Down with perception

[thejeff]

Coarthios wrote:

If there's one area that is pretty weak in Pathfinder, it is the skill system. And I blame it on the Gygaxian evolution of the game where skills didn't really come into play until they were an optional mechanic (non-weapon proficiencies) in AD&D 2nd Ed. The problem is they are too nebulous as is. The other problem is the emphasis of Pathfinder and D&D seems to be more combat heavy, with a heavy portion of its fans being into just dungeon crawling. Regardless, they are too broad:

Perform = Sing, Dance, play any instrument, give a speech, give an acting performance and possibly some kind of juggling or athletic display depending on your GM.

Except that Perform is actually an exception to the trend you're talking about. Perform for each of those is a separate skill.

[GM DarkLightHitomi]

I some cases I agree, in others I dont.

Also, I am a big supporter of GM fiat, requires a better GM to pull but the results are certainly worth it.

Craft, perform, proffession, these are groups of skills rather then individual skills. Personally I ignore the suggested lists for these and let players define them, the broader they define the skill, the more likely they can use it, but also the higher I'll make the DCs. Thus armorsmithing isnt used as much as blacksmithing, but when it is used the DCs are lower.

Perception should be one skill as it represents an awareness of ones surroundings. However, if they notice something, knowledge is needed to knoow what it means, however, knowledge will not ever make you notice things.

Look at the show Monk, he often notices things but doesn't understand their signifigance until later after aquiring knowledge. If you tried playing Monk by using knowledge in place of perception, half the cases would never get solved.

Thus if you are granting knowledge based on a perception check, then that could be the source of all your problems.

[Kaisoku]

Jiggy wrote:

I'd have gone with Search and Notice, myself. /shrug

Yep, I suggested this very thing back when Pathfinder was in prerelease (2008). Link to my post.

Break it into two skills with two different uses: the check to notice something reactively, and the check to look for something proactively.

Notice (Wis): Check tips you off that something is there. Opposed by Stealth/Sleight of Hand checks, or flat DC. If successful, you are aware that something is "there", however you do not know specifics or pinpoint location.
A successful Notice check allows you to act in a surprise round.
This means you get a turn and won't be flatfooted, but you might not pinpoint anyone if they are still hidden. Basically use the "find an invisible opponent rules", you know he's there, but just not exactly where and 50% miss chance even if you do swing at their square. See Search below.

Search (Int): Check grants specific details. Opposed by Stealth/Sleight of Hand checks, or flat DC. If successful, you have all details based on the senses at your disposal.
Proactive skill, must be done on your turn, action required depends on how much searching you are doing/how many senses you are using. Free action gets you visual info, enough to find a Stealth using opponent. Standard action gives you enough for a 5'x5'x10' area of all your senses that can reach that area (sight, touch, smell, hearing). Full round action grants 10'x10'x10' area (so searching a whole room = however many rounds it takes to cover that area). Sift spell becomes useful (both due to ranged and due to time).

I suspect this would also make Stealth work a little better when it comes to the corner cases, and make a Stealthy character just that little bit more powerful.

.

That's how I'd do it.

And while I'm at it, make an Athletics skill. Move jumping into it with Climb, and make it Str-based. Keep Balance and Tumble Dex-based in Acrobatics.

Then give Fighters 4 skillpoints per level, and add Athletics and Notice as class skills.

I have my own ideas of how to fix the Rogue's issue in skills, but I digress...