True Detective


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Sovereign Court Contributor

The second episode incorporates several straight-out references to

Spoiler:
Robert Chambers
. I'm very keen on this, as both of the leads are amazing, and show is reminding me of Twin Peaks.

Sovereign Court

I think the same Jeff about the Twin Peaks. There isnt the awkward moments that Twin peaks has but defietely a similar feel. This is only two episodes in and I am totally hooked.


Yeah, the show went up several notches for me when I heard the Cthulhu Mythos references. I'm interested to see where they go with that. I doubt they'll bring in any significant supernatural elements, but if it went full on Cthulhu I'd love it.

Sovereign Court Contributor

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I have the feeling the show will stick to the "feel" of Chambers' King in Yellow - psychosis, hallucination, unreliable narration, imagery both beautiful and terrifying, rather than the larger themes of the Mythos.


So can anyone give me a run down of what the show is about? I have seen commercials for it but that really has not told me much.

Sovereign Court Contributor

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It's a noir detective tale set in rural Louisiana with a nihilistic brainy detective and a jocky veteran, with occult overtones.


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But they're not broadcasting an episode opposite the Superbowl, so we'll have to wait an extra week. Well, at least no one tried to mow my lawn; I mow my own lawn.


Call me crazy, but I don't think they were arguing about the lawn there...might be some subtext or something I may have to ponder later.

So don't call this a spoiler, because I'm not revealing anything from the show itself, but I picked up August Derleth's Mask of Cthulhu the other day and was reading the story "The Return of Hastur." The family involved has the surname Tuttle, which is the same as the bigwig reverend in the show who pushed for the new task force.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

There have been mentions of The Yellow King in the show...


I'm aware, I was just pointing out the possible Reverend Tuttle connection.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Ah. Yeah. Sorry. Thanks for that though! I've never read that particular story. I'll have to look for it.


Shadowborn wrote:

Call me crazy, but I don't think they were arguing about the lawn there...might be some subtext or something I may have to ponder later.

So don't call this a spoiler, because I'm not revealing anything from the show itself, but I picked up August Derleth's Mask of Cthulhu the other day and was reading the story "The Return of Hastur." The family involved has the surname Tuttle, which is the same as the bigwig reverend in the show who pushed for the new task force.

Having watched the most recent episode, it does appear that there may have been no little subtext to issue of lawn mowing.

I'm very impressed with this series. Is anyone out there a fan of The Killing? I read that Nic Pizzolatto, the creator of True Detective worked as a staff writer on that show. Having watched the american version of The Killing, you can really see the influence. (Like, in a good-if-not-entirely-user-friendly sort of way.)


That has to have been the most disappointing ending to a series/season I've seen in a long time.


How so Greg? I found it perfectly in keeping with the previous 7 episodes.


Hitdice wrote:
How so Greg? I found it perfectly in keeping with the previous 7 episodes.

Because:
it just left so many questions unanswered. Who were all those people on the video? Was the final killer even one of them? How were the Tuttles related to this? Were those them in the video? I know they were looking into Dora Lang's killing, but shouldn't bringing those in the video to justice be important too considering how deeply terrifying it was? Why did they have a second photo of that green house? Aside from the painting connection, which they didn't have until after they compared to two photos, why would they even that photo? How was the meth cook related to the final killer? Were they friends? Did they work together? I accepted a while ago that the Yellow King and Corcosa were not going to play a big part in the finale, but in the end it was all throw-away. Why use that? Why not use Satan worship? Why be that obtuse? He had to know that there would be people out there that had read or at least heard of the Yellow King. Why didn't Rust pick up on the literary reference? What about the black stars in Audrey's art work? The drawings she drew as a kid that got her in trouble. The posed dolls on her bedroom floor? They made a point of lingering on a photo in Dora Lang's mother's house showing Dora as a child in a mask in front of 5 horse riders in masks. If it was just the lawnmower man, was that just a throw away? Or is there more.

I realise we are supposed to assume that the Tuttles are prime movers here, but how can Marty and Rust even be remotely satisfied - and how can we even assume the story is over - if they are still out there doing what they are doing?

It was just deeply unsatisfying. He was "just" another serial killer.

I understand that the writer was probably wanting to write a character piece primarily, and while I appreciate well written characters (I loved Mcconaughey's 1997 Rust - amazing) I like stories. And as a story, this one just ended so flat to me. All build up and no pay off. Too many unanswered questions. Its like he drew out the story so he could have 8 episodes to show of the characters but in the end just didn't care about what he had built up.

At least thats what I saw. And I passed up the first episode of COSMOS for this (no PVR...)


Spoilered for the sake of those who do have a DVR:

Spoiler:
I'm not saying you should have to do homework to enjoy a TV show, but I think those questions would be answered by repeated viewings. I don't have the wherewithal to go through your whole list, but using the green house as an example, Rust takes the second photo on screen in episode 2 or 3.

As for Childress being just another serial killer, I guess that depends if you think that Rust's vision in the labyrinth was a hallucination, or something else. The two examples we have his hallucinations are vapor-trail psychedelic light effects, whereas the bird flock and the owl in the church in the same episode (episode 2 for sure this time), and the fourth dimensional view of of the universe at the center of the labyrinth didn't use that visual language, which I think should be considered in the King in Yellow/Carcosa/Weird Junk equation.


Spoilered again...

Spoiler:
I just saw Ep 1-3 on Fri night (missed them the first time through) and I completely missed the green house photograph. What was the context of him photographing it again? I can't remember the scene. I'll take that one back, then.

And since they talked about him still seeing things as they were on the way out to the house, I assumed the "wormhole" was Rust hallucinating.


. . . And again!

Spoiler:
I'm not 100% sure but I think he took it in episode 2 while Marty and his family were having a "lovely afternoon" with the in-laws. Immediately after taking it he goes and knocks on the door, but no one's home, iirc.

I wasn't trying to quibble with you over specific points, though. I just think the series requires a lot of viewing.

Sovereign Court

Finale:
I felt soemwhat like GregH did. It was good they finally caught up to childress but it would have been nice to see this go beyond it. Maybe one or two more episodes after Marty and Rust get out of the hospital. I feel these things tend to end one of two ways, either all loose ends are finished off, or the end is totally left open. It seems like they were attempting a hybrid here. Show started really strong but the ending was a little weak. I still really enjoyed the show and hope they are able to make a season 2 with a new subject and set of detectives.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

It'll be interesting to see how Season 2 plays out - I had thought that the subsequent seasons would till tie to each other in some way or shape, which would serve to provide more info on the central case in this season. In other words, I don't think we've seen the last of (or possibly even scratched the surface of) the King in Yellow conspiracy.

But I could be making that up entirely.

Sovereign Court

I hope you are not making it up Sebastian.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

I read the post-mortem interview with the creator, and looks like I may be more wrong than right. However, there is this:

"What’s the update on season two?

I am still fleshing it out. The basic idea: Hard women, bad men, and the secret occult history of the U.S. transportation system. I was well on my way in the writing but there’s been a lot noise and work around the end of the first season that got in the way."


Spoiler:
I'm not saying that Marty and Rust drove the Yellow King conspiracy out of existence (especially considering how Rust says that they haven't), but do a lot of you feel that the connection between Tuttle and Childress wasn't explained? 'Cause that's one of the criticisms I've seen on the interwebs (not here), and it seems to me that the only way the series could have been more obvious about it was by having Tuttle's retired maid in episode 7 hold up a visual aid like a family tree instead of just using dialogue.

Of course, given the newscasters voice-over, there's some evidence that the YK conspiracy has been totally outed.

Edit: Oops, spoilered just in case.


Spoiler:
If anyone is familiar with August Derleth's Cthulhu mythos stories, they'll know the name Tuttle being used in connection to the King in Yellow is not coincidence but a conscious choice. Looks like Marty and Rust had the family tree blocked out pretty well from their investigations. However, they're dealing with a family that holds a lot of political power. The testimony of a woman suffering from dementia isn't going to hold up against the reputation of a state senator and former governor. Depending on how much they borrow from Derleth's themes, the cult's roots could run deep and wide.


Some Rust Cohle/True Detective humor:

http://www.someecards.com/2014/02/28/true-detective-hbo-rust-cohle-matthew- mcconaughey-pickup-lines


Spoiler:

So many nods to Alan Moore's work in this excellent show, including Rust's final philosophical grace note, a straight lift from the Top Ten comic.

For those of you who think the finale was disappointingly mundane...go back and have a look at Childress's "father's" corpse, chained up in that hellish abbatoir. I think...I think that's Rust. That poor bastard. That's what you get when you interfere with hypertemporal evil avatars of Hastur.

Speaking of mythos tropes, I'm expecting Marty to go insane after repeated exposures to things that should not be seen.


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I for one though the ending was pretty good. it left lot to interpretation which I like although I understand it's not for everyone, especially in modern TV where everything is explained. I hope that he uses more mythos stuff in the next season it would be cool if he used each season to tell a story about characters and the whole series to tell a story about the yellow king.


I suspect the Yellow King plot thread might be one and done for this season. My guess would be next season we will get some thing else with nods to cosmic horror but not specifically the Yellow King. Lots of other material to draw inspiration from.

Dark Archive

Next season is supposed to deal with the US transportation system and the occult. That's the rumor - may have a female lead.

If this is true it could cover any number of strange things tied to the US Transportation System (highway system or rail system, don't know).

This could also be tied to the Freeway Killer(s) that killed over a 100 people in California during the 70's. Three unrelated killers (one had cohorts, but all three core killers had no contact with each other).

I know another killer who actually worked on some freeways was hiding bodies of his victims during their construction - which can also lead to some occult overtones (sacrifices for buildings or bridges).

or something else entirely....

Seems like a strange topic - Idk if that is still going to be the premise but that was the last I checked on season 2.

The above material is just me making guesses at the final potential content.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I'll see if i can pry any details out of the writer's cousin who works about 100' from me...

Sovereign Court

So season 2 is underway and the first episode is very mixed. I can really appreciate what they attempted though I think the showrunners stumbled a little in execution. The next few episodes will determine where this goes from here.

spoiler:

I think it was brilliant to try and develop characters before plot. Many folks were complaining about too many stories to follow. I found this odd since really there are only four characters of note so far. I like the chance to tie the story together on my own, and that is exactly what the writers are allowing. I understand that is a departure from traditional screenwriting so I understand the criticism. There certainly were a few spots I feel the writers stumbled and criticism is due.

I understand that Vaughn and Ferrel are the star power here, but I think Mcadams and Kitsch did an excellent job with their characters. McAdams character Bezzerdies is interesting because she certainly has her own baggage but tends to questions the morality of those around her. It will be interesting when that lens is finally turned inwards. Kitsch is playing the boyscout with PTSD and provides an interesting contrast to the other officers. Kitsch's character Woodrugh's rage has turned inward and his journey will be interesting.

None of these ideas are exactly original, but I think TD has a chance to do something fresh with them. Well, then there is Ray...I think they really horsed Ferrel's character and his scenes have some of the worst writing yet on the show. Ray is typical detective cliche wrapped up in one big let down. I am hoping they stray far from the beaten path with Ray but I dont have my hopes up. If anything Bezzerdies will have a fun time working with Ray.

I'm curious about Vaughn's character Semyon. There is an interesting dynamic between him and his wife played by Reilly. I look forward to seeing that fleshed out more. Vaughn though really didnt show any range as crime boss Semyon. I mean even when he lost his cool and shattered his glass he didnt look terribly upset about it. In the much derided bar scene he seems to be trying to console his associate Ray and once again it felt flat. Even though I eye-rolled through Ferrel's characters development, at least Ferrel is doing the best with what he has to work with. I am hoping Vaughn isnt going to mope his way through this season.

Right now I see highs and lows and I am hoping it pays off ahead. The season seems to be more focused on the characters themselves than the plot and I think that is of most interest. A questionable start with potential for a big pay off. I'm cautiously optimistic about the rest of the season.

Dark Archive

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MMCJawa wrote:
I suspect the Yellow King plot thread might be one and done for this season. My guess would be next season we will get some thing else with nods to cosmic horror but not specifically the Yellow King. Lots of other material to draw inspiration from.

Paizo.com devoured my post, bleah..

I think this is going to be tied to a sex-cult, possibly mythos related. Possibly Shub-Niggurath. Soon there will be whispers around the water cooler about who or what is the Dark Goat of the Wood with a Thousand Young, just like they did with the Yellow King....maybe not, but possibly. Lemme esplain...

Spoiler:
This thing reads like a Delta Green op, but instead of federal agents we have a city cop (the city is supposed to be much like the City of Vernon near LA), Sheriff and CHP and an underworld criminal - so they have all the research points covered.

So my theory on the Shub-Niggurath cult angle -
Each of the characters have a sex/relationship issue - Ani, can't be or stay in a relationship. Ray doesn't want one anymore and shows no interest. Also, he was "trying" to have a kid when the incident with his wife occurred. The CHP guy has some functional issues and Semyon is trying IVF treatments to have a kid...more on him in a moment. So I think it could be a factor or underlying theme with the GOO.

The crime and the icon plus some peripheral players (the Russians) made me think of the Skoptsi -as written up for Delta Green but could be based off of the real thing, and then the black idol in the car with Caspere made me again think of the Skoptsi and their black icons (and their search for them/importance). So Caspere may have been part of this cult and had his bits and pieces removed because in some way he offended the cult or put a resource at risk. Maybe a track of land? Maybe he found an icon?

Santa Muerte can also be considered an avatar of the Dark Goat - all those found bodies in the field with markers in the opening shot. Missing women, and no doubt they may play up missing children/adoptions from Russia. So this can go a 100 ways. Or maybe a 1000 - Young.

The monk's name who started the Skoptsi - Semyon. Maybe a coincidence with our underworld character in TD2, but the whole thing seems suspect.

Skoptsi/Shub-Niggurath FTW. I'm sticking with that theory until at least the next episode.

So.....how much xp do I get for cracking this thing wide open?
Anyone?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

/me hands you 10xp

Hhonestly, you're a lot more useful in your theory than getting anything useful out of Nic Pizzalotto's cousin (who now works next to me oddly). He needs to cozy up to the kinfolks and get us some inside info...

I need to binge season 1 as well to refresh my memory.

Dark Archive

Thank you archmagi1, now I only need to crack 99 more story plots before I can go up a level. Assuming fast track...


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Auxmaulous wrote:

.... Good stuff

*...

I missed the idol in the car. Gonna have to go back and watch. Like your theory!


Seems like scarification might be symbolic/important in this one.

Spoiler:
You've got the scarring on the CHP officer, then they had that shot of the waitress in the bar, that had an ugly one around her eye that got a nice highlight in the shot of her serving Colin Farrel. Then there's the city manager with his eyes burned out.

That said, I wasn't knocked out by the first episode. There's a lot missing, visually and script-wise, compared to Season 1.


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I read some reviews before I saw the season premier, and was completely unconfused when I watched it, despite having heard only that it was too fragmented and nihilistic for the human consciousness to comprehend. This one has me just as intrigued as the first did, but I think it's important to remember how little the first season premier (that is, just the first hour of season 1) defined. I think the lackluster reviews are a result of reviewers comparing the emotional-closure-gestalt-experience of having seen the entire first season with the vast, open-ended WTF?! of having watched only the first episode of either.


it was a lot slower start, that is for sure.

As for theories, we get a lot of large overview shots of the highway grid. I am wondering if the layout of the roads is suppose to be some sort of occult symbol? And if murdering the major force behind rail project isn't some attempt to preserve the symbol?

As for mythos connections...I think its going to be super super lightly touched upon. I don't expect any name check of any mythos dieties, although I would love to be surprised.

Sovereign Court

I just can't get into it. I don't know why.


Hama wrote:
I just can't get into it. I don't know why.

This season or the show in general?


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MMCJawa wrote:

it was a lot slower start, that is for sure.

As for theories, we get a lot of large overview shots of the highway grid. I am wondering if the layout of the roads is suppose to be some sort of occult symbol?

Ah, like the M25 London orbital motorway then? I hadn't realized Crowley had made it over to the States. :)

Sovereign Court

MMCJawa wrote:
Hama wrote:
I just can't get into it. I don't know why.
This season or the show in general?

Tried watching the first season. Couldn't make it past episode 3.

Sovereign Court

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Damn

spoiler:
Dont see how Velcoro is going to make it outta that one


Definitely an improvement over last episode.

RE: Damn:
I don't he's going to. Maybe Velcoro is Dave Holden, and Bezzerides is Deckard in this story. (Not that I think any androids are going to pop up.) It'll definitely motivate Bezzerides and Woodrugh to solve this before they're next, and it'll make it personal for Semyon (not that he needed more motivation than losing his millions and future bequeathance.)

Based on the body in the morgue, I think...

Spoiler:
Auxmaulous is right about the Skoptsy connection.

Woodrugh:
I don't think Woodrugh has PTSD so much as whatever happened to him in the Gulf (I'm guessing near-death combat situations for the mercenary/contractor company) has unearthed his latent homosexuality. Not that he's figured it out yet, which is why he thinks he's impotent. He seemed to need to disclose the gay guy making a pass at him in front of the other cop, so that he could then make a performance of not being into it.


Pan wrote:
Damn ** spoiler omitted **

I wasn't expecting that. On the other hand, at this point I don't have any actual actual care or emotional investment in that particular character, so if I was suppose to feel anything more than "huh" than the show has failed in that regard.

Sovereign Court

spoiler:
Rumor has it Velcoro will live because of the "scenes from next week" spoilerage at the end. Guess we will ait and see. Bulletproof vest stop a 12 gauge shot at point blnak like that?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Pan wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

SPOILER:
If it's a solid slug and not coated in teflon (which in the case of a shotgun slug would be kinda stupid)? Maybe. but you're still looking at the pure kinetic force of the impact possibly breaking a few ribs and causing some internal damage.

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OR

spoiler:

Its loaded with rock salt, or some sort of similar non lethal ordinance

Dark Archive

Well, some things were explained and...

Spoiler:
It was an raven mask next to Caspere's body, not an idol.

And I wonder if the animal masks on Caspere's wall have any connection to the criminal cult associated with the Yellow King in TD season 1?

So - some other weird conspiracy related facts and info for those inquiring minds that want to know.
The Red Dragon Detective agency realized last night that the town of Guerneville is right next to Monte Rio, which is where something really nutty occurs.
Again, I ask you to delve into the madness at your own risk.

Sovereign Court

spoiler:
My guess is its not rock salt nor is it a slug in the shotgun. If you remember casper had his groin shot out and im guessing this is the same 12 gauge shotgun. If velcoro makes it has to be a vest.

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