And don't forget magic. The Ranger can make magic items with little to no problem, and use many important wands and the like. Not so our doughty adventurer.
==Aelryinth
Technically Minor Magic gives us a Caster Level so we *could* make magic items. UMD gets us wand use if we really care for it.
Eh, Instant enemy you have to use on every single target you fight (that doesn't happen to be in your original group) to get an average of 1 point higher bonus than the fighter's weapon training for his main weapon (and you have Duelist gloves to boost that further). And then there's sneak attack on top of that.
Favored Enemy is a +10 boost as opposed to the Fighter's +5 with a specific weapon group.
Favored Enemy also scales better/faster. +4 at 5th level as opposed to +1.
I'm aware of the UMD and Caster level. The problem is he has no spells on his spell list. So he can't use CLW wands at level 1, Barkskin wands, etc, without having to invest ranks in UMD.
So, if he wants to craft wondrous items, he has to invest in CWI, blow a talent on Minor Magic (exactly like spending a feat on Magical Artisan), AND spend ranks on UMD, in addition to spending points on Spellcraft, which is not a class skill.
1. You can craft wondrous items by increasing the DC by 5 for every required spell you don't know.
2. Either with Minor magic or master craftsman an adventurer qualifies for craft wondrous item. If she goes the spellcraft route, it would behoove her to spend some skill boosting feats on it (not that she needs to because you can take 10 on the craft check)
3. Crafting is dumb
4. Rogue talents do not equal feats. The best rogue talents are feats.
The funny thing is that it wouldn't make that poor of a rogue even in armor; the reason armor is (mainly) bad for rogues is the armor check penalty, for which he gets Armor Training, and evasion, which the fighter can already tank failed reflex saves so he doesn't need evasion as such.If the fighter doesn't need Reflex, then rangers don't need it, either.
Yet, the Ranger has it, and has both healing magic and Res/Prot from energy to recover from and ward against the stuff needing evasion saves even if he fails them.
So, yes, the fighter needs Reflex saves. Anything which reduces the damage he takes is A Good Thing. Indeed, damage mitigation is ALL he has going for him, since he has no form of self-healing.
If you are arguing the Adventurer is worse than the ranger, that's fine.
The adventurer is at least comparable to the ranger which is a great leap forward for mundane classes.
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Inspired by Marthkus, I have decided to make an Oriental version of his Adventurer, here's what it looks like up to level 10
"Shinobi"
Hit Die: d10Level BAB FORT REF WILL
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Bonus Feat,Poison use, sneak attack +1d62nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Bonus Feat, Bravery, Ki pool, ninja trick
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Armor Training, No trace +1, sneak attack +2d6
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Bonus Feat, Ninja trick, uncanny dodge
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Weapon Training, Sneak attack +3d6
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Bonus Feat, Light steps, ninja trick, no trace +2
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Armor Training, Sneak attack +4d6
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Bonus Feat,Improved uncanny dodge, ninja trick
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Weapon Training, No trace +3, sneak attack +5d6
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Bonus Feat, Master tricks, ninja trick
I dig it. I might roll up a "Shinobi" later.
I already know how to make naruto ninjas
Just gestalt fighter, ninja, oracle or sorcerer, wizard, cleric or druid, and alchemist.
Rock Lee is just someone with s@@* mental stats.
Madara is just someone who rolled for stats at home and got to a really high level.
There isn't a lot of magical gear in Naruto...
Do note, I said evasion. The reflex save is welcome! I just meant that losing evasion from wearing heavier armor doesn't set him back much, if he wants to go with a celestial mithral plate instead of mithral chainshirt.The funny thing is that it wouldn't make that poor of a rogue even in armor; the reason armor is (mainly) bad for rogues is the armor check penalty, for which he gets Armor Training, and evasion, which the fighter can already tank failed reflex saves so he doesn't need evasion as such.If the fighter doesn't need Reflex, then rangers don't need it, either.
Yet, the Ranger has it, and has both healing magic and Res/Prot from energy to recover from and ward against the stuff needing evasion saves even if he fails them.
So, yes, the fighter needs Reflex saves. Anything which reduces the damage he takes is A Good Thing. Indeed, damage mitigation is ALL he has going for him, since he has no form of self-healing.
==Aelryinth
Eh since the fighter starts moving faster in heavier armor, I would probably say that they use evasion in armor they can move full speed in.
That's how I would RAI it at least.
Poor monks :(
Maybe I should just make them part of the adventurer class and remove my other house rule.
Shame that monks wouldn't fit the flavor at all :/
Poor monks :(
Give them a Ki Pounce and you've married their "stand still and attack a lot" and "move really fast" clashing abilities into one useful thing
Maybe I should just make them part of the adventurer class and remove my other house rule. Shame that monks wouldn't fit the flavor at all :/
If I were to build a "Monk" with your Adventurer...
ARCHETYPE
-Brawler Fighter
-Acrobat Rogue
FEAT
-Ki Pool (like a Ninja! Works off of WIS)
The point I am making is that certain fighter concepts or rogue concepts simply do not make the most of this combination of classes.I don't really care that they don't make the most out of the option.
And that, Marthkus, is why you are not so good at games design. You want to make one build work for a class and do not care about the rest, while I'm interested in making all builds work for a class.
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Armoured tank is a poor rogue, so your best bet is a the lightly-armoured option.
Actually the armored tank is greatly improved with the Adventurer gestalt. If the Adventurer is ignored in a melee he can move into a flanking position and hit for massive sneak attack damage. If you have two armored adventurers they need to be dealt with immediatly before they flank and SA their targets to death.
(Improved) Evasion and Good REF means that the Tank becomes much more resilient to blast effects. Uncanny dodge means the Tank can actually tangle with sneak attackers without fearing a quick death.
Talents like Positioning Attack n' Fast Getaway allow armored tanks to quickly get into better positions to defend their comrades.
Using talents to access Ninja Tricks and a Ki Pool let your tank see in the dark, reduce a foe's str/dex, throw choking bombs, turn invisible, block their ability to make opportunity attacks, create mirror images, and so on.
An armored Adventurer is more durable, mobile, and hits harder than just an armored fighter. To prevent the THREAT of a sneak attack, an armored Adventure must get engaged by the foe.
The point I am making is that certain fighter concepts or rogue concepts simply do not make the most of this combination of classes.I don't really care that they don't make the most out of the option.And that, Marthkus, is why you are not so good at games design. You want to make one build work for a class and do not care about the rest, while I'm interested in making all builds work for a class.
I'm not a designer though. I'm someone fielding a house-rule to fix a couple broken house-rules.
So far I'm getting:
1. It's not overpowered
2. Some concepts do not make the most of the class features
These aren't problems.
The point I am making is that certain fighter concepts or rogue concepts simply do not make the most of this combination of classes.I don't really care that they don't make the most out of the option.And that, Marthkus, is why you are not so good at games design. You want to make one build work for a class and do not care about the rest, while I'm interested in making all builds work for a class.
I'm not a designer though. I'm someone fielding a house-rule to fix a couple broken house-rules.
So far I'm getting:
1. It's not overpowered
2. Some concepts do not make the most of the class features
These aren't problems.
That's cool. I'm probably way too much of a perfectionist!
With the knifemaster and brawler archetypes this adventurer would be tough, I guess. Perhaps I'll try a build later.
Would a sai count as knife? If so you could add a level of monk somewhere and get flurry.