Overhand Chop Damage Bonus


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

From the Two-Handed Fighter archetype for the Fighter (APG):

APG wrote:


Overhand Chop (Ex): At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls. This ability replaces armor training 1.

As written, this seems to imply that the fighter gains a total of 3.5 times their Strength bonus to damage rolls. It is not stated to replace the regular bonus, but to add instead.

On the other hand, increasing the bonus by 2x seems to be incredibly overpowered, especially with the 7th level ability that allows this for all attacks in a full attack. A post here by Mark Moreland says that the intent is to only allow for 2x Strength bonus, replacing rather than adding to the regular bonus.

I don't think the current wording supports the intent, and creates confusion. If it shouldn't add, I think that should be made more clear.
Can we get this FAQ'd?


PRD wrote:
Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon, including a sling. (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only half the character's Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive 1–1/2 times the Strength bonus.

Overhand Chop says 2x. Normally it is 1.5x. If they meant the 2x was on top of the 1.5x they would have explicitly stated so. As written a Two-handed Fighter just gets a slightly better damage bonus than any other character.

The current wording clearly states intent. Do you really think the devs intended the damage bonus to be 3.5? It would be a pretty unusual multiplier. And every barbarian in the game would seriously consider taking 3 levels of Two-handed Fighter just to get that amazing bonus......

Sczarni

Do people not know there is a "Search" function on this website?

It's x2 damage. Not x2.5, or x3, or x3.5, or whatever other crazy math ppl want to keep coming up with. It's just x2.

If you adamantly want to argue this, read any of the other dozens of similar threads out there. I found 8 pages just by typing in "overhand chop".


Level three fighter bad level. Thog not take.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies

Overhand Chop adds +0.5 STR.


Braingamer wrote:

From the Two-Handed Fighter archetype for the Fighter (APG):

APG wrote:


Overhand Chop (Ex): At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls. This ability replaces armor training 1.

As written, this seems to imply that the fighter gains a total of 3.5 times their Strength bonus to damage rolls. It is not stated to replace the regular bonus, but to add instead.

On the other hand, increasing the bonus by 2x seems to be incredibly overpowered, especially with the 7th level ability that allows this for all attacks in a full attack. A post here by Mark Moreland says that the intent is to only allow for 2x Strength bonus, replacing rather than adding to the regular bonus.

I don't think the current wording supports the intent, and creates confusion. If it shouldn't add, I think that should be made more clear.
Can we get this FAQ'd?

1. As a note, I think the wording supports the intent although it is not explicitly clear.

2. As a second note, as I understand it, the staff looks for well worded questions to actually be made into FAQs.

Does the two-handed fighter ability "overhand chop" allow the fighter to add 2x the character's strength bonus in addition to the normal 1.5x the character's strength bonus or in place of 1.5x bonus?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The intent is clearly for x2 Strength bonus instead of x1.5, as usual. If it meant x3.5 as suggested, it would say "add an additional..." or something along those lines.

I don't think the language is unclear at all. You have to work a lot harder to read the ambiguity than you do to read the intended meaning.

Sczarni

fretgod99 wrote:

The intent is clearly for x2 Strength bonus instead of x1.5, as usual. If it meant x3.5 as suggested, it would say "add an additional..." or something along those lines.

I don't think the language is unclear at all. You have to work a lot harder to read the ambiguity than you do to read the intended meaning.

I agree with this statement.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sissyl wrote:
Level three fighter bad level. Thog not take.

Hey, a lot of my friends are 3rd level fighters! D:<

Also Braingamer, the 7th level ability Backswing does not give you the double Strength modifier to damage on EVERY hit. You either get the effects of Overhand Chop or Backswing, not both. Overhand Chop, as the description says above, is only when you make a single attack, via the attack action or a charge. Backswing gives you multiple attacks with the double Strength modifier to damage, but only AFTER the first attack in your full attack chain.

Sczarni

I love Order of the Stick <3

Grand Lodge

I have a two handed fighter that just reached third level and was wondering about this as well. Let me use him as an example based on what we've established.

His strength is 20 so a +5 damage bonus (+7 for a two-handed weapon).

At level 3 with overhand chop his damage bonus would be +10 correct? He would no longer get the 1.5x bonus for using a two-handed weapon.

Sczarni

Yes. +5 x 2 = +10.

Grand Lodge

Nefreet wrote:
Yes. +5 x 2 = +10.

Lol thanks.


Nefreet wrote:

Do people not know there is a "Search" function on this website?

It's x2 damage. Not x2.5, or x3, or x3.5, or whatever other crazy math ppl want to keep coming up with. It's just x2.

If you adamantly want to argue this, read any of the other dozens of similar threads out there. I found 8 pages just by typing in "overhand chop".

I posted this because a player in my group was arguing it should be additive. I fully understand the intent is for it not to add - I found Jason Nelson's post regarding that, Mark Moreland's as linked above, and the other threads you found too. Getting a bonus of 2x Str for damage would be ridiculous. There is no way you could justify that as anything but a capstone (and maybe not even then).

The basis of his argument was that it didn't look like same-type bonuses, but rather an untyped bonus of a value equal to double your strength bonus. I think that if that was the intent, the language would have been something like 'add a bonus equal to double your strength modifier'
Anyhow, I figured that if it came up in my group, it may have come up with other groups too.

The Thing from Beyond the Edge wrote:

1. As a note, I think the wording supports the intent although it is not explicitly clear.

2. As a second note, as I understand it, the staff looks for well worded questions to actually be made into FAQs.
Does the two-handed fighter ability "overhand chop" allow the fighter to add 2x the character's strength bonus in addition to the normal 1.5x the character's strength bonus or in place of 1.5x bonus?

1. I personally thought it was clear enough too (could be better), but my player was able to argue it (between sessions of course) for a good hour.

2. Fair enough. I'm not that great at putting the ideas in my head into words. I see what you mean about the clearer question, and I'll keep it in mind.

Ashram wrote:
Also Braingamer, the 7th level ability Backswing does not give you the double Strength modifier to damage on EVERY hit. You either get the effects of Overhand Chop or Backswing, not both. Overhand Chop, as the description says above, is only when you make a single attack, via the attack action or a charge. Backswing gives you multiple attacks with the double Strength modifier to damage, but only AFTER the first attack in your full attack chain.

Yes, I understand that as well. I probably should have written 'almost all attacks', my bad.


This subject was discussed at length in this thread. Happy reading!

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