Disir


Round 2: Create a Bestiary entry

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

7 people marked this as a favorite.

This spectral woman floats midair with an unearthly grace and demanding presence.

Disir CR 4
XP 1,200
LN Medium Outsider (incorporeal, kami, native)
Init +7; Senses Darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +11
Aura fate (20 ft.)

----- Defense -----
AC 17, touch 17, flat-footed 14 (+4 deflection, +3 Dex)
hp 37 (5d10+10); fast healing 2
Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +7
Defensive Abilities incorporeal; Resist acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, fire 10

----- Offense -----
Speed fly 30 ft. (perfect)
Melee incorporeal touch +8 (2d8 cold damage plus cursed fate)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; concentration +9)
At will—mage hand

----- Statistics -----
Str —, Dex 16, Con 14,Int 13, Wis 17, Cha 18
Base Atk +5; CMB +8 CMD 18
Feats Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative
Skills Diplomacy +12, Intimidate +12, Fly +19, Knowledge (local) +9, Perception +11, Sense Motive +11, Stealth +11
Languages Common, Skald; Telepathy 100 ft.
SQ merge with ward, ward (house)

----- Ecology -----
Environment Urban
Organization Solitary or entourage (1 disir plus 1d4 domovoi house spirits)
Treasure Standard

----- Special Abilities -----

Aura of Fate (Su) A disir within or nearby to its ward radiates an aura of fate to a radius of 20 feet. Enemies within the aura forced to roll two d20s whenever a situation calls for a d20 roll (such as an attack roll, a skill check, or a saving throw) and must use the lower of the two results generated. Allies designated by the disir in this aura are instead blessed with good fate, and likewise roll two d20s whenever a situation calls for a d20 roll, but may take the higher result instead. This is a mind-affecting morale effect that does not work on fey or other kami. A disir may suppress this aura at will as a free action.

Cursed Fate (Su) Any creature touched by a disir must succeed at a Will save (DC 16) or become cursed. Cursed creatures treat a roll of 20 on a d20 as a roll of 1 and may not take a 10 or a 20 on skill checks. This curse lasts for 24 hours and the save DC is Charisma based.

Disir are kami native to the Lands of the Linnorm Kings, formed from the spirits of devoted family members or servants thereof. The first disir originated from families that settled in Kalsgard after crossing the path of Aganhei over the Crown of the World from Tian Xia. These kami serve as guardians of family homes, acting as watchful protectors of both the families that live within them and the structures themselves.

A disir prefers to remain anonymous, going about its activity when family members are not present. They occasionally benefit the family by means of their fate aura or more mundane tasks; tidying up the house, locking doors, or shutting windows left open in cold months.

Most disir continue to protect the home of the family they were a member of in life, or otherwise were strongly devoted to, moving with them from one ward home to another as the family moves. When a family line guarded by a disir is wiped out, the disir falls into a bleak depression and remains fixated on their last place of residence, becoming a vengeful and spiteful spirit that forcibly attempts to evict any other family that tries to take up residence or otherwise trespass in its ward.

Disir have a fond regard for house spirits, particularly domovoi, whom on occasion form bonds of cooperation to better the home and family they are bonded to.

Webstore Gninja Minion , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Hi Robert! I'll be one of the judges for this round, and I'll be looking at a couple of key points for your creature: flavor, GM usability, and how well it fits into the world of Golarion. For some background, I helped found the Wayfinder fanzine before I started working for Paizo, and these are all points that I took into consideration when selecting articles for the magazine. In addition, I oversee every third-party Pathfinder Roleplaying Game product that makes its way onto Paizo.com.

Flavor
Yes! House spirits! A particular topic I enjoy seeing in its many incarnations. Incorporeal creatures that are not undead always make me double-take, but you've managed to make it work with the background.

GM Usability
This creature is ripe for some excellent plot hooks, and I appreciate the ability to use this creature as friend, foe, or NPC. A minor quibble is not including a language from Tian Xia, but as I said, minor. Not sure why an incorporeal creature has treasure, but again, another minor quibble and not a show-stopper. Some indication of where domovoi could be found would also be helpful, as it is not contained in the Pathfinder Reference Document.

Setting
Excellent ties to the setting—I could easily see this being an additional encounter in the Jade Regent Adventure Path, and I've thought of a half-dozen hooks in the time I've written this up. Additionally, in fine Paizo tradition, you have taken a creature from mythology and made it work in Golarion. Well done!

Final Thoughts
The core concept is very strong and setting-appropriate, and the mechanics are spot-on. I DO recommend this monster for advancement.

Goblinworks Lead Game Designer

Hi Robert, I'm Lee Hammock, the lead game designer on Pathfinder Online. Before that I did lots of d20 freelance work, but I'm probably going to be leaving mechanics to the more up to date judges and concentrating on story, overall balance, and how I could see using them in a game.

Great story, I'm a big fan of house spirits and family spirits. This seems like it would be pretty useful, both as a creepy ally to the player characters and as an enemy when dealing with a disir whose family is dead. I could totally see using this in game.

I do worry the stats are pretty tough. Incorporeal with a lot of energy resistances, plus a pretty damaging melee attack that ignores armor seems pretty rough for CR 4. Also with the Curse of Fate turning a 20 into a 1 seems pretty terrible since you're completely taking away a players feeling of “Yay I rolled a 20!” and there is nothing they can do about it. It seems there could be other ways to curse people's rolls without losing that feeling.

All that said, this is a Should Vote For.

Paizo Employee Developer , Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

Congrats on making it to this round! May you have the luck and talent to push all the way through to the end!

”How I Judged These Monsters”:

When I develop a monster for the Adventure Path bestiaries, I print out the monster entry, and then go through it in a quick pass, marking up the page with notes and highlighting any problems that I need to address later when I really dig into it. Much of the time I’m circling things in the stat block or flavor text and leaving a quick note. Most often, this quick note pass is performed while I’m writing out art orders for the monsters so I can make sure that the description I give to the artist is what the final monster will be. This is where I make note of any changes I plan to make (some of which I’m sure frustrate some of my freelancers from time to time).

I’m going to judge this round in a similar manner to how I’d treat a monster I ordered from a freelancer if I asked one of my freelancers to just send me something within the same parameters that you’ve been given. My review isn’t anything personal, and since tone is difficult to communicate online sometimes, imagine my comments and critiques read in a friendly and nudging way. To heighten the experience, imagine my comments on your monster written in purple ink. :)

The blue italicized first line in my review was my gut reaction from reading the name with no context whatsoever. It was a fun guessing game I was playing while reviewing the monsters, so I included that note for everyone’s enjoyment. (Spoiler Alert: I was wrong a lot.)

And now to the monster!

Folklore tells me these are spirits associated with fate in Norse myth.

That disir are from Norse myth makes it weird that these are kami.
You gave it the kami subtype but didn’t give it the kami immunities.
Telepathy isn’t capitalized, or urban, solitary, or standard.
The pugwumpi unluck aura modified: this is a frustrating mechanic that made the pugwumpi infamous, so I’m sure this creature would be equally frustrating in play
I like that you used domovoi and mention other house spirits
Reading the flavor makes more sense why they are linked to kami, but it feels like muddying the waters a bit. You’re taking a Norse critter, making it a kami, and then mentioning how they like to hang out with other Slavic house spirits.
Mixing the fey exclusion to the aura of fate seems weird. It’s almost like you really wanted to make a fey creature, but went the kami route. I think this would have been more solid if you just stuck with the fey aspects.
I like the link to family. It provides a good hook for GMs to use the creatures in both beneficial and aggressive ways.
I disagree with some of the design decisions, but I like the idea.
The monster is urban and tied to Golarion. It wouldn’t take much time to develop this entry.

I do recommend disir for advancement.

Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9

Congratulations Robert,
I am trying to keep reviews simple to get through them quickly.
Creative: Mostly, I like spirits watching family, but lots of mechanics say roll two take the best/worse.
Fun to GM: while I like the mechanics of meta-game dice mixing, messing with the natural 20, just seems wrong.
Golarion Tie: works for me, though I am unclear on how they attach to a family.

Good luck! :)

Silver Crusade Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

I like both special abilities a lot. And I like incorporeal creatures. But this doesn't work for me. It seems forced. In particular, she is LN in alignment, but both special abilities are chaotic in nature.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Thank you, judges, for the thoughtful and in-depth review of the disir, and thank you to everyone else who has taken an interest in this creature and given their comments and criticisms! :)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka theheadkase

Dunno what the name's supposed to mean so I'll keep reading to learn.

Ooooo a kami.

That's a lot of resistances.

Yikes...an Aura of always reroll and take the lower. That's a bit much.

Aaaaand a negate natural 20 ability for 24 hours. And it can be affected multiple times per day (1x per day might have been apropos here). A little bit more OP as a creature now.

Hm...I learned about disir now thank you Wikipedia. Not quite making the connection with the abilities.

Overall, now that I know it is Norse in origin the background makes sense but there's a lot of mix of Asian flavor. Odd, but not bad. You've got a tight vision and while I would dial back the deadliness that doesn't take much development. The idea and the hooks inherent in the beastie far outweigh the picks. Keep.


I really like this monster. The mechanics are interesting - too many witches inflict my monsters with misfortune it would be fun to get them back. And it has quite an easy insert into an urban campaign.

A little OP, especially with the large resistances but nothing a good party could not handle.

This one gets my vote.

Star Voter Season 7

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Interesting monster, which would only really be encountered with others (probably members of it's patron family).

One thing though, there was a monster in the 2nd Ed AD&D Dragonlance expansion, the Time of the Dragon also called a Disir (although it was nothing like this one). Don't know if that's important or not.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 , Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Mark D Griffin

I have quite a few problems with this monster. What is the precise definition of a ward, and how does a Disir go about changing its ward? How close is "nearby" for the aura of fate to work? I also think that incorporeal, flying, fast fealing, lots of resists and aura of fate will make this thing very difficult to kill. I like the flavor of this entry, but the mechanics don't do it for me.

Webstore Gninja Minion , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Mark D Griffin wrote:
I have quite a few problems with this monster. What is the precise definition of a ward, and how does a Disir go about changing its ward?

Ward is part of the kami subtype, as described here. (That tripped me up too.)

Star Voter Season 7

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Kami! Vote for!

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 9

Mark, a 'ward' is a term used in conjunction with Kami. Basically, it is an entity they are bonded to, like a house or a pot or a mountain.

I mention that because I really like seeing a Kami. Don't know why, they're just a really neat type, and this is a pretty neat Kami.

I don't really like the aura of fate, it's really good for a constant no-save effect - an average of about a +3/-3 on a roll. For everyone within 20 feet. On every roll. That's really high for a CR 4 creature.


I didn't have a lot of time for item reviewing this weekend, so I'm doing monsters instead. First I'll look at how the monster's basic rundown fits the monster creation table, then general theme and abilities.

= Monster meets the target statistics for its CR
+ Monster exceeds the target stats for its CR
++ Monster greatly exceeds target stats for its CR
- Monster's stats do not meet target stats for its CR
-- Monster's stats are greatly below target stats for its CR

hp: -
AC: =
Atk =
Dmg --
Primary Ability DC: +
Secondary Ability DC: n/a
Good save: =/=
Poor save: =

Hp are slightly low, but it is incorporeal, has fast healing, and it has resistances. A whole...lot...of...resistances. Those might be a bit much, but otherwise this is well balanced mechanically.

Aura of Fate: Agh, it's like a jacked-up pugwampi, except I can't catch it and squeeze the life out of it until the aura goes away.

Cursed Fate: Agh, it's a nasty curse that takes away the best part of rolling dice in this game. This really is a monster.

I'm not sure about the whole kami-masquerading-as-a-nordic-spirit thing, and I agree it should have probably been a fey considering the close connection, but it's a solid monster for an urban setting and fits nicely in Golarion. Good job.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka DankeSean

I'm going to go against the grain, and say this didn't really wow me. First off, disir as household spirits seems like a strange limiting of the concept. I'm not by any means an expert on the intricacies of Scandinavian folklore, but I'd always understood them more as mini-norns, whose 'fate' umbrella covered a community as a whole. Now, given that pathfinder makes norns themselves a somewhat diluted concept of the original, I can see that putting disir down a rank or so. Still, I'd have been more favorable to this if it kept them more generalized and maybe had a direct tie into the concerns of the norns of the Linnorm Kingdoms.
But even as household spirits, I'm not really loving the use of kami as their subtype. Not because of the location; I'm actually fine with kami showing up outside of Tien Xa; in fact, I don't even think the explanation you gave is necessary, though I might be the minority in that. My problem is that kami are more nature-oriented, and while there are a few types that have manmade structures as their wards rather than aspects of the natural world (which makes this at least somewhat in line with what's gone before) making them guardians of a household and family again feels like too limiting a concept. So that's both the original folklore source and the in-game folklore that feels off to me.
And then mechanically their 'fate' abilities kill it for me. Aura of Fate makes me grind my teeth just reading about it. I didn't like another entry using the pugwampi annoyance mechanic, and I don't like it here either.
This seems to have some love going for it, so I think you're safe, but I won't be voting for it. Make me change my mind next round!

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 , Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Mark D Griffin

My bad on the Kami subtype, I had never read it before. That does clear up some issues I had, but ultimately the too stalwart defenses and the constant fate aura without a save make this still a no vote for me.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral

Disir
The Good: Kami are cool.
The Bad: negating a nat 20?
The Ugly: A CR 4? This thing will punch way harder then normal if its in co-op with anything decently melee.
Overall: 6.5/10- High end of middling for me. It has novelty points but I'm not with the judges and leaning towards other options.

The Exchange Marathon Voter Season 6

Something I like about this monster that I feel has been overlooked is the following that Kami subtypes have as an ability.

Merge with Ward (Su) As a standard action, a kami can merge its body and mind with its ward. When merged, the kami can observe the surrounding region with its senses as if it were using its own body, as well as via any senses its ward might have. It has no control over its ward, nor can it communicate or otherwise take any action other than to emerge from its ward as a standard action. A kami must be adjacent to its ward to merge with or emerge from it. If its ward is a creature, plant, or object, the kami can emerge mounted on the creature provided the kami’s body is at least one size category smaller than the creature. If its ward is a location, the kami may emerge at any point within that location

The fact that the Disirs aura works while it is in its war state makes for all sorts of interesting and fluid combats. This guy is a harrrasser and would be very challenging. I love the creative use of the ability and this guy has my vote.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka JoelF847

I wasn't a fan of this monster. Between mixing the Nordic folklore of it with the kami subtype which comes form a completely different culture, the too strong defenses for a CR4 creature (lots of PCs who fight a CR4 solo creature won't necessarily have a magic weapon even, and they can't hurt it with energy either cause of the resistances) and they fast heal for whatever limited damage the PCs can sneak in, and the way to powerful damage and aura of fate (which is taking the cool factor from pugwampis and re-skinning it in a way that cheapens the pugwampi shtick).

Also, they're so powerful for a house spirit, I can see the whole town trying to get adopted by the lucky family that has one.

Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

While I actually love the norse myth/kami crossover concept, I don't find enough here to really grab me. The descriptive text is lacking a real grab.

Having said that I think this is still a very strong entry - the disir ties in very well with both its mythological roots and its new Pathfinder kami game mechanical echelon - I agree the fey/kami mixing in aura of fate is a little bit odd, but in the end I think it holds up nicely.

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9

I think you made an interesting choice combining Norse mythology with the kami subtype, and, while I consider it a weird mashup, I don't find anything wrong with the decision. I do think you could have knocked down the resistances for a CR 4 monster, and, in my opinion, it has far too many hit points for an incorporeal creature with fast healing. These are things that can be patched in development, though.

I like the strong Golarion ties, but I'm not picking up a real sense of this being an urban creature. It could fit in an urban environment, but it could also easily fit into a secluded thorp.

Overall, this monster has more to recommend it than not. I wish you good luck in the voting.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Whew! It's been a heck of a week, so I thought I'd come in now that voting is closed and give my sincerest thanks to everyone who looked at my monster (whether or not you voted on it!) With that said, I thought I'd go through some of the comments and points noted here and give some responses.

Curaigh wrote:
Golarion Tie: works for me, though I am unclear on how they attach to a family.

The monster's descriptive text specifies that this is a kami born from devoted family members or servants thereof. Individuals who possess a great and powerful tie to their bloodline (and a protectiveness) as well as life-long and devoted servants (far and above the norm) would become Disir, much as any kami would be formed (see Bestiary 2 for more on their ecology in general.)

The Fox wrote:
I like both special abilities a lot. And I like incorporeal creatures. But this doesn't work for me. It seems forced. In particular, she is LN in alignment, but both special abilities are chaotic in nature.

They are devoted and dedicated, life-long protectors of a single family line. That sounds pretty lawful and neutral to me! Furthermore, the Disir's fate aura isn't a chaotic-aligned power, nor is predestination or the concept of it inherently chaotic. Perhaps this concept was muddied a little by borrowing from the pugwampi's unluck aura, but it was never intended to appear chaotic.

theheadkase wrote:
Overall, now that I know it is Norse in origin the background makes sense but there's a lot of mix of Asian flavor. Odd, but not bad. You've got a tight vision and while I would dial back the deadliness that doesn't take much development. The idea and the hooks inherent in the beastie far outweigh the picks. Keep.

If you renamed the kami subtype "aesir" you wouldn't notice anything. While the concept of a kami spirit comes from our own real-world Japan's religious animism traditions, it isn't entirely bound to that in Golarion. The concept of a "kind spirit that stays beyond death" is hardly an Asian-centric theme, and it actually blends into the folklore of the Disir too (though more on that in another comment.) I think once you get past the name and look solely at the abilities, the "Asian" flavor becomes more Nordic. Though I did tie it in to the Jade Quarter of Kalsgard, in order to thematically link its origins with Tian-Xia.

Sean McGoawn wrote:

I'm going to go against the grain, and say this didn't really wow me. First off, disir as household spirits seems like a strange limiting of the concept. I'm not by any means an expert on the intricacies of Scandinavian folklore, but I'd always understood them more as mini-norns, whose 'fate' umbrella covered a community as a whole. Now, given that pathfinder makes norns themselves a somewhat diluted concept of the original, I can see that putting disir down a rank or so. Still, I'd have been more favorable to this if it kept them more generalized and maybe had a direct tie into the concerns of the norns of the Linnorm Kingdoms.

But even as household spirits, I'm not really loving the use of kami as their subtype. Not because of the location; I'm actually fine with kami showing up outside of Tien Xa; in fact, I don't even think the explanation you gave is necessary, though I might be the minority in that. My problem is that kami are more nature-oriented, and while there are a few types that have manmade structures as their wards rather than aspects of the natural world (which makes this at least somewhat in line with what's gone before) making them guardians of a household and family again feels like too limiting a concept. So that's both the original folklore source and the in-game folklore that feels off to me.
And then mechanically their 'fate' abilities kill it for me. Aura of Fate makes me grind my teeth just reading about it. I didn't like another entry using the pugwampi annoyance mechanic, and I don't like it here either.
This seems to have some love going for it, so I think you're safe, but I won't be voting for it. Make me change my mind next round!

Hi Sean, I thought I'd take some time to address your knowledge of the disir as they are presented in Norse mythology. The wikipedia article on them is pretty bad and largely inaccurate, based on what I've read of them outside of wikipedia. Let me share a couple of quotes from different sources on them:

"A dis ("lady") is a spirit (sometimes thought to be a lesser female deity or wight) who plays a role in the fate of a person, a person’s general wellbeing and attributes such as luck, orlog, and are representative of death in other instances."

"Disir are intrinsically tied into familial relations and kinship. They were sometimes thought to be ancestral spirits, sometimes collective spirits of a person's family ancestors, who guarded and looked after their descendants. They play an important part of wyrd and orlog concerning the individuals that they watch over. "

"Throughout the sagas and tales, you get a picture of both sides of the coin- and what it means to lose the favor of a dis. One one hand: the disir provided luck, helped in childbirth, gave warnings and protected the individual/family they watched, helped them in battle and otherwise watched over the family. However: In the tales, you’ll find mention of disir becoming ill-tempered (whether due to a lack of sacrifice, some anger provoked by the individual or family, a dramatic or sudden loss of luck, or for no apparent reason) and this bodes ill for the person/family, sometimes resulting in the death of a person."

Sources
Norse Mythology: A Guide to Gods, Heroes, Rituals, and Beliefs By John Lindow
Teutonic Mythology, Volume 1 By Jacob Grimm
The Celtic And Scandinavian Religions By J. A. MacCulloch

The sources, I think, create a compelling argument for the use of the kami subtype and the abilities possessed by the disir :)

Joel Flank wrote:
Between mixing the Nordic folklore of it with the kami subtype which comes form a completely different culture[...]

The Linnorm Kingdoms culture actually meets Tian-Xia in the city of Kalsgard, mentioned in the flavor text, in a location called the Jade Quarter which is where immigrants from Tian-Xia who crossed over the path of Aganhei reside. There has been a canonical tie between "Norse" and "Asian" flavor in Golarion for quite some time :)

----

While the disir may seem difficult to defeat with all of its resistances, there's a significant weakness it possesses that isn't immediately called out in its text; its ward. Outside of its ward, the disir loses its fast healing ability and if its ward is destroyed it suffers permanent debilitation. While not every group will burn down a house to spite an enemy, in some cases it might be necessary.

But, that isn't even the only option necessary. A 4th-level party has access to the spell magic weapon (a 1st-level spell) as well as a plethora of other abilities that allow you to ignore the kami's incorporeal nature (not even considering spells like magic missile or ghostbane dirge that completely negate that defensive ability.

With 37 hp a 4th-level fighter with a 15 strength and power attack using a longsword deals 10.5 damage on an average hit. At that rate it would only take three hits to defeat the disir. Furthermore, that same fighter would be attacking with an attack bonus of +4 or higher, meaning they hit on a 13 or better on a d20. Not ideal odds, but even with the aura of unluck not debilitating. Lastly, the disir only deals 9 points of damage a round on average. This is further mitigated if the PCs have access to spells or abilities that can grant resistance to cold damage.

While the disir is challenging, I don't think that as designed it is outside of its CR. It just requires tactics and planning to defeat. Blind luck happens to be in its favor.

Thanks again to everyone who commented and discussed the disir, and thanks to anyone who voted for it! Hopefully I'll get to see you in the next round! :)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka JoelF847

Robert, about your counterarguments about the CR appropriateness of the disir, in all fairness, a 4th level party isn't as likely to fight just a single disir alone and have it be a challenge. That would be a regular old encounter, and yes they can defeat it through a variety of tactics. A CR4 monster though would be a tough fight as a solo opponent for a 2nd level party, which wouldn't have many of the resources you're looking at.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Ghostbane dirge is the only thing I specifically called out that a party of 2nd level PCs wouldn't have access to normally. It would still be challenging but even at APL +2 I don't think the disir is too far outside its CR. But without a playtest thats hard to be completeky certain on.

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 9

There's a big flaw with your balance argument, robert, a fighter doesn't have to roll a 13 or higher, they have to roll two. A 4th level fighter would hit it about 50% of the time depending on build (assuming he hasn't been hit yet, in which case he misses on a 20, as well), but with having to reroll every attack, it's closer to 25% of the time (or 20%, if he's been hit).

Which means a fighter that does 10.5 damage on a hit would do an average of 2.1 damage a round to it. Taking fast healing into account, and its immunity to crits, sneak attacks, it being neutral, non-undead and energy resistant (negating every major weakness it might have), that fighter would take an average of 28 rounds to kill the creature. in 28 rounds, assuming no healing from outside sources, this creature could kill about six of those same 4th level fighters (or far more rogues, wizards or sorcerers, who would be far less effective on average than a fighter, and have less hp).

What that means is for an average party of six 4th level characters would have at best even odds of defeating this creature without suffering at least one loss - which puts it closer to CR 7, as written.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 , Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Mark D Griffin

Even with a magic weapon, that fighter is only dealing 5 damage, not 10, to an incorporeal monster which only takes 50% damage from magic weapons. Ghostbane dirge would increase this to 10, but the Disir has a pretty good will save. On top of that, the aura of fate puts that fighters chance to hit down under 50%, and hitting things is likely his only job. A level 2 fighter's chance is 36%. This doesn't even take into account cursed fate yet (level 2 fighter sinks down to 30%). Or the fact that the Disir can fly away at any point and fast heal.

I think the monster is cool, and it still makes my top 16. I just think it could be toned down a little.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

I think in terms of balancing it against its resistances, lowering its overall AC and HP would probably suffice. That's definitely the simplest angle. Revising the aura to include a Will save at exposure (and 24-hour immunity on success) would be another. I toyed with that idea initially but second guessed myself on it.


Congratulations Robert!

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Thanks, Lloyd!

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