Spells / Feats for a Debuff / Save-or-Die Sorcerer?

[Reinhardt]

So, I've decided to have my Sorcerer specialize in the aforementioned spell-types. What spells of these types are most effective/you would recommend learning?

Also, what feats should I be taking? I am at a total loss as to what feats a Sorcerer should take, having only played melee up until this point.

Thanks for your help! ^_^

[Reynard_the_fox]

If you really want to be focused around debuffs and save-or-dies, you might want to consider a witch - with Evil Eye and Misfortune hexes, they were practically made to debuff.

That being said, raising your save DCs is generally a matter of the following:
-Maxing out your Cha as high as you can possibly get it
-Bloodlines like Fey that increase your DCs
-The Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus feats. You should try to make sure your debuffs are all from the same school to benefit from these feats.
-Metamagic such as Heighten Spell and Persistent Spell, as well as the ultimate: Spell Perfection

Other good feats include Improved Initiative, Improved Familiar (for Arcane bloodline or Tattooed sorcerers), Toughness, and Combat Casting.

You'll want to make sure that you can always target the foe's weakest save, whether it's will, fortitude, or constitution; use Knowledge checks to figure out what to go for. Enchantment is known for its save-or-lose spells, but almost all of them target Will and many are ineffective against mindless foes. Transmutation has some nice things like Slow and Baleful Polymorph. Necromancy has LOTS of nasty spells, including the ultimate debuff, Enervation. Conjuration has a lot of useful spells like Glitterdust and Stinking Cloud that can hit multiple foes, and often dodges spell resistance. Really it comes down to your preference. Whatever you choose, though, you shouldn't have more than 1/3 of your spells known be debuffs - pick a few favorites and use your other spells known for important spells like Dispel Magic and Overland Flight.

An option to consider is a Halfling with the Halfling Jinx ability. You can weaken an enemy's saves by 1 if they fail a will save, which is nice... and if you pick up Bolster Jinx and any of the save-improving feats, you can reduce them by 3 instead! Sluggish Jinx, Distant Jinx, Area Jinx, and Jinxed Spell can all improve your jinxing ability as well.

Good luck with your debuffer!

[keerawa]

Boost your Charisma as much as possible.

To max your DC's, use Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in the school you are using. Fey would be helpful for some flavors, although I personally prefer Conjuration for debuffing, battlefield control and status effects, since it ignores Spell Resistance.

Make sure that you prepare spells that will use all 3 types of saves, and make sure someone in your party has enough points in the knowledges (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Nature, Planes, Religion) for identifying enemy weaknesses so that you can tell which to use.

I would recommend a lesser Persistent rod when you can afford it.

Also, keep in mind that buff spells are a fantastic option. Haste is often the most powerful spell you can cast!

[Reinhardt]

Thank you all, this has been immensely helpful. C=

[Falcar]

Persistant spell is decent to make them ave twice and take the lower. otherwise as others have said boost the DC lower their saves and target their weakness. Icy Prison is a nice spell as its a save or lose that targets reflex and the pit spells too, while these can both be escaped it temporarily knocks an opponent out of a fight. Fort and will have plenty of SOD spells but reflex can be tougher.

[soupturtle]

Persistent isn't just 'nice', it's absolutely incredible. The effect tends to be roughly equivalent to a +4 to the DC, so it's much more powerful than heighten. I would get the feat for sure, as well as a rod or two when/if you can afford it. I would also take the arcane bloodline, which adds another +1 to the DC for any spell you use metamagic on. With that, casting a 'max level-2' spell with persistent will be generally even more effective than casting a 'max level' spell from a school you have spell focus and greater spell focus in.

As for spell schools, I would probably pick two schools to get spell focus in rather than go all in on one school, especially since you need to be able to target all three saves, and that's pretty much impossible to do with a single school. Pretty much all of the enchantment school is good for targeting will, but don't rely too much on it as it tends to be a bit situational which enemies you can affect with it. Necromancy has lots of good fort-targeting options and nice debuffs, conjuration has lots of ref-targeting that doubles as battlefield control, as well as some fort-targeting. Illusion has some good options at low levels, while transmutation has two of my favorite SoS spells (slow and baleful polymorph) but not much else for your playstyle. Evocation has the best reflex targeting spell in icy prison, as well as nice multi-target damage + effect spells like ice storm or scirocco.

There is also the option of going for dazing spell as a major trick. This gives the opportunity to make your own killer save-or-suck spells out of anything that does damage, with the best part being that it's really easy to find spells that target different saves with it, as it gives the save the original spell gave, or reflex if it was a no-save spell. And there's lots of spells around that do damage with a save for some extra effect, so it's easy to target any save with just evocation alone. Drawback is that dazing takes three spell levels, so in general your DCs will be lower and it will take w ahile to get going.

[XMorsX]

A Kitsune Sorcerer with the Fey bloodline is a hell 0f a save-or-suck sorcerer.

Here is the feat progression by a similar character made by Wiggz.

1st - Eschew Materials
1st - Realistic Likeness
3rd - Spell Focus: Enchantment
5th - Spell Focus: Necromancy or Extend Spell
7th - Silent Spell*
7th - Threnodic Spell or Coaxing Spell
9th - Improved Familiar (Faerie Dragon)
11th - Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
13th - Quicken Spell*
13th - Spell Penetration
15th - Spell Perfection: Dominate Person
17th - Greater Spell Penetration
19th - Improved Initiative*
19th - Heighten or Persistent Spell

Persisitent Spell is especially great for such builds.

An alternative is a Gnome focusing on illusions with Effortless trickery.

[andreww]

Persistent comes way too late in that build. You want it by about level 7 or 9. Definately by 9 for Persistent Suggestion at 10 or Persistent Charm Monster/Confusion at 12.

Threnodic can be covered by taking Command Undead as a level 2 spell know. Unintelligent Undead dont even get a save. Coaxing isnt really needed as Oozes are not generally very dangerous and should be easily dealt with by one of your other spells known.

I would do something like:

1st - Eschew Materials
1st - Noble Scion of War
3rd - Spell Focus: Enchantment
5th - Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)
7th - Persistent Spell
7th - Silent Spell
9th - Improved Familiar (Faerie Dragon)
11th - Spell Penetration
13th - Quicken Spell*
13th - Greater Spell Penetration
15th - Spell Perfection: Dominate Person/Charm Monster/Mass Suggestion
17th - Expanded Arcana
19th - Expanded Arcana
19th - Expanded Arcana

The last three are really just placeholders and could easily be more spell focus for a second preferred school, maybe evocation combined with Dazing spell or Conjuration with Augment Summons and Additional Summons.

Realistic Likeness can pretty much be replaced by Disguise Self as a spell known or a Hate of Disguise and doesnt look worth a feat.