So, what do people actually do with Simulacrum anyway?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I've read it, and I understand that it's cool to have a guy under your command, but is that really the extent of it?

Is it like a spell version of Leadership where I can create a spellcaster that can cast spells and do crazy things for me?

How do people generally abuse this spell? Do they make copies of themselves?

I'm considering a BBEG that does something similar to this, where they kill what they think is the BBEG, and it turns out it's just his Simulacrum.

Is there a way to enhance it so it has more than half the levels?


Well the best way to use Simulacrum is to use Blood Money + Wish duplicating Simulacrum to get free Simulacrums. You should be using Simulacrum to get unique abilities/SLAs off monsters, for example making a Simulacrum of an Efreet to get 3 Wishes per day per Simulacrum aka "Snowcone Wish machine". Though yes Simulacrums of yourself are good ideas to have around since they expand your Spells per day significantly and can help you with a variety of tasks.

Silver Crusade

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Monkerdoodle wrote:
So, what do people actually do with Simulacrum anyway?

Oh, I can think of some uses...


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Mikaze wrote:
Monkerdoodle wrote:
So, what do people actually do with Simulacrum anyway?
Oh, I can think of some uses...

Is it getting hot in here or is it just me?

Grand Lodge

lol oh my!

Silver Crusade

Because then you could get simulacra of yourself to turn on the fan, because it's so hot.

What?


Stuff like the succubus'...

Profane gift. Alternatively, a lilitu or Nocticula both provide higher stat bonuses with their profane gifts.

SLAs and other abilities that PCs can't normally access, in general.


You can make a simulacrum of other creatures. There was a thread I participated in a while ago about "a wizard taking over the world". There's only one wizard, and he needs staff, since he can only do one thing at a time and needs to sleep sometime. Staff can be turned against you. So you find the best people for the organization, regardless of alignment, personality, salary expectations, etc, and you make simulacra of them. "Half" of the world's best accountant is still a good accountant, so you now have a loyal and skill accountant. Do the same for any position where their direct power level isn't really important. You don't need to care about the Disguise check; so maybe your CFO is ugly and doesn't look like the original. Who cares?

Make copies of yourself. They're not powerful, but if they look like you they can take hits for you. Even entire assassination attempts. Plus they're loyal. They can get in touch with you via Sending. Note that if your Simulacra can cast Charm spells, you can have chains of servants.

There's no good rules about copying creatures that can cast Wish. Do they only cost half a Wish? Even worse, the spell requires money to balance, and that new spell Blood Money is very broken even without Simulacrum cheese.


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Simulacra are people too!


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Umbral Reaver wrote:
Simulacra are people too!

People made from ice and snow. I always wondered why creatures made from Simulacrum didn't have vulnerability to fire.


aceDiamond wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:
Simulacra are people too!
People made from ice and snow. I always wondered why creatures made from Simulacrum didn't have vulnerability to fire.

The original body before magic is made from ice and snow, the spell that holds it together fills in the rest with "shadow stuff". At least that's what it was previously, I'd have to read it again in PF. Kinda the same way that most of your body is made of water.


One high level mystic theurgist in my games (MT is the closest equivalent, she's a homebrew class that's I've had in many of my games since 2nd edition) has tons of simulacra of herself wandering the various planes of existence. They're her administrative and intelligence network. She's also got a really low bandwidth spell a la the sending spell to communicate with them periodically.

My normal ruling on simulacra is that while they'll follow your direct orders, they do have a will of their own when it isn't explicitly overridden and will gravitate towards doing what their original would do. Particularly strong willed originals with a legalistic bent will sometimes deliberately play with the letter/spirit of your orders so as to better accommodate their own desires and nature.

A few of these Elena-simulacrums, especially the ones that are at or beyond Elena's effective locus of control (some are totally incommunicado, others have an effective information bandwidth of like 200 or so words each way per year) are effectively independent agents with her approximate value system at the point of their creation.


Sno-Cone Wish factory... nuff said


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aceDiamond wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:
Simulacra are people too!
People made from ice and snow. I always wondered why creatures made from Simulacrum didn't have vulnerability to fire.

People made of the ice and snow, of the midnight sun, where the harsh winds blow...

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

even just replicating yourself can yield a lot of benefits...

finally earned a place as the king's adviser but still want to adventure?
leave a similacrum at the palace to advise in your absence.

have a bunch of items you want to craft but don't have the time?
put a similacrum to work (or take cooperative casting and put 2 simulacri on it)

tired of obeying action economy?
bring a couple of similacri with you to indiscriminately toss around lower level spells while you cast the spells you actually want to cast.

do it with a mystic theurge and it can heal/buff/debuff/control and even deal some damage...


Shock troops as well. Consider a Wizard making just 7th level versions of himself. Some enemies come to attack your castle, the 1 Simulacrum uses Dimension Door to bring a couple others with him and the 2 that traveled with take their standard action to fire off a couple scorching rays, or fireballs or lightning bolts, whatever is appropriate. Now imagine if you had 5 Simulacrums each bringing 2 other Simulacrums with them. At 7th level, a Simulacrum is capable of firing 2 Scorching Rays, so you're looking at 20 rays being flung about, each dealing 4d6 points of Fire damage.

I had the idea for a Wizard Kingdom that used Simulacrum Clones as a method of defense. Hidden inside a Personal Demi-Plane, if the kingdom were ever attacked (like say an army) you might see an army of such Simulacrums appearing and tossing out Fireballs into the approaching army.

Encounter over, Kingodm wins.

Or you could do something like give them all a scroll (or wand) of Wall of Fire and surround the attacking army in a series of fiery walls.

You could then add in Simulacrums of the 'greatest warrior in the land' (probably the parties martial character) as actual troops.

Buy yourself a black hood and cackle evilly while using Shocking Grasp on the son of your corrupted apprentice.


Simulacrum has tons of uses. In one of my campaigns, the BBEG uses simulacrums of himself and his closest minions to carry out his plans for him. As his machinations are both grand and far reaching he needs assistants who are wholly loyal and capable, and low-level versions of himself and his most trusted underlings are a good fit.

From a world perspective, as others have noted, simulacrum can help you push action economy in your favor, or disrupt enemies. A 7th level mage (wizard or sorcerer) can fling around 7d6-8d6 blasting spells (sometimes with bonus damage in the case of evokers or certain sorcerers). Armed with spells like acid arrow, fireball/lightning bolt, and enervation, these simulacra can be deadly in their own right, especially when they gang up on someone.

For example, a group of 5 7th level wizards who combine greater invisibility + enervation will likely kill or cripple anything that they need to. Acid arrow ignores damage reduction and spell resistance (good for fighting golems), so spamming it at enemies is a big deal (it deals 2d4 per wizard or up to 10d4, repeating for 2 rounds). Are enemy spellcasters giving you woes? Well having your simulacrums all ready actions to interrupt enemy castings are handy (the concentration DCs are not very easy when the DC is 10 + 7d6 + spell level).


K177Y C47 wrote:
Sno-Cone Wish factory... nuff said

Possible in the absolute strictest possible straightjacket sense of RAW (in the same way that in the strictest possible straightjacket reading of planar binding suggests that having other planar beings get involved is against the spell), but explicitly decried by multiple designers across multiple threads on the subject.

nate lange wrote:

even just replicating yourself can yield a lot of benefits...

finally earned a place as the king's adviser but still want to adventure?
leave a similacrum at the palace to advise in your absence.

This is actually a pretty cool use, and one that I completely endorse. My own 15th level wizard is using simulacrum of herself to fulfill a promise of services to a noble, and another to manage some apprentices she's taken on along with her ship building plans. She may also leave one behind in her home city as a sort of presence there.

nate lange wrote:

have a bunch of items you want to craft but don't have the time?

put a similacrum to work (or take cooperative casting and put 2 simulacri on it)

Another pretty cool use that I completely endorse, and one most useful when crafting lower level gear.

nate lange wrote:

tired of obeying action economy?

bring a couple of similacri with you to indiscriminately toss around lower level spells while you cast the spells you actually want to cast.

do it with a mystic theurge and it can heal/buff/debuff/control and even deal some damage...

These are cool and legal uses, but somewhat dangerous, The cost of simulacrum combined with their fragility relative to appropriate monsters often means you can piss an awful lot of gold down the drain if you make a mistake or the enemy gets the jump on you. Generally speaking I think simulacrum work best from the perspective of a metatool rather than as an offensive weapon for that reason. There are of course exceptions. Please don't turn this into a blood money wish commentary.

We had a high level sorcerer in the party who was really in touch with the criminal element of a major city and devoted to making sure they played within the lines. He already had a reputation for being everywhere and seeing everything. Unfortunately the player left the game, but his plan was to create a few simulacrum of himself to patrol the city streets as needed and maintain the illusion that he remained in the city at all times as part of his plan to keep the criminals playing by the rules.

We also had the idea of creating a simulacrum of a powerful noble's slain daughter so he didn't know she had passed away (for a time), but that fell through. I've seen simulacrums of villains used to bluff their way through the villain's operations and dismantle them with half the fight. I've seen them used to create informants on the streets of a city. I've also seen them used to bluff enemies with the appearance of having various powerful beings on your side.

Overall a pretty useful and flavorful spell.


Simulacra are capable of all the same feelings as the originals! Don't they deserve rights of their own?


No.


I'm going to start a Free Simulacra Association! The HQ will be right next to the Emancipated Familiars Alliance building.


Umbral Reaver wrote:
I'm going to start a Free Simulacra Association! The HQ will be right next to the Emancipated Familiars Alliance building.

I volunteer for this association!!!


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I've heard of making giant snowman tarrasques as shock troops.


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Dragon steeds, pet balors (or other big tough meaty teleporting thingy with innate spells) and the like. Fabricate and craft:jewellery is used to gain the cash. Or improve upon the crafting scheme by simulacruing the master craftsmen of the realm... then set up a sweatshop. Churnig out supercheap masterworks. And no need to pay or feed your simulacrums.
Or if you are convinced they do need to eat, make a simulacrum of "tear of nuruu'gla" while at it. Immortality, sustenance etc granted to the host.

Balors are quite capable of teleporting and doing the adventuring for you... so you can be a stay at the tower wizard after level 13. Perhaps sovereign glue a portable gate to the chest of one of the balors so you can toss spells thru that hole and see what your balors are doing.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sculpt-simulacrum

Then there is this spell that allows for no end of sheaniganics. Like your balors, sculpt them into the shape of staffs and tell them to obey anyone that holds them. I bet you can sell those weapons for quite a profit ;)

Or a Djinni shaped into a table. Now its always covered in fresh foods, wines etc :D

Oh and interrogations. The big bad guy has some secrets? Make a simulacrum, or several. Theres a 50% chance it remembers and a 100% chance of being willing to tell.

And then ofcourse, if charm person fails you.. you can use the spell to create your own umm.. companions. Perhaps even messing with the royal bloodline by making pricess copies. And youll be the father of a whole lot of those offsprings. Very useful if there are some "gotta be of the royal bloodline to.." artifacts/doors etc. Now your simulacrum or even live kids/apprentices can operate those.


ikki3520 wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sculpt-simulacrum

Then there is this spell that allows for no end of sheaniganics. Like your balors, sculpt them into the shape of staffs and tell them to obey anyone that holds them. I bet you can sell those weapons for quite a profit ;)

Did not think of this. Consider it stolen. Great idea for a BBEG.

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