Chwal


Round 2: Create a Bestiary entry

RPG Superstar 2014 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7 aka Belladonna Blue

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Ethereal hoof beats echo seemingly from mid-air, reverberating all around. The area is pervaded with the scent of blood and horse sweat and a feeling of crazed malevolence.
Chwal CR 4
XP 600
NE Large undead (incorporeal)
Init +8; Senses darkvision 60 ft; Perception +11
Aura unnatural aura (30 ft.)
----- Defense -----
AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 11 (+4 Dexterity, -1 size, +2 deflection)
hp 32 (5d8+10)
Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +7
Defensive Abilities incorporeal, natural invisibility; Immune undead traits;

----- Offense -----
[b]Speed
fly 50 ft. (good)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks frenzy mount, frightener

----- Statistics -----
Str --, Dex 18, Con --, Int 3, Wis 17, Cha 15
Base Atk +3; CMB +6; CMD 20
Feats Alertness, Improved Initiative, Ability Focus (frenzy mount)
Skills Fly +9, Perception +11, Sense Motive +9

----- Ecology -----
Environment any urban
Organization solitary
Treasure none

----- Special Abilities -----
Frenzy Mount (Su) Once per round, a chwal may touch the mind of an animal mount and incite a raging frenzy. This ability is similar to the dominate animal spell (caster level 5th), except it may only target mounts and only initiates commands to attack, buck or destroy surroundings. A rider whose mount is also an animal companion can regain control of the animal's actions for one round with a successful DC 20 Ride check. A check to control the mount must be made every round until the effect ends or the rider is dismounted. To use this ability, the chwal must be within 40 ft. The target can resist this compulsion with a successful DC 15 Will save (DC 10 if the target is not a horse). A mount that successfully saves is immune to that same chwal's frenzy mount for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Frightener (Su) Once per minute as a standard action, a chwal can temporarily drop its natural invisibility, revealing itself to be a spectral white war horse with smoldering red eyes. All creatures within 30 feet when a chwal uses this ability must make a DC 10 Will save to avoid becoming frightened for 1d4 rounds. The chwal then resumes its invisibility at the end of its turn as a free action. A creature that successfully saves is immune to the fear effect of that chwal for 24 hours. If the chwal's natural invisibility is negated via other methods, it cannot use this ability. Likewise, those that can see invisible creatures are immune to this special attack. This is a mind-affecting fear effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.

A chwal is the incorporeal spirit of a war horse killed in battle. Its powerful bond to its rider kept it from peaceful respite, and it now wanders roads and cities seeing loyal mounts serving as it once did. Existence as an invisible shade has rendered it more cunning, but driven it mad in the process and resentful of its once-inviolate bond. Called "The Horse That Rides" by Lastwall cavaliers who had lost their beloved mounts only to have their replacements tormented by their former companions, these once-proud steeds exist only to destroy riders through their trusted mount.

The chwal always attacks through an animal controlled through its frenzy mount ability as it has no other method of attack. It becomes enraged if the mount it controls fails to kill its rider, however, and will use its frightener ability at that point. It will use its frenzy mount ability again if it can, but if there are no remaining valid targets, it will attempt to flee in search of new quarry.

Goblinworks Lead Game Designer

Hi Victoria, I'm Lee Hammock, the lead game designer on Pathfinder Online. Before that I did lots of d20 freelance work, but I'm probably going to be leaving mechanics to the more up to date judges and concentrating on story, overall balance, and how I could see using them in a game.

Neat idea for the backstory, but to me it just seems odd a really well loved horse becomes undead just because it died and it's master didn't. If the master betrayed it, left it to die, etc, that I could see. But without some sort of wrong committed against it, it just seems like a petulant undead horse rather than a revenge driven undead horse. That said, I love the combat dynamic. Incredibly specific yes, but used in the right situations this thing could be horror movie terrifying. I do wish it had some more direct means to harm aside from frenzying horses, but it's probably fine for it's level range. I could definitely see one of these terrorizing the countryside, bane of farmer and cavalryman alike.

I'm listing this one as a Should Vote For.

Webstore Gninja Minion , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Hi Victoria! I'll be one of the judges for this round, and I'll be looking at a couple of key points for your creature: flavor, GM usability, and how well it fits into the world of Golarion. For some background, I helped found the Wayfinder fanzine before I started working for Paizo, and these are all points that I took into consideration when selecting articles for the magazine. In addition, I oversee every third-party Pathfinder Roleplaying Game product that makes its way onto Paizo.com.

Flavor
A more animal-focused undead creature...I like it! This fills an interesting niche in the undead world, as we have a plethora of undead humanoids to choose from, and very much touches on the "undead familiar" idea that I fondly remember from the Ravenloft setting years ago. I do appreciate the fact that the mechanics do not limit it to a particular *type* of mount--only the description does, and can easily be used for atypical mounts in other regions.

GM Usability
I'm always hesitant to use creatures with natural invisibility, particularly if the party has no means of detecting it. Its abilties feel a little *too* specific, but I don't think it hurts the creature's overall design. I can see somebody using the "target must be a mount" as a point of contention in-game, though--is it still a mount if the rider isn't on it?

Setting
I really like the ties to Lastwall, and its origins as fallen animal companions and bonded mounts...but what draws it to more populous areas? The link to urban areas feels a little weak.

Final Thoughts
Not too flashy a creature, but that's not a bad thing--it fills a particular role and does it well. I do recommend this monster for advancement.

Paizo Employee Developer , Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

Congrats on making it to this round! May you have the luck and talent to push all the way through to the end!

”How I Judged These Monsters”:

When I develop a monster for the Adventure Path bestiaries, I print out the monster entry, and then go through it in a quick pass, marking up the page with notes and highlighting any problems that I need to address later when I really dig into it. Much of the time I’m circling things in the stat block or flavor text and leaving a quick note. Most often, this quick note pass is performed while I’m writing out art orders for the monsters so I can make sure that the description I give to the artist is what the final monster will be. This is where I make note of any changes I plan to make (some of which I’m sure frustrate some of my freelancers from time to time).

I’m going to judge this round in a similar manner to how I’d treat a monster I ordered from a freelancer if I asked one of my freelancers to just send me something within the same parameters that you’ve been given. My review isn’t anything personal, and since tone is difficult to communicate online sometimes, imagine my comments and critiques read in a friendly and nudging way. To heighten the experience, imagine my comments on your monster written in purple ink. :)

The blue italicized first line in my review was my gut reaction from reading the name with no context whatsoever. It was a fun guessing game I was playing while reviewing the monsters, so I included that note for everyone’s enjoyment. (Spoiler Alert: I was wrong a lot.)

And now to the monster!

I don’t know what to expect with this name. I don’t even know how to say it.

Nice descriptive line.
Your XP doesn’t match your CR. The XP is for a CR 2 creature, but your monster certainly looks CR 4.
AC and hit points are low for a CR 4 creature.
Alphabetize the AC breakdown and feats (alphabetize almost everything).
Frenzy mount is an interesting ability, but it doesn’t list what kind of action it takes to use it, only that it can do it once per round. Standard is assumed, but in that case it could only be used once a round anyway. You call out an exception for animal companions, but what about a paladin’s mount?
The DCs for both special abilities aren’t calculated correctly.
This is a cool idea. I like the non-humanoid undead. I like the ghostly war mount idea, and I like that its thing is spooking horses. Its ties to Lastwall seem good. I don’t see this as a deeply urban creature, but I can certainly see it roaming villages.I like the core idea of this creature, but it’s a bit sloppy. Keep an eye on that stuff moving forward.
This would take some time to develop for print. Regardless, I’m interested in what else you have up your sleeve.

I do recommend chwal for advancement.

Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9

Congratulations Victoria,

I am trying to keep reviews simple to get through them quickly.
Creative: a warhorse ghost? Yes, Nice Ichabod potential.
Fun to GM: No. an encounter with this is mostly the rider vs his mount.
Golarion Tie: OK, but mounts must surely exist in more.
Vote: Not yet, but we'll see :)
Good luck!


It took me some time to guess possible source of the name...

Spoiler:
If I am guessing correctly it's cwał - read as cvaw or tzvaw.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Hmm, to me it reads like "cheval"...


Drejk wrote:

It took me some time to guess possible source of the name...

** spoiler omitted **

Good catch, Drejk! (Edit: You too, Pedro.) The only chwal I found was an Indian term for a tenement building, which evoked some cool ideas for an undead of that name which was way off from what this actually is.

So I didn't have a lot of time for item reviewing this weekend, so I'll do monsters instead. First I'll look at how the monster's basic rundown fits the monster creation table, then general theme and abilities.

= Monster meets the target statistics for its CR
+ Monster exceeds the target stats for its CR
++ Monster greatly exceeds target stats for its CR
- Monster's stats do not meet target stats for its CR
-- Monster's stats are greatly below target stats for its CR

hp: -
AC: -
High/low atk: n/a
Primary Ability DC: =
Secondary Ability DC: =
Good save: =
Poor save: =/+

Adam already addressed the formatting issues, so we'll move on. I think you've found a solid niche with this creature. There's a lot of room to play with this undead beastie and develop scenarios for its use. Its low hp and armor class are offset by its incorporeal state and natural invisibility, so they aren't an issue for me. The Golarion tie-in seems solid enough.

Frenzy Mount: I wish you'd developed this a bit more, because it is the chwal's primary (one could say only) attack. There's a lot to be said for this ability, because it's sneaky and gets under PC defenses in a way that should scare them and evoke some seminal emotional response from a character by turning a loyal mount into an enemy. I feel like you may have dialed it down too much with the limitations against non-horses and only having it attack mounts. (Actually, this brings up a question of why only horses come back as chwals. Seems that the idea of a vengeful spirit returning in this fashion should be more open to the options available in a fantasy campaign setting.) Also, a penalty to the saving throw to the new mount of the chwal's former companion would have been in keeping with the flavor of the monster, and the lower DC for non-horses just seems to hamstring the ability. Since the only difference between a regular animal and a mount is where the humanoid is positioned, this seems like overreaching to reign in what should be a supremely effective ability.

Frightener: A solid secondary ability, though in keeping with the fear effect, I don't think the appearance should be so clean. The chwal should still bear the wounds that killed it, to heighten that idea of the terror of its appearance.

Victoria, while your execution is a bit shaky, the creativity of your idea is terrific and gets my vote this round, as I'm greatly interested to see where that creativity takes you in the next round.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka DankeSean

On the one hand the niche-ness of this monster doesn't thrill me (only offers a threat to a mounted party), while at the same time I love that you've taken the risk of going niche and this is a massively original monster idea. Statistically, things seem solid enough (and that which isn't has been called out already) that I don't have any issues. I'm not sure where I stand; I love the idea presented, but not sure if it's something I'd ever get use out of in a game.

The Exchange

I like the creature because it will create interesting encounters. However, as far as flavor goes, I don't see how this is any different than just a ghost horse (a horse with the ghost template).

Still, I will vote for this. Mostly because I found a use for it in my home game, which suggests this is a good, useful monsters.

Hope to see you make it to the next round :)

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

I was mentally prepared to dislike this when my eyes wandered across natural invisibility and incorporeal. I finished reading, and I was very impressed.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka theheadkase

Chwal...an odd name that kind of rolls off the tongue. Let's see it!

Ok, pretty good intro. Drop the "seemingly" and you've got a great intro.

Large undead incorporeal!

Ok, I want to love this but it is most definitely NOT urban. I would see this in an army encampment. Or in a barracks area. Speaking of seeing...how do we every see it unless it uses its Frightener ability?

This should be a haunt or hazard.

Overall it is cool...but just doesn't fit the round. Weak reject and at this point I don't foresee having any extra votes.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 , Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Mark D Griffin

I think this guy is just too niche for me. Any kind of attack it could use when there aren't any mounts would help a little, but I have too many stronger keeps at this point.

Grand Lodge Marathon Voter Season 7

I really wish this guy had an attack other than a single, very specific, supernatural ability. This feels more like a haunt than a monster to me. That said, it'd be a really cool haunt. I really want to vote for this one, but I'm undecided at this point. If I do wind up voting for it, I'll be voting for the designer rather than the monster.

Best of luck!

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 9

I agree with a lot of the feedback. This is a very creative entry, but your mechanical use is as weak as your design is strong. We'll see if I have voting spots left, eh?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral

Chwal
The Good: A horse ghost is a nifty concept
The Bad: formatting errors at this level are just embarrassing.
The Ugly: Making my players fight their mount/animal companions would be taboo at my table.
Overall: 7/10 its cool but I have to weigh if this would ever see use. its on the bubble

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

I don't mind this being a niche monster. Horses aren't likely to possess the will or emotion to return as undead, so I would like to see a reference to the chwal as the spirit of an exceptionally faithful or traumatized steed or animal companion.

I think the concept has grand mojo, and the Lastwall tie is excellent.

I don't think it's remotely an urban monster, but that might be a matter of perspective. I suppose a horse also conjures thoughts of civilization, progress and urbanization. War camps can be the largest "city" for hundreds of miles. SO I urge you to be more careful if you advance, but I won't withhold a vote based on it not really being urban this time around.

I think it's important to note the chwal has great mojo and roleplay content. Well done there. Good luck in voting.

Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

Reminds me of the flensed unicorn in Matt Hewson's dripping-with-mood adventure The Tattered Unicorn in Midgard Tales. And yes, shades (!) of Ichabod Crane.

Apart from that, I'm not wowed hugely by this, but I do think the creativity is evident.

I'd like to see the two special abilities melded into one, for the chwal to be able to create an aura that unnerves all animal intelligence creatures...

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9

The chwal exudes imagination, and I like that the monster primarily targets something that doesn't always get targeted in combat. The abilities fit the creature's origins perfectly and are exactly what I'd expect from a restless undead horse. The Lastwall callout works nicely too.

I'm not convinced that this is an urban monster. It seems more appropriate for a battlefield (either recent or ancient) that the PCs pass through as they travel between locations.

Overall, I am considering a vote for the chwal, and I wish you luck in this round.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka JoelF847

Kudos on an interesting concept of the undead spirit mount targeting other mounts. Unfortunately, there's some issues with the execution I can't get past.

First, the frenzy mount ability causes targets to attack or buck, but there's no mechanics presented on what happens to a rider when their mount tries to buck them off. Surprisingly, the ride skill doesn't provide a DC for this, so you should in the ability description. You do say that if the target is an animal companion, the rider needs to make a DC 20 ride check to control their mount, but what if it's a regular old horse? Also, since the chwal is already pretty niche, why cripple the saving throw DC if the target mount isn't a horse. No reason it shouldn't be just as effective on camels, ponies, wolves, dogs, or triceratops even.

Also, both of your special abilities DCs seem off to me.

They should both have DC (10+ 1/2 HD + Cha) or 14, then frenzy mount would be 16 due to ability focus. Instead you put frenzy mount at 14 and frightener at 10. Also, you could use the feat for something else, and just say the chwal has a +2 racial bonus to the DC of frenzy mount.

I'm also left with the question of how does the chwal interact with potential undead riders? I can see a ghost loving one of these to ride, or a graveknight with a ghost touch saddle or something.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6 aka Transylvanian Tadpole

My current campaign has strong ties to Lastwall, plus a paladin and a ranger who are both likely to take horses as animal companions. So, thanks Victoria, this will definitely see some use with me!


This entry is strong on flavor, but I'm not sure what to make of the inconsistent DCs (as explained by Joel).

Other than that, this "The target can resist this compulsion with a successful DC 15 Will save", could/should be shortened and another sentence added with "This is a mind-affecting, enchantment (compulsion) effect." Good job calling that out though - important for the Devotion ability of animal companions.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7 aka Belladonna Blue

Hi all! I am over the moon that the chwal had enough support to see me into the Top 16. I want to thank everyone that commented, showed support and offered criticism. I've been given much to consider in designing the future round, and that's a good thing.

I will be all too happy to come back and comment here to clarify/address some concerns. (And admit mistakes -- I did a very last-minute reworking of the chwal and it suffered for it in the form of glaring rules errors, i.e., the XP and the wonky DCs.)

But, first, I am going to put my head down and finish my encounter to avoid any repeats of my cortisol-infused three-hours-to-submission panic, and after that I will all too gladly chatter and discuss for a few days until the reveal and ensuing bloodbath. :)

Though, one quick thing: About that name. Pedro was on the right track. "Chwal" is a Haitian Creole derivative of the French word "cheval," meaning "horse". In Vodou, chwal refers to "being ridden" by the loa spirits as people so possessed are called horses. So it was a bit of play on words. Also obscure and incorrect for the region, so I intended it to only be a working name and to spend the day before submission arguing with myself about the name. The last-minute restructuring eliminated any possibility of fussing about it, though, so we get the chwal.

Which is at least kinda fun to say. :)

Be back with more in a couple of days!

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7 aka Belladonna Blue

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Just in case anyone's curious, here's some more rundown on my design process here, now that I've had time for my brain to recharge. Just going to quote and answer here. Seems easier.

Jeff Lee wrote:

(Actually, this brings up a question of why only horses come back as chwals. Seems that the idea of a vengeful spirit returning in this fashion should be more open to the options available in a fantasy campaign setting.)

That came primarily out of a desire to tie it in best with Lastwall. By all means, there'd be no reason a GM couldn't adapt it to other types of mounts with some stat changes.

Jeff Lee wrote:
Frightener: A solid secondary ability, though in keeping with the fear effect, I don't think the appearance should be so clean.

Firmly agreed. Some wording changes should have been done to fit that description into the word count.

Sean McGowan wrote:
I'm not sure where I stand; I love the idea presented, but not sure if it's something I'd ever get use out of in a game.

Fair assessment. I've personally never been in a party where at least one dude didn't have a mount. At the very least, we always had a mule that kept watch for us since our Perception checks blew. But the use this has among different parties will vary, although I personally thought a chwal getting loose in a city stable or barracks could generate some interest...

theheadkase wrote:
Ok, I want to love this but it is most definitely NOT urban. I would see this in an army encampment. Or in a barracks area. Speaking of seeing...how do we every see it unless it uses its Frightener ability?

I'd consider war camps to be urban, in a manner of speaking. Temporary/nomadic settlements are still settlements. And barracks are usually found in or near cities, and citadels and fortresses are something I find urban as well. Granted, this is a "middle of bustling city" monster, but I'd found nothing to indicate that's ALL urban is.

As for seeing it, consider it a type of possessing spirit. It's not exactly meant to be seen, a la poltergeists or possession devils. The original incarnation I wrote actually used malevolence, but I deemed that too much to give out at this CR. I may have been wrong.

GMSolspiral wrote:
The Ugly: Making my players fight their mount/animal companions would be taboo at my table.

I get that. I figured there'd be GMs who just couldn't use this. Ibn my personal experience, my GMs have pretty consistently murdered party mounts with fireballs, getting carried off by rocs, or just generally making sure we couldn't go into a building and reasonably expect our mounts would be there when we got back. I stubbornly named and described my mounts, always, so I would have preferred to get something like this thrown at me instead. :)

Steven Helt wrote:
Horses aren't likely to possess the will or emotion to return as undead, so I would like to see a reference to the chwal as the spirit of an exceptionally faithful or traumatized steed or animal companion.

I went with the approach of the bond between horse and rider being too strong to let the spirit pass on correctly, and then being corrupted in undeath. I think the trauma/betrayal angle would have been much more cinematic, though.

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
... for the chwal to be able to create an aura that unnerves all animal intelligence creatures...

It does have unnatural aura. :) Or do you mean something more akin to an actual fear effect?

Joel Flank wrote:
First, the frenzy mount ability causes targets to attack or buck, but there's no mechanics presented on what happens to a rider when their mount tries to buck them off. Surprisingly, the ride skill doesn't provide a DC for this, so you should in the ability description.

The Ride skill does have a Stay in Saddle check for rearing mounts, but it's only a 5. I was pretty surprised at that low number and put in and took out Ride check rules for staying mounted a half dozen times, but in the end I left it as something for GMs to arbitrate. I'm not sure what is figuring into the Ride check DCs in the book, but from growing up around ranches and rodeos, the 5 to stay on a startled/rearing mount seemed far too low. But without knowing what was going into getting that number, I wasn't sure I was comfortable making something up.

I think I tried something like: Riders must make a successful Ride check (DC 5 + 5 for every round the chwal has controlled the mount. But I though the wording was pretty clunky and dropped it.

Joel Flank wrote:
Also, since the chwal is already pretty niche, why cripple the saving throw DC if the target mount isn't a horse. No reason it shouldn't be just as effective on camels, ponies, wolves, dogs, or triceratops even.

Agreed. I wanted to set it up that way, but I was concerned it was already too much, given that low-level PCs can often have the crap kicked out of them by their mounts. But this seems to not be nearly so much of a concern as I thought it would be and I needn't have reigned it in so aggressively. :)

Joel Flank wrote:
Also, both of your special abilities DCs seem off to me.

They are badly off and I spent a week kicking myself over it. When I decided to change the chwal away from a malevolence-ability-based version to this, it was three hours before deadline and some terrible mistakes were made as a result of the rush.

Lesson learned: even if you get cold feet at the last minute and think it desperately needs to be changed, commit anyway. I like this version better, I do think, but gah it suffered from being rushed.

Joel Flank wrote:
I'm also left with the question of how does the chwal interact with potential undead riders? I can see a ghost loving one of these to ride, or a graveknight with a ghost touch saddle or something.

That'd be super cool. I'd love to do a revised version of this to factor that in.

Joel Flank wrote:
You do say that if the target is an animal companion, the rider needs to make a DC 20 ride check to control their mount, but what if it's a regular old horse

Whoops, almost missed that one. So I wanted to give some kind of way for PCs heavily invested in their mounts (i.e., cavaliers) to reign in the chwal's influence a little, but regular, purchased mounts don't really have a chance. They are lacking the super-duper bond necessary to resist the chwal's vengeful hatred.

"Super-duper" is a technical term.

I hope I've answered all questions/concerns in one form or another, but just comment if there's something else I could clarify.

Thanks everyone who called me out for stuff -- I've learned something every round so far, and it is thanks to you guys!

For those of you using the chwal in your games or who just appreciated the flavor and niche design I went for and cast a vote for me, thank you very much, too, obviously. :) I can't adequately put into words how surprised/happy/warmed-to-the-cockles-of-my-heart I was to advance, so I would just like to convey the image of a small, content puppy curled up on warm hearthstone, snoozing before a roaring fire, still blissfully unaware that a spark has begun smoldering the tip of its tail because now it has an encounter it needs to turn in and a map to sort out.

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