Is the Gang Up feat combinable with the Ranged Flank feat?


Rules Questions


My question is are these two feats Gang Up and Ranged Flank combinable, so that, as a result, you can be considered "flanking an opponent regardless of your position within 30 feet range (Ranged Flank) if at least two of your allies are threatening him/her (Gang Up)"?

Sovereign Court

No.

First off, Ranged Flank is a 3PP feat (might matter).

Second, what makes you think they would?

Gang Up wrote:
You are considered to be flanking an opponent if at least two of your allies are threatening that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.

Interestingly, only you get the benefits of flanking with Gang Up, not your gang-bros.

For example:

A 0 0
0 E A
0 Y 0

You get to flank the Enemy, but your Allies aren't in a position to do so themselves.

Ranged Flank wrote:
When attacking with ranged or thrown weapons from a distance of up to 30 feet, if the nearest adjacent space to your target is unoccupied and the opposite space is occupied by a threatening ally, you are considered flanking. Both you and your ally gain all the benefits of flanking, including +2 flanking bonus on attacks, rogues can sneak attack, etc.

.

B 0 0 0 0 0
A E 0 0 0 X
0 0 0 0 0 0
0 Z 0 Y 0 0

From either of the X,Y positions, you'd set up a ranged flank with the Ally A, B on the opposite of the Enemy. The ally would also get the flanking benefits (because the feat says so).

The Z position doesn't work however; no ally is in the right position to enable a Ranged Flank, and Gang Up only provides you with normal melee flanking.


Well, Ranged Flank is a 3rd party feat, only that publisher would be able to tell you for sure, but a cursory reading suggests they could interact.

A very strict reading would say that they don't interact based on Ranged Flank giving the bonus under specific circumstances, but I find that a little asinine, as Gang Up is intended to expand the normal circumstances that grant flanking. I would still require the "unoccupied space" however, as it seems to represent "the position that grants you flanking". (That is to say, I believe the RAI of the 3rd party feat is "When attacking with ranged or thrown weapons from a distance of up to 30 feet, if the nearest adjacent space to your target is unoccupied and the opposite space is occupied by a threatening ally, you are considered flanking as if you were occupying that space and threatening with a melee weapon." *my addition in italics)


What makes me think they would?

Well, since you quoted the RAW. "..., regardless of your actual positioning"
So gang up negates the prequisite of flanking: "Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent."

This is also a requirement for Ranged Flank: "...and the opposite space is occupied by a threatening ally"

That's what makes me think that actually Ranged Flank negates the melee requirement and Gang Up negates the opposite positioning requirement.


the_move wrote:

Well, since you quoted the RAW. "..., regardless of your actual positioning"

So gang up negates the prequisite of flanking: "Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent."

Not so much, friend.

To save the page-load time,

FAQ wrote:

Gang Up: Does this feat (page 161) allow you to flank a foe with ranged weapons?

The Gang Up feat allows you to count as flanking so long as two of your allies are threatening your opponent. The feat makes no mention of ranged attacks being included, and since flanking specifically refers to melee attacks, ranged attacks do not benefit from this feat. (JMB, 8/13/10)

—Jason Bulmahn, 08/13/10

Sovereign Court

Gang Up provides you flanking, which is ...

PRD wrote:

Flanking

When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.

... a bonus to melee attacks.

But for Ranged Flank, the requirement is NOT that you're already flanking someone:

Ranged Flank wrote:
if the nearest adjacent space to your target is unoccupied and the opposite space is occupied by a threatening ally

Ranged Flank doesn't require you to be flanking someone. That would be pointless. It requires you to be at least one (but no more than 5) spaces apart from the enemy.


This has been run dry in the following thread:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4gk?Gang-Up-with-ranged-weapons#1

The general consensus is Gang up DOES give flanking if 2+ allies are threatening. If you are using a Ranged Weapon you do NOT get the +2 attack bonus that you would with a Melee weapon, but you DO get your Sneak Attack damage.
I have never seen any "Official" Ruling on this.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
WinterwolfNW wrote:

This has been run dry in the following thread:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4gk?Gang-Up-with-ranged-weapons#1

The general consensus is Gang up DOES give flanking if 2+ allies are threatening. If you are using a Ranged Weapon you do NOT get the +2 attack bonus that you would with a Melee weapon, but you DO get your Sneak Attack damage.
I have never seen any "Official" Ruling on this.

You haven't? Ok, here you go;

Gang Up doesn't allow Rogues to ranged sneak attack

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Funny I'm not surprised this keeps coming up, I had counted it being referenced in a little over two thousand seven hundred threads.


CBDunkerson wrote:
WinterwolfNW wrote:

This has been run dry in the following thread:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4gk?Gang-Up-with-ranged-weapons#1

The general consensus is Gang up DOES give flanking if 2+ allies are threatening. If you are using a Ranged Weapon you do NOT get the +2 attack bonus that you would with a Melee weapon, but you DO get your Sneak Attack damage.
I have never seen any "Official" Ruling on this.

You haven't? Ok, here you go;

Gang Up doesn't allow Rogues to ranged sneak attack

Thank you, even though it opened up a whole new problem with allies using ranged weapons.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

WinterwolfNW wrote:

even though it opened up a whole new problem with allies using ranged weapons.

I struggle to understand what problems [confirming that you can't be or gain flanking with ranged attacks] could cause?

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Is the Gang Up feat combinable with the Ranged Flank feat? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.