Goblinworks Blog: Beyond this Hill It Floods Rays of Hope


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Goblin Squad Member

Steelwing, for refference, this may be anecdotal evidence, but of the people you are aware of who play EvE how many use the ingame solution and how mayn use a out of game solution?

I'm asking because most of the small gaming groups ( for any game, really ) i'm part of or am aware of already have their own voice com server or at least access to one.


Papaver wrote:

Steelwing, for refference, this may be anecdotal evidence, but of the people you are aware of who play EvE how many use the ingame solution and how mayn use a out of game solution?

I'm asking because most of the small gaming groups ( for any game, really ) i'm part of or am aware of already have their own voice com server or at least access to one.

Erm I don't think I have ever met anyone who uses the in game voice chat in fact till you mentioned it I had actually forgotten Eve had one. Those that use it I suspect may be the people who remain in the NPC corps full time. That player group however will be split between those who park their alts in the NPC corps for wardec immunity and have their main characters in other groups and hisec only players. I would expect the former of those two groups to be still hanging out on the main char groups voice solution though.

Out of interest I went looking but could not find firm information on how many use it only anecdotal such as this thread Voice chat

Goblin Squad Member

C'mon, nobody wants to deride and criticize my "pinging" idea? I spent so much time writing that up instead of doing calculus homework... XD

Goblin Squad Member

I thought it was a good solution, Shane, especially after the list of ping arguments is threshed out.

Goblin Squad Member

leperkhaun wrote:
please please include a coordinate system for reporting bugs.

I can't remember which, but at least one game automatically included your location values in a report, along with an auto-screenshot. That seemed so complete I'm surprised it didn't become the standard practice.

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
I thought it was a good solution, Shane, especially after the list of ping arguments is threshed out.

Maybe I'll just give it a couple weeks and unbury it in its own thread for independent consideration and critiquing.

The main question I ask myself about it is: Will the system improve gameplay significantly for a majority of the players? I'm not informed enough to answer the question.

Goblin Squad Member

Jazzlvraz wrote:
leperkhaun wrote:
please please include a coordinate system for reporting bugs.
I can't remember which, but at least one game automatically included your location values in a report, along with an auto-screenshot. That seemed so complete I'm surprised it didn't become the standard practice.

Probably because that system also made it harder to 'bury' the true number of bugs in a game, and thus most companies won't use it to make themselves look better.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

For some reason I think Guild Wars 2 does the screenshot/coords for their bug reports, but it's been a while since I played, so I may be wrong.

Goblin Squad Member

I don't know about now, but they did give the player the option to include a screenshot, yes.

Goblin Squad Member

id rather not see in game voip. its a feature that ends up not adding enough to the game to make it worth the investment and operational costs.

it tends to end up being one of those things where the majority of the players forget about it and only a couple use it.

Goblin Squad Member

I for one hope PFO does have in-game voice chat for 'parties'. That would be more beneficial and save the out of game voice chats for the Settlements and Company use.

Goblin Squad Member

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EQ2 added an in game chat interface. I think I used it twice in a year? I can't remember for sure. My raiding guild had their own TS server.

I know it is necessary now for coordination and such, but I still have trouble with the deep bass voice coming out of the slim elf maiden (LOL).

I avoid voip chat for the most part.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

I like Shane's idea. I believe Rift allowed you to mark the in game locations for your group or raid. There was four different colors so you could designate, green marker for this effect, red for that one. Also marking targets and allies is always a bonus.

As for in game voip, its nice for a small group of people you dont work with often. But it doesnt get used much. Vent and TS are used way more. So I wouldn't want them to waste money on it for a while after OE.

Goblin Squad Member

Pax Shane Gifford wrote:
C'mon, nobody wants to deride and criticize my "pinging" idea? I spent so much time writing that up instead of doing calculus homework... XD

I would love the idea, since I will not be using Voicechat in any capacity. It's a stupid immersion thing but I simply can not get around it. I realize this puts me at a huge disadvantage in many areas, from having to find a Guild that somewhat caters to the likes of me, to grouping and organized PvP. However if something like your system would be implemented, and it is easy to use also in smaller groups then this would offset some of the disadvantages if more people would use it.

My biggest fear is that everyone will be on Voicechat in PFO because it gives such an advantage in a game like this.

Goblin Squad Member

One of the things I did like with EvE was that, even as a miner, I could still be of use to a raiding group by loading up with sensor probes and repair drones, use my brick of a mining vessel and go out and spam probes to help the attack force locate the bandits in low-sec/nul-sec space and throw my repair-drones at the smaller vessels to keep them alive longer.

Also, the hilarity of using my little brick of a mining vessel as a living missile to throw myself into the enemy formation and force them to path around me as I flew into their ships was always hilarious, especially if you could jag one of the mid-sized ships and force it into the path of an even bigger ship, you could get a domino effect going...

In Pathfinder Online, I would love to see an internal voice-chat system, just something basic so that your character can indeed 'talk', but only within normal range. IE, if you're 20 meters away from me, you'd better yell into that microphone, or else I'm not gonna hear you.

Goblin Squad Member

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I have developed the unfortunate habit of not watching the chatbox. Especially in crowded areas, the important stuff scrolls past too quickly, buried under all the spam dreck. VoIP is indispensable in battle especially if your unit maintains good comm discipline.

Goblin Squad Member

Banesama wrote:
I for one hope PFO does have in-game voice chat for 'parties'. That would be more beneficial and save the out of game voice chats for the Settlements and Company use.

Just in case folks missed this:

Quote:
2. In-game voice chat? So much more convenient than using a free third party system. Really loved that feature in DDO, and hating that it's not around in most other MMOs.

Possible but there are very good reasons not to do it, most importantly if the client/server crashes you may wish to retain voice comms via an independent system.

Plus all the good systems (Vivox) are royalty based and we may not have room in the budget.

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
I have developed the unfortunate habit of not watching the chatbox. Especially in crowded areas, the important stuff scrolls past too quickly, buried under all the spam dreck. VoIP is indispensable in battle especially if your unit maintains good comm discipline.

This is why I very strongly encourage Goblinworks to go ahead and make the default UI have two chat windows (each supporting multiple tabs): one for spammy channels like LFG and OOC (if they have them) and standard system messages; and another for the channels that are actually likely to be directed at the player, like /tell, /group, /guild, etc. That way, the system messages don't scroll off the /tells before you see them.


Nihimon wrote:
Being wrote:
I have developed the unfortunate habit of not watching the chatbox. Especially in crowded areas, the important stuff scrolls past too quickly, buried under all the spam dreck. VoIP is indispensable in battle especially if your unit maintains good comm discipline.

This is why I very strongly encourage Goblinworks to go ahead and make the default UI have two chat windows (each supporting multiple tabs): one for spammy channels like LFG and OOC (if they have them) and standard system messages; and another for the channels that are actually likely to be directed at the player, like /tell, /group, /guild, etc. That way, the system messages don't scroll off the /tells before you see them.

Most mmo's allow you to have multiple chat tabs and undock individual tabs for repositioning. I would expect PfO to be aiming to go down that route(eventually) rather than setting up two windows. Much better to give players control over their UI needs than dictate to them.

Currently in Eve for example I (when idling) have a chat window for local which I reduce to minimum size and use purely for numbers in system. A chat window for alliance chat. A chat window for intel networks. When in fleet I also have a chat window for that. So I may have as many as 4 windows open at once. Others however like my wife prefer one window with multiple tabs.

Goblin Squad Member

Steelwing wrote:
Most mmo's allow you to have multiple chat tabs and undock individual tabs for repositioning. I would expect PfO to be aiming to go down that route(eventually) rather than setting up two windows. Much better to give players control over their UI needs than dictate to them.

Yeah, and I always drag one of those tabs out to form a 2nd window for the kind of stuff that's actually directed at me. What I'm suggesting is that Goblinworks to make the default UI already have that, so that by default, players who aren't accustomed to doing it for themselves will still be more likely to see the kinds of chat that are actually directed at them.

Players who so choose would be free to eliminate that second window, or drag tabs out to create more, or whatever they want. Not sure why/if you thought I was trying to "dictate" what players should have.


Nihimon wrote:
Steelwing wrote:
Most mmo's allow you to have multiple chat tabs and undock individual tabs for repositioning. I would expect PfO to be aiming to go down that route(eventually) rather than setting up two windows. Much better to give players control over their UI needs than dictate to them.

Yeah, and I always drag one of those tabs out to form a 2nd window for the kind of stuff that's actually directed at me. What I'm suggesting is that Goblinworks to make the default UI already have that, so that by default, players who aren't accustomed to doing it for themselves will still be more likely to see the kinds of chat that are actually directed at them.

Players who so choose would be free to eliminate that second window, or drag tabs out to create more, or whatever they want. Not sure why/if you thought I was trying to "dictate" what players should have.

Because you were saying it would automatically start with 2 windows. While I have seen many mmo's where you can create extra chat windows. I have seen several where you cannot delete the default chat windows. As long as you can delete the second one that is fair enough it merely wasnt clear that you could.

Are there really many people who arent used to docking chat windows by now?

Goblin Squad Member

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Steelwing wrote:
Are there really many people who arent used to docking chat windows by now?

I think most players don't bother setting up a second window for direct tells and group/guild/raid chat. I think most of those haven't really given it much thought. I suggested making it the default because I think most of those players would find it useful.


Nihimon wrote:
Steelwing wrote:
Are there really many people who arent used to docking chat windows by now?
I think most players don't bother setting up a second window for direct tells and group/guild/raid chat. I think most of those haven't really given it much thought. I suggested making it the default because I think most of those players would find it useful.

I have no problem with that as long as the second window can be removed then.

Goblin Squad Member

As long as they don't start with something to try and cover everything. That is too simple and frustrating; make it more pretty, 10 times more complicated, and 100 times more buggy as they recently did in DFUW.

It is getting better, but what a mess followed by a disaster.

Goblin Squad Member

hmm I dun think five days counts as a necro hmm maybe a slight restore.... *casts cure moderate wounds on thread*

ok bad jokes aside anyone else concerned about this particular blog mentioning that classes have specific weapons and armor? I mean Pathfinder between multiclassing and the myriad of feats and other classes/sub classes(what was the name prestige class???) but regardless all of them used the same weapons and armor there was no specific this class uses this.
Also if I recall right even if your class did not have the requirement for said gear you could still wield it but with penalties.

I know its not using the same ruleset but forcing certain kinds of gear on a class feels like it goes counter to what pathfinder is.

Anyhow here is the part I'm talking about so you don't have to find it.
"We built the stats for each of the classes by hand, all of which have appropriate appearances for their class. We got wands, staves, shortswords, and greatswords in game, all with associated animations and visual effects. Thus, each class could have a class appropriate weapon to use in addition to wearing class appropriate armor."

I duno maybe I'm reading too much into it...

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

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Ashgan: I think that paragraph is about their internal playtesting. It's still VERY early days yet. As of now, I believe there are only four roles (classes) available - cleric, fighter, rogue and wizard - so making sure each of those had a class-appropriate set of armor and weapon, and related attack animations, was a priority for actual testing.

They will be adding more weapons (with the associated artwork and animations) and armor as they go. And the initial goal was to have the base classes in by Open Enrollment, though I don't know where that falls on the priority list.

Goblin Squad Member

well like I said I might be reading too much into it but the way its phrased seems like gear is specific to a class, duno *shrugs*

Goblin Squad Member

@Ashgan, I would assume myself that, at the moment, gear is indeed specific to the class. However, that's only because they are at a very early development stage where they don't even have leveled characters for the four classes; it will likely not be the same way once we are actually in-game (or at least, I hope we all aren't playing level four characters with very limited armor options!).

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