Err... Are my stats too high?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


STR: 20
DEX: 14
CON: 16
INT: 15
WIS: 12
CHA: 17

Human Paladin. That's two +2s, two +3s, a +5 and no +0s or minus scores. We did the roll 4d6 take away the lowest score separately so we could get straight into it in the first session. I don't want the DM/players to think I cheated, but more importantly I don't want to be so overpowered the others pale in comparison and the game becomes less fun for us all. D:
It was only when I looked at my previous characters I realised how strong it seemed. Any reassurance or advice when playing would be much appreciated!

Dark Archive

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The stats really aren't that bad. I've seen much worse than that pop up using the 4d6 and drop the lowest method. Everyone in your group has a fair chance to have stats just as good as yours, perhaps even better. I'd say just roll with it. A possible power disparity can be addressed once you've confirmed if there even is one. Remember, you always have the option to play with some restraint if you do discover an issue. That way the GM has time to find a proper solution.


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17+5+10+7+2+13 = 54 point buy equivalent

Epic High fantasy point buy is 25
PFS standard is 20
APs are written for 15

Rolling for stats is a great way to ensure this kind of problem. I don't recommend it.


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You'll get every reaction from "No" to "OMG!!!! Point Buy is best" and waxing philosophies about 15 pt buys. You should be asking your GM: it's his/her rules.

There's no shame in having a well-rounded character, BTW.


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Agree with Marthkus. If you avoid stepping on the schtick of other players I doubt anyone will notice but if you are constantly out-Charismaing the social monkey (assuming it's not you), out-fighting the combat monkey (again, assuming), or out-knowledging the knowledge monkey, people are going to get resentful of your super stats.

Out of curiosity are you also rolling for hp?

Liberty's Edge

If the method of rolling for character stats for this home game was agreed to by all; and you rolled your character's stats in front of the other players, then I would think that there is nothing amiss. The question of whether your character is too overpowered, or whether the other players might feel it would outshine their characters, should be discussed with the other players prior to the start of the campaign. You always have the option to consciously hold back on your character's tactics or actions so as not to hog the spotlight. Note also that even though your character has relatively high stats, it will also have its own inherent weaknesses that will need to be compensated for by other player's strengths. For example, paladins have limited spellcasting abilities and cannot cast spells until level 4. Moreover, paladins are constrained by alignment based restrictions to their actions, which can present added difficulties to the paladin.


While it is nice, compare to other players. If everyone else has got a 20-pt buy equivalent, then yes, it's too high, since you can dominat ethe rest of the party. The only way to compensate is to play a class that may be less powerful (or accept lower stats). Otherwise, that's the vagaries of rolling.

Sovereign Court

What are the other stats for the PCs out of curiosity?


darkwarriorkarg wrote:

You'll get every reaction from "No" to "OMG!!!! Point Buy is best" and waxing philosophies about 15 pt buys. You should be asking your GM: it's his/her rules.

There's no shame in having a well-rounded character, BTW.

'Well-rounded' and 'good at everything' aren't synonymous.

If you feel your stats are too high, then lower them until you're satisfied with them. I had to do this recently myself ... I simply rolled stats too high for my character concept (I would rather have done point-buy, but the GM insisted). So, after rolling nothing lower than a 12, I simply dumped my STR to 6 and WIS to 8 to fit the concept.

I can't imagine any GM complaining about a player arbitrarily lowering his stats.

Dark Archive

It's almost as easy to create a character on 20 point buy that's extremely good at everything.

Zhayne wrote:
I simply dumped my STR to 6 and WIS to 8 to fit the concept.

Sounds like a good dominate target.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Your stats alone will not dominate the party. A well built/played character can dominate, but this largely depends on how well built/played the surrounding characters are compared to yours rather than you initial stats.

Stats might give you head start, but the rest of character devolpment will have a far larger effect on your ability to dominate or fit in.


The Beard wrote:

It's almost as easy to create a character on 20 point buy that's extremely good at everything.

Zhayne wrote:
I simply dumped my STR to 6 and WIS to 8 to fit the concept.
Sounds like a good dominate target.

Well, Will is her good save, but yeah, probably. But, like I said, it fits the concept, so I don't care much.


I use the same rolling method for my group. The stats are always above normal for point buy, but I like high powered games, so it's not a big deal. I had a player roll 18,18,18,17,15,10 in front of me. I was impressed and she has an awesome fighter. Stats like that also help counter-balance inexperienced players (like the one above, very green!) so even if the character is under-optimized (and all the characters in my group are to some extent) they can still shine.


This happened to me once, The DM had a high powered campaign, so had us roll 4d6 drop the lowest, reroll 1 and 2s. I luckily ended up with numbers significantly higher than anyone else at the party, but I didn't want to overshadow them. I consulted with the DM, and then took the roll results of one of the other players, it worked out very well.


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It happens in rolled stats. Rolling where they can't see you roll and then bringing it in with crazy high scores may result in accusations of cheating though particularly if they don't know you well or you are looked upon with some suspicion for cheesing the game.

Best advice ask your DM.

Edit: Also if you want you can always lower some stats but overall it's going to be relatively minor compared to what you would get just normally putting your high stats where you want them.


For fairness, I used to average all ability score rolls, and allow anyone who scored under the average to move up to the average total (max 18). It allowed the lucky rollers to keep their awesome rolls without TOTALLY dominating the rest of the party. Everyone was okay with it, though of course the lucky roller was most happy.


Thanks everybody! I especially like the point about a paladin's other weaknesses like the code of morality, so I think I'll really ham up the moral conflicts of his king, his god, his own sense of what is good and not forcing his views on the rest of the party. :)
I'll tell my GM and if he wishes I'll fix some scores.

Yeah I'm rolling for health, got 41 (starting at Level 3). I didn't know there was any other way aside from rolling!

I don't know the others' scores, I'll find out on Friday in the first session, so I guess I can see if I'm disproportionately powerful then.

What is interesting is that we have two complete newbies so yeah, maybe my stats will help compensate for their probable weaknesses and lack of knowledge about the game. :)


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Here's how I would handle the situation.

Me: Hey GM, I've got some high rolls on the stats. I don't want you to think I was cheating, so I am willing to re-roll if I have to.

This will go over a lot better than just showing up on gameday and claiming the stats, because it will establish good will between you and the GM and let him come in on your side if the other players accuse you of anything.

Best case, GM says "Nah, I trust you, and we all knew rolling gets skewed results." Then you get to have your cake and eat it too.

"Worst" case, GM says "Yeah, I think it would be best if you re-rolled." You can still get high rolls.

I do have to say, though, that this whole situation could have been avoided if everyone had rolled their stats in the open for the GM. Then there would be no question. I recommend this approach in the future!


toxicpie wrote:

Thanks everybody! I especially like the point about a paladin's other weaknesses like the code of morality, so I think I'll really ham up the moral conflicts of his king, his god, his own sense of what is good and not forcing his views on the rest of the party. :)

I'll tell my GM and if he wishes I'll fix some scores.

Yeah I'm rolling for health, got 41 (starting at Level 3). I didn't know there was any other way aside from rolling!

I don't know the others' scores, I'll find out on Friday in the first session, so I guess I can see if I'm disproportionately powerful then.

What is interesting is that we have two complete newbies so yeah, maybe my stats will help compensate for their probable weaknesses and lack of knowledge about the game. :)

For HP I think most people nowadays use the rounded average or the weighted averages offered in PFS? Simply to avoid having the chance of a 3rd level Barb running around with 36+cbon and the fighter with 12+cbon in the same party just because of bad/good dumb luck.

Sovereign Court

What is a cbon?


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toxicpie wrote:

STR: 20

DEX: 14
CON: 16
INT: 15
WIS: 12
CHA: 17

Human Paladin. That's two +2s, two +3s, a +5 and no +0s or minus scores. We did the roll 4d6 take away the lowest score separately so we could get straight into it in the first session. I don't want the DM/players to think I cheated, but more importantly I don't want to be so overpowered the others pale in comparison and the game becomes less fun for us all. D:
It was only when I looked at my previous characters I realised how strong it seemed. Any reassurance or advice when playing would be much appreciated!

If you guys roll at home i will expect that everybody have that sort of stats ;)


Pan wrote:
What is a cbon?

Constitution BONus.


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Once you get past about 4th or 5th level, stats really stop mattering because once you get to a certain point, bonuses from leveling overshadow even really good stats.

Personally I would rock an 18 STR and a 19 CHA for more balance on my character sheet.

It's not that bad of a character because you are playing a paladin, high STR and CHA are expected, you will have a few extra skill ranks and a will save that is 2 points higher than most point buy builds. When you look at the actual practicality of those stats vs what you would have in a point buy, there really isn't that much issue here.

Pathfinder's Point Buy system is extremely flawed, and forcing every player in every game to adhere to it is an atrocity imo. It's basically Communism.


Monkerdoodle wrote:
It's basically Communism.

Is that close enough to Godwinning to call it?

Sovereign Court

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Zhayne wrote:
Monkerdoodle wrote:
It's basically Communism.
Is that close enough to Godwinning to call it?

Actually I could stand to hear a bit more. I wonder if he has a newsletter?


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Zhayne wrote:
Monkerdoodle wrote:
It's basically Communism.
Is that close enough to Godwinning to call it?

Nazi's are overplayed, I feel we should start irrationally comparing things to Soviet Communism more often.


Hahahah! Nice name, Monkerdoodle! I approve.


The people I generally play with are floored by my awesome power if I so much as Power Attack with a two handed weapon. Holding your character back a little bit can be a good option if you don't mind it, and can possibly make for a really great session where your party is on the brink of death and you unleash the big guns.


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Monkerdoodle wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
Monkerdoodle wrote:
It's basically Communism.
Is that close enough to Godwinning to call it?
Nazi's are overplayed, I feel we should start irrationally comparing things to Soviet Communism more often.

"In Soviet Golarion, points buy YOU!"

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