Arcane Discovery: Resilient Illusions and cross over effects from feats


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

From the new Magical Market Place book there is a new Arcane Discovery:

Resilient Illusions:

You are able to conjure illusions so lifelike that they defy disbelief.
Prerequisite: Wizard 8
[b]Benefit:[b/] Anytime a creature tries to disbelieve one of your illusion effects, make a caster level check. Treat the illusion's save DC as its normal DC or the result of the caster level check, whichever is higher.

Just wondering how this interacts with a few common feats:

Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus: Does the DC bonus apply to the result of the caster level check based DC?
My guess here is no.

Spell Specialization, Varisian Tattoo, Shadow Caster (trait): Do the Caster Level bonus apply?

My guess here is yes, and do they stack?

Spell Perfection: For the purposes of this roll do the Spell Specialization/Tattoo feats double?

Again guessing here, but yes?

So at say level 15, you could cast a Greater Shadow Evocation, as your specialized, perfected spell, and roll:
DC 20 + 15 (caster level) + (1 (tattoo) + 2 (Spell Spec) + 1 (SC))*2 (spell perfection + 1 (ioun stone) for your DC.
Or,
1d20 + 24, which on Average is 34.

Compared to,
10 + 8 (spell level) + 10 (caster stat of 30) + ( 1 spell focus + 1 gsf)*2 (spell perfection)
DC 32?

I guess the plus side for the Caster level maximizing approach, is if you use spell perfection to get add intensified spell, add cast the various level 6 evocations with 20 dice instead of 15. (the 7th level ones with 21. Caster level also aids in breaking down SR.

I guess my Rules Question is drifting into an advice question, but is this Arcane Discovery worth the feat investment for an illusionist? (and now petulantly why do only gnomes get threatening illusions :( )


I'd agree that Spell Focus and Greater do not apply, however:

Benefit: Select one spell of a school for which you have taken the Spell Focus feat. Treat your caster level as being two higher for all level-variable effects of the spell.

Every time you gain an even level in the spellcasting class you chose your spell from, you can choose a new spell to replace the spell selected with this feat, and that spell becomes your specialized spell.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different spell.

Emphasis mine.

A caster level check (at least the one used for Resilient Illusions) is not a "level-variable effect of the spell" and so Spell Specialization would not come into play with Resilient Illusions.

Benefit: Select a school of magic (other than divination) in which you have Spell Focus—you cast spells from this school at +1 caster level. Additionally, you gain a single spell-like ability usable up to three times per day. The spell-like ability gained are as follows:

  • Abjuration: resistance
  • Conjuration: acid splash
  • Enchantment: daze
  • Evocation: dancing lights
  • Illusion: ghost sound
  • Necromancy: touch of fatigue
  • Transmutation: mage hand

Emphasis mine.

This is iffy. Strictly speaking, it only raises you caster level when you cast the spell, which in turn would only affect the spell's "effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt)... your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check)." The caster level check for Resilient Illusions does not (in my opinion) fall into any of those categories (it's a function of the feat, not the spell).

Benefit: You gain a +4 trait bonus on Concentration checks when casting spells with the darkness, pain, or shadow descriptors.

Emphasis mine.

Resilient Illusions does not have you make a concentration check, so Shadow Caster does not apply.


Honorable Goblin wrote:
A few things

You're dead-on with Shadow Caster, and Spell Specialization is an interesting point worth investigating (although this does seem to be a "level-variable effect").

However Varisian Tattoo straight out increases the caster level, and you're making a caster level check. The text of things that caster level affects cannot be all-encompassing to new rules that use it.


Majuba wrote:
Honorable Goblin wrote:
A few things

You're dead-on with Shadow Caster, and Spell Specialization is an interesting point worth investigating (although this does seem to be a "level-variable effect").

However Varisian Tattoo straight out increases the caster level, and you're making a caster level check. The text of things that caster level affects cannot be all-encompassing to new rules that use it.

Fair enough. I suppose it was just my dislike for spell/magic in PF subconsciously biasing my argument.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Apologies, but by Shadow Caster, I meant Shadowcaster,

Shadowcaster wrote:


Shadowcaster
You have studied with the feared shadow casters.

Benefit: Choose one spell with the shadow descriptor—from this point on, whenever you cast this spell, its effect manifest at +1 caster level.

All though Master Illusionist is better but net the same effect:

Master Illusionist wrote:


Master Illusionist
You have studied with the feared shadow casters.

Benefit: Choose one spell with the shadow descriptor—from this point on, whenever you cast this spell, its effect manifest at +1 caster level.

It is amusing that having studied with the Shadow Casters makes you a better illusionist then actually being a Shadowcaster... but I digress...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Honorable Goblin wrote:
Majuba wrote:
Honorable Goblin wrote:
A few things

You're dead-on with Shadow Caster, and Spell Specialization is an interesting point worth investigating (although this does seem to be a "level-variable effect").

However Varisian Tattoo straight out increases the caster level, and you're making a caster level check. The text of things that caster level affects cannot be all-encompassing to new rules that use it.

Fair enough. I suppose it was just my dislike for spell/magic in PF subconsciously biasing my argument.

By RAW I'm forced to agree on Spell Specialization, it does make the wording of the feat awkward. Either then this weird corner cases, wouldn't it be easier to say "your caster level is considered 2 higher for the purposes of casting this spell" or basically as the shadowcaster trait specifies it: "its effect manifest at +1 caster level."


I think you got your quotes off Gal - and you might want to use archivesofnethys.com instead - you get the original names that way.

I believe you're referencing Iadaran Illusionist and Nidalese Shadowcaster.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Possibly I used http://www.d20pfsrd.com, mechanically the quotations are copy/paste from there. If the fluff has been changed for copyright issues then I can't do much about that.

I'm curious why d20pfsrd and archiveofnethys would have the fluff different. I can't imagine why they can operate under different rules?


Galnörag wrote:
Possibly I used http://www.d20pfsrd.com, mechanically the quotations are copy/paste from there. If the fluff has been changed for copyright issues then I can't do much about that.

Archives vs. other was a side issue - your copy/pastes are identical (other than header).

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