wrote:
Thumper. Ten out of ten Fremen recommend.

It's a shame this hasn't gathered more attention. This is a great idea for a cheap item.


Anguish wrote:
Humphrey Boggard wrote:
Thumper. Ten out of ten Fremen recommend.
It's a shame this hasn't gathered more attention. This is a great idea for a cheap item.

All you need is a short stake with a spring-driven clapper affixed to it. That and the ability to change your stride to something slow and non-rhythmic, like the winds blowing across the desert sand.

Scarab Sages

There is the Piston Maul, Not much difference between it and a Thumper.

Scarab Sages

I had a GM that let me use prestidigitation to make the noise of something moving right behind the creature, with a bluff check to see if I fooled it. Gained us a round.


Rynjin wrote:
Your best bet may just to be to spring for a Pearl of Power...5 I think and give it to your Wizard and have him cast Overland Flight on you every day. Hover like an inch off the ground at all times.

Overland flight has a range of personal, so it cannot be cast on him.

You could try a custom magic item based on horseshoes of the Zephyr, or grit your teeth and have the regular item nailed on :p

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/horse shoes-of-a-zephyr


Dabbler wrote:
Because sound is vibrations. Vibrations in the ground are actually sound-waves travelling through it.

Sound is vibration but I wouldn't go as far to say that vibrations are sound waves travelling through it. Vibrations create sound. The silence spell would only surpress the sound, the byproduct of vibrations and not the vibrations themselves.


ToxicDragon wrote:
Dabbler wrote:
Because sound is vibrations. Vibrations in the ground are actually sound-waves travelling through it.
Sound is vibration but I wouldn't go as far to say that vibrations are sound waves travelling through it. Vibrations create sound. The silence spell would only surpress the sound, the byproduct of vibrations and not the vibrations themselves.

It all depends on interpretation really. Technically tremorsense is relying on sound-waves travelling through the ground, because vibrations propagating in any medium are by definition sound waves. But how the DM chooses to interpret this is another matter. The DM is free to rule that tremorsense is distinct from hearing/sonar because it travels through a solid rather than a fluid medium, and I am cool with that.


If you can't fly, it could be possible to Climb along walls/cieling/etc to avoid vibrating the ground...?
And/or jumping between trees/etc.

Liberty's Edge

No interpretation needed... a deaf person will not hear a rock drop, but they will still feel the vibrations. The in game definitions are clear, technicalities are for when people are trying to get around rules.

Liberty's Edge

Quandary wrote:

If you can't fly, it could be possible to Climb along walls/cieling/etc to avoid vibrating the ground...?

And/or jumping between trees/etc.

If the walls and ceiling are attached to the floor, tremor sense should still pick up the vibrations.


Try jumping reeeeeeally far. Like from outside of tremorsense range on top of it and hope it dies. If that fails you can always cart around a catapault with shrink item on it with a ring of featherfall and fling yourself as far as the catapault can throw you. All you have to do is get within 5ft of the creature.


Literally, it says it requires "contact with the ground" not "contact with something that has contact with the ground", so I thought walls and ceilings are not tremorsense-able. Your GM may vary.

Liberty's Edge

I suppose you could always use a form of "vibrational" camouflage and throw hand fulls of marbles as you move around to give a sort of sensory "chaff" for the creature with tremor sense to "see" through.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Check this out.

Liberty's Edge

Quandary wrote:
Literally, it says it requires "contact with the ground" not "contact with something that has contact with the ground", so I thought walls and ceilings are not tremorsense-able. Your GM may vary.

My bad, I was automatically assuming that you were talking about a cave like setting for some reason... probably because it is very late and I was thinking about a cave!... In a normal structure, you are right, the tremor sense should only apply to the floor. In a cave/tunnel what have you, that is all carved from one solid mass, and should be omni directional.


Fomsie wrote:
No interpretation needed... a deaf person will not hear a rock drop, but they will still feel the vibrations. The in game definitions are clear, technicalities are for when people are trying to get around rules.

Does that mean that if you are deaf, you are immune to sonic damage?


Dabbler wrote:
Fomsie wrote:
No interpretation needed... a deaf person will not hear a rock drop, but they will still feel the vibrations. The in game definitions are clear, technicalities are for when people are trying to get around rules.
Does that mean that if you are deaf, you are immune to sonic damage?

Depending on the spell, yes, actually. At least that's how it worked in 3.5.

Also, as for fooling tremorsense, if your game is open to 3.5, taking the Darkstalker feat will at least force enemies to have to look for you; no more auto-sensing for them.

Also, I know it's not a huge worry for the OP, Conceal Scent might be something to look into if you're looking for a non-magical way to bypass scent.


Actually I am not sure that being deaf has ever shielded you from sonic damage, but silence prevents it. Being deaf, you can still feel vibrations and "hear" using that process (Beethoven famously did so). Deafness is merely the non-function of the ears, just as blindness is the non-functioning of the eyes, but darkness is the removal of light.

In short, silence suppresses vibrations. I have no problem with it having no effect on tremorsense, I feel that is more than appropriate and can be explained as it only damping vibrations in a fluid medium. I am just pointing out that while it may not rely on ears, tremorsense is basically hearing but through a solid medium, so I equally have no issues with a GM ruling that silence can mask you from tremorsense just as easily as it can from echo-location.


Quandary wrote:
Literally, it says it requires "contact with the ground" not "contact with something that has contact with the ground", so I thought walls and ceilings are not tremorsense-able. Your GM may vary.

It requires contact with the ground to function. But it does not state that you only detect things on the ground.

So standing on the ground could allow you to sense something walking on a wall or a ceiling per RAW.

Edit: Scratch all that. I'm completely wrong. Things can only be detected if they are in contact with the ground.

Apologies.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Somebody did already link the Boots of the Soft Step, right?

Silver Crusade

I believe somebody mentioned them and they are linked in the first post of the thread you linked me to.

Thanks for all the ideas. I'll have to review them with my GM, assuming he doesn't see the thread, and decide which will work best for me.


Walk without rhythm.

Silver Crusade

I'm going to ask my GM if I can roll a bluf check every time I move to see if I can walk stiltingly to foll the creature with tremorsense. We haven't encountered any creatures with tremorsense yet, but I'm guessing that eventually we might. I'd rather not waste a lot of resources on the chance that we do.


If a silenced tree falls in the forest and there is nothing within 60 ft with tremorsense, does it still make a vibration?


Spell wise, you can add Air Walk and Floating Disk as "no-ground contact" movement spells.

If you have a generous GM, you could argue that the spell Feather Step could fool tremorsense, especially if combined with the Light Steps ninja ability.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Phantom Steed should work as well.

Silver Crusade

Cranky Dog wrote:

Spell wise, you can add Air Walk and Floating Disk as "no-ground contact" movement spells.

If you have a generous GM, you could argue that the spell Feather Step could fool tremorsense, especially if combined with the Light Steps ninja ability.

I'm of the opinion that the Light Steps class ability by itself should allow you to fool Tremorsense by itself, but it's not RAW that it does. I could also take the Unbound Steps master trick, but it requires a double move to work, so it's not going to help me get off sneak attacks.

Dark Archive

Rynjin wrote:
Dabbler wrote:
Because sound is vibrations. Vibrations in the ground are actually sound-waves travelling through it.

Sound is vibrations but not all vibrations are sound.

If I punch a deaf person they're still going to feel it.

Same principle.

The force of my movement translates from my body and travels as waves through the surface. They might also MAKE sound, but the vibrations themselves are not limited ONLY to sound. At least as far as I know.

Regardless, magic =/= physics.

If you put your head next to a speaker your jawbone vibrates, Except you do not normally hear thru your jawbone. You would feel it and not hear it.


Tell a sonic boom how it cant break windows cause windows are deaf...


remember that with Stealth and invisibility, even when your opponent has Tremorsense, you still have Total Concealment, they still lose their Dex Mods to AC, and you still have your Sneak Attack Damage. Temorsense isn't Blindsight.

[qutoe=Rynjin ] Anything that gets you off the ground.

Or gets them off the ground.


Graboids! Think movie/TV series Tremors for how they deal with beasties!


Mage Hand can absolutely ruin a tremorsense opponent haha :)


Nails wrote:
Walk without rhythm.

Linked that for you.

---

The feat Magic Trick lets you ride your own Floating Disk (Disk Rider). You need to UMD a wand to get the disk, but that gives you a way to avoid ground contact. With more ranks in Fly, you can get Spurn Gravity which improves this ability.

You can grab a flying mount like a Dire Bat. You can also get a Figurine of Wondrous Power (either the Ebony Fly or the Bronze Griffon). a Carpet of Flying, Wings of Flying, or Winged Boots.

Since the ninja ability Light Steps ignores any mechanical traps that use a location-based trigger, they clearly have no noise/vibrations that can be detected. So I think it can be used, but only if you only move. As soon as you do something else, you lert the tremor sensing critter.

You also mention scent. Grab some Deodorizing-Agent to block your scent for 1d3 hours.

/cevah


Rynjin wrote:

If I punch a deaf person they're still going to feel it.

I love this as an argument... There are so many ways to argue your point, and you went with punching deaf people... How very subtle of you ;)


Hey, I have always heard that handicap people want to be treated just klike normal people, so they get punched too!

(says a handicapped war vet, so dont flame me, its a joke!)

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Ways to fool tremorsense? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.