Hi everyone!
I'm currently building a human sylvan sorcerer to be used in an upcoming campaign. I have been tempted to take the first level in lunar oracle, which would work well with my character concept and would allow me to use CHA as a modifier to both CA and Reflex (prophetic armor revelation). I know multiclassing is sub-optimal, specially with a caster class. Still, I think maybe this is not such a bad deal. I would gain:
· +2 CHA (I would not invest in DEX, so my initial CHA would go from 18 to 20).
· +3 CA and Reflex (initially I was planning on having DEX 15 and CHA 18, but if I multiclass I would have DEX 10 and CHA 20). Eventually the gain in CA and Reflex would be bigger, because I will invest heavily in improving my CHA anyway.
· 1st level oracle spells.
· Training in Diplomacy and Perception (two skills I plan to use intensively).
· +1 hp (8 instead of 6, but I wouldn't be able to add 1 hp because oracle would not be my favored class)
· Burning Hands in my list of spells known (blackened curse)
But, of course, I would lose:
· -2 to initiative (from DEX 15 to DEX 10).
· -4 to weapon attacks (blackened curse), although I'm not planning on using weapon attacks anyway, so this is ok.
· -1 level of sorcerer spell progression. This is what worries me the most.
Do you think it would be a terrible deal? My animal companion (from sylvan bloodline) would not be affected because I will have the boon companion feat no matter what. I like the idea (my character is from the shoanti moon clan), so if this is a little sub-optimal it's ok. But I've never played a sorcerer before and I don't want to fall in a trap that is too painful.
Thanks in advance for your help!
What does CA mean?
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IF your GM is building his encounters and campaign to suit the PC party, your build 'power' is irrelevant, and there are no 'traps'. If he's running canned adventures without modifications, and there's no other arcane blast-bot, the fact you'll be _two_ levels behind a wizard's spell-level access _might_ be a problem.
That's always the single greatest determinant; the GM's style. And a lot of GM's cater and adjust, but pretend they don't, like carnival rides don't have names like 'Padded Safety Belt!'. While other GM's throw softballs until they get mad, then break out the OwlBearLichHolders.
So, as always, talk to your GM.
Other factors: the loss of DEX might hinder your use of rays and other ranged touch attacks, as will the dipping in a non-full BAB class. But you'll adapt around that, I'd expect.
what kind of sorc do you want to be? and, have you considered maybe just switching to oracle? the lunar oracle has an animal companion option, and if you combine it with the aasimar favored class bonus its insanely effective. you'd have a completely different spell list, so depending on what you want to do that may be a limiting factor (though with blackened you could still do some blasting). just a thought.
@sarrah- CA = AC (armor class, not animal companion)
With CA I meant AC, yes, sorry about that.
I wouldn't mind playing an oracle, but there is going to be a Lore Oracle in the group already, so I prefer to be a full arcane caster instead (which is what the group is lacking).
My GM will run the Rise of the Runelords campaign, BTW. I doubt he is planning on adding any modifications, and there is no other arcane blast-bot in the party (the others will play a human Lore Oracle, a human Magus, a dwarf barbarian and an elf ninja).
hmmm... what is it that attracts you to sylvan sorc, just the animal companion? there are better bloodlines for a blaster (for sure) and you already have 3 melee characters in the party so an animal companion seems a bit unnecessary? if you're planning to be a 'blast-bot' you'd probably be best off focusing on that. dipping oracle is nice for your AC but you would be a full spell level behind a wizard... you wouldn't even get 2nd level spells until after the magus, and you'd get 3rd level spells at the same time...
edit: just to put it in perspective, for that same 1 spell level difference you could make a trapper ranger 1/wizard 1/eldritch knight- you'd have way more hp, almost double the BAB, trapfinding, and some bonus combat feats (which you could invest in archery since that's not covered in your party now, and it would give you a viable option for enemies resistant to your magic or chumps not worth wasting spells on)
AC and reflex bonus and not having to invest in DEX (which would allow me to improve my initial CHA), mainly. Skills and some low level additional spells don't hurt.
It's also because I like the concept, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice too much. That's why I wonder if losing one level of sorcerer spell progression hurts a lot or just a little bit.
(Thanks a lot everyone for your answers, by the way).
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You are better off skipping oracle and focusing on non-ac defenses. Mirror Image, Blur, Blink, and so on. sorcerers have slow spell progression anyway, you don't want to delay it further with multiclassing.
Burning hands as an oracle spell known is useless for your sorcerer level, because it will always be CL1. Oracle Burning hands is a divine spell that must be cast using Oracle slots. To Cast Burning hands as a Sorcerer, you would need to learn it as a sorcerer.
Other factors: the loss of DEX might hinder your use of rays and other ranged touch attacks, as will the dipping in a non-full BAB class. But you'll adapt around that, I'd expect.
Not only will the loss of DEX hurt ray spells and other ranged attacks (touch or other), but the wording of the curse is -4 penalty on "weapon attack rolls". If "ray" counts as a weapon for things like weapon focus, I think it's a fair argument to say that it counts as a weapon for the Blackened Oracle Curse. That may be up to GM interpretation so YMMV. But, that could pretty much destroy a great deal of your versatility in any kind of offensive spell selection (you'd be looking at -6 on those types of rolls compared to your non-dip version).
Now, if the plan was to not do much (or anything) with rays or (certain) ranged touch attack spells, then that won't impact you.
It's arguable the -4 to weapon attacks from Blackened is not intended to affect spellcasting, given that Blackened _includes_ Scorching Ray.
If a guy at my table dipped out of Sorceror for flavor, and wound up two levels delayed for spells, I would not also apply a -4 to his ray spell 'to hit' rolls.
Imbicatus, thanks for an interesting tip! However, even if I'm really into Arshea's follower's endeavor to achieve sexual release daily, it doesn't fit with my character concept at all (Shoanti lunar clan member, chosen by the spirits of the tribe's ancestors).
And I think my DM would agree that blackened curse's -4 to weapon attack rolls does not afect spells, so that's not an issue. Reduced DEX might be, though. To be honest, I haven't really thought about the spells I'm going to pick down the road, so I don't know how good are ranged attack spells as future options.
nate lange, I had missed your answer. I'm not planning on being a blaster necessarily. I haven't yet decided what my selection of spells will be once I advance in the sorcerer class, actually. I just wanted to be an arcane full caster, because I felt that would fit best with the rest of the party. Animal companion attracts me because I think it's cool, though we are indeed quite served with melee characters as it is.
Regarding your suggested build, I like it but it would imply completely changing my character concept. Do you think having trapfinder is a must, or regular disable device from the ninja + dispel magic could do the trick?
i'm not familiar with the AP but i would guess that it isn't really necessary (though it might be helpful). and that build wasn't intended so much as a suggestion for you as it was a demonstration of what you could gain in exchange for being a full spell level behind (by comparison, you don't seem to be gaining very much for your delay)
Mechanically its a huge disadvantage. I would advise against it unless you need it for flavor and roleplay reasons. Nothing you gain mechanically is worth it. That being said, the game is a lot more fun if you feel this gives your character depth. Also, with the Ultimate Campaign rules you can retrain the class level later if you end up regretting it.
That's exactly what I wanted to know, thank you very much.