Demogorgon Converted to new Demon Lords rules from Dragon 357


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Hi guys,

Further to the new Bestiary 4 and the Wrath of the Righteous Adventure Path, I decided to include Demogorgon, an all-time classic, to the Demon Lords roster.

I took the 3.5 stats published in Dragon #357 written by James Jacobs and tried my best to figure out the rules used to built the current lords and apply them to Demogorgon.

The result is this (see past the stats for rules observations):

---Apologies if I break some copyrights rules, just delete the post---

Demon Lord, Demogorgon (Prince of Demons)

The demon towers a full eighteen feet in height, his body at once sinuous like that of a snake and powerful like that of a great ape. Two baleful baboon heads leer from atop his lumbering shoulders, from which writhe two long tentacles. His lower torso is saurian, like some great reptile with an immense forked tail. The air itself around his frame seems to ripple with fear from his proximity.

DEMOGORGON - CR 30

Domains: Chaos, Evil, Magic, Water
Aura demonic command (120 ft., DC 39), frightful presence (120 ft., DC 39), unholy aura (DC 29)

CE Huge outsider (aquatic, chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar)
Init +15/-5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., detect good, detect law, true seeing; Perception +56

DEFENSE

AC 51, touch 23, flat-footed 36 (-2 size, +11 Dex, +24 natural, +4 deflection, +4 armor)
hp 869 (37d10+666); regeneration 30 (deific or mythic)
Fort +42, Ref +27, Will +34
Defensive Abilities Abyssal resurrection, freedom of movement; DR 20/cold iron, good and epic; Immune ability damage and drain, bleed, charm and compulsion effects, death effects, electricity, energy drain, petrification, poison; Resist acid 30, cold 30, fire 30; SR 41

OFFENSE

Speed 50 ft., fly 60 ft. (good), swim 50 ft.
Melee 2 tentacles +58 (1d8+21/19-20 plus rot), 2 bites +56 (2d6+13), 1 tail slap +56 (2d6+13/19-20 plus energy drain)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks rot, energy drain, dual action, gaze, symbol
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 30th; concentration +41)
Constant - detect good, detect law, freedom of movement, greater magic fang, tongues, fly, unholy aura (DC 29)
At will - astral projection, blasphemy (DC 28), charm monster (DC 25), desecrate, greater dispel magic, greater teleport, plane shift (DC 26), project image (DC 28), telekinesis (DC 26), shapechange, unhallow, unholy blight (DC 25)
3/day - gate, heal, power word stun (DC 29), quickened greater dispel magic, quickened feeblemind (DC 26), summon demons (swift action)
1/day - dominate monster (DC 30), symbol of death (DC 29), symbol of fear (DC 27), symbol of Insanity (DC 29), Symbol of Pain (DC 26), symbol of persuasion (DC 27), symbol of sleep (DC 26), symbol of stunning (DC 28), symbol of weakness (DC 28), time stop, weird (DC 30)

STATISTICS

Str 42, Dex 32, Con 46, Int 30, Wis 26, Cha 32
Base Atk +37; CMB +55 (+59 bull rush, +59 sunder), CMD +76 (+78 vs. bull rush, +78 vs. sunder)
Feats Awesome Blow, Combat Reflexes, Critical Focus, Greater Bull Rush, Greater Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (tentacles, tail), Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Multiattack, Power Attack (-10/+20), Quicken Spell-Like Ability (greater dispel magic, feeblemind), Staggering Critical (DC 47), Stunning Critical (DC 47)
Skills Acrobatics +51, Bluff +51, Diplomacy +51, Disguise +48, Fly +51, Heal +45, Intimidate +48, Knowledge (Arcana) +47, Knowledge (Engineering) +47, Knowledge (Planes) +50, Knowledge (Religion) +50, Perception +56, Sense Motive +48, Spellcraft +47, Stealth +51, Swim +56, Use Magic Device +51; Racial Modifiers +8 Perception
Languages Abyssal, Aquan, Infernal, Common, Celestial, Draconic, tongues, telepathy 300'
SQ amphibious, item master

ECOLOGY

Environment any (Abyss)
Organization solitary (unique)
Treasure triple

SPECIAL ABILITIES

Aura of Demonic Command (Su) As the Prince of Demons, Demogorgon exude an aura of demonic command to a radius of 120 feet. With a few exceptions, no demons within this area can take any action without Demogorgon's permission. Demogorgon reflexively grants permission to act on the demon's turn. An affected demon in the area must make a DC 39 Will save whenever he attempts any action that Demogorgon does not permit. Success indicates that he may take the action, while failure means the demon not only loses the action but also takes 2d6 points of Charisma damage as Demogorgon's wrath tears into his mind. Demons within the area that Demogorgon is not aware of may act as they will. Demon lords are not affected by Demogorgon's aura of Demonic Command. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Dual Action (Ex) Demogorgon, having two heads with distinct intelligences and personalities, can take two rounds' worth of actions in any given round, as if he were two creatures. This ability functions as the Dual Initiative universal monster rule (q.v.).

Gaze (Su) Each of Demogorgon's heads has its own gaze attack. Any creature within 30 feet of the demon lord must make two successful DC 39 Will saving throws each round at the beginning of its turn, the first save against Demogorgon's beguiling gaze and the second one against his insanity gaze. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Demogorgon can actively target a foes with his beguiling gaze and insanity gaze, in which case each gaze requires a standard action to activate. As a standard action, he may lock the gazes of both heads on a single target and use a special hypnosis effect. He cannot use his hypnosis gaze during the same round in which he uses his beguiling gaze, his insanity gaze, or both.

Beguiling Gaze: The gaze attack of Aameul, Demogorgon's left head, is the equivalent of a charm monster spell.

Insanity Gaze: The gaze attack of Hethradiah, Demogorgon's right head, is the equivalent of an insanity spell.

Hypnosis Gaze: Only a target with 15 Hit Dice or more is allowed a save to avoid the gaze of both Demogorgon's heads. Those who succomb to this gaze are affected as though by a hypnosis spell.

Energy Drain (Su) Any living creature hit by Demogorgon's tail slap gains 1d6 negative levels. For each negative level bestowed, Demogorgon heals 5 points of damage. If the amount of healing is more than the damage he has taken, he gains any excess as temporary hit points. A DC 46 Fortitude save removes these negative levels. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Item Master (Ex) Demogorgon can use any magic item, even spell completion items such as wands or scrolls. He can also create any magic item or construct as though he had the necessary feats and prerequisite spells or other requirements.

Mage Armor (Su) Demogorgon is constantly surrounded by an aura of force that provides armor protection identical to a mage armor spell that cannot be dispelled.

Rot (Su) Any living creature touched by Demogorgon's tentacle must succeed on a DC 46 Fortitude save or its flesh and bones rot away. The creature takes 1d8 points of Constitution damage immediately and 2 points of Constitution damage every hour thereafter until it dies or a remove disease is cast. This spell stops further damage only if the caster makes a DC 30 Caster Level check. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Symbol (Sp) Demogorgon may cast any symbol spell once per day as a spell-like ability.

*********************

Now a couple of observations.

CR 30: I'm not certain Demogorgon with these stats would be CR 30 as the dual action is really really badass and maybe CR 33 as Mr. Jacobs put it was more like it although I did not want to break the CR cap set by Paizo.

Domains: made them up but seemed logical unless someone found real domains for him somewhere.

AC 51: readjusted the AC to Paizo standards for CR 30 creature. It should be 48, but Baba Yaga has 51, so why not, he's THE Demon Prince after all.

Saves: based on the way Nocticula was built with base Fort +12, Ref +20 and Will +20 +stat bonus +4 for unholy aura, but changed the +20 to Fort instead and put the +12 base to Ref

Melee: includes greater magic fang. I was not sure how to apply the primary vs secondary attack since the Demon Lord Xoveron was written with all of its attacks as primary with full STR bonus. Took the conservative approach as written in Dragon 357.

Spell-like abilities: taken from Dragon 357 and updated with what I saw for the current demon lords.

Stats: as Dragon 357 (same goes for HD 37d10 (5.5 average) plus 666 CON bonus)

Feats: took some of my liking and some from Dragon 357, gave a total of 17 like Nocticula.

Skills: took the same rule as Nocticula which is HD (36 in her case, 37 form Demogorgon) + stat bonus +3 if class (took same class skills as Nocticula).

All special abilities exactly as Dragon 357.

CMD: Someone tell me how the current demon lords end up with more than 80 for CMD, I have not figured that one out. Demogorgon CMD was calculated as per the basic rules.

So that's it. Let me know what you think so I can make the most perfect and Paizo compliant rules possible.

Mr. Jacob, I would be honored if you were to let me know what you think of these stat blocks assuming they do not get deleted!

Cheers!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I haven't revised the entire statblock, but I can answer your questions.

- Saves: check the table at the end of the Bestiary, and extrapolate from there.

- Melee: natural attacks are categorized as primary and secondary. Tentacles and tail slap are secondary (-5 to attack, 1/2 Str to damage), bite is primary (full attack, Str to damage). Again, check the table at the end of the Bestiary.

- Feats: At 37 HD, Demogorgon should have 19 feats (one at every odd level)

- Skills: To make it easier, you can select a number of skills equal to Demogorgon's Int modifier plus 6. That way, you can max them (outsiders get int + 6 skill ranks per HD).

- CMD: Remember that some bonuses are added to this value. From the CRB: "A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD". Demon lords always have +4 deflection from unholy aura, and some profane bonus (usually +10).

Hope this helps.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Just off hand I'd say raise his initiative. That said, with his dual argumentative nature I'm not sure that's appropriate from an RP sense, although certainly good gamewise.

Either way, since I'm running a Savage Tide game after Wrath is done I have to say, good timing on this.


Thanks for the comments.
I'll review our friend tonight after work and see if I can tweak him a little.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

They generally have a hard 30 on straight CR, but mythic tiers can raise it as high as 35. Plus... it's Demogorgon. So, a bit extra from the official norm is okay by me.


Love your conversion.

Might want to specify weather the rot is a disease or a curse for clarity.


very nice work

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

agreed on the rot. Just like Nocticula can charm the uncharmable, Demogorgon should be able to rot those immune to disease.

I'd also have his hypnosis dual gaze able to affect those otherwise immune to compulsions.

Note his save DC's are much less then Nocticula because his Charisma is lower. Perhaps up it some? It won't affect much.

He's also one of the most intelligent of the Demon Lords, so I'd consider boosting his Int. That, or a constant +4 Improved Aid Another as his heads aid one another on Int checks.

==Aelryinth


I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to rut anyone he wants but it should be clear sense cure disease can fix it people might think its a disease.


Nocticula does not just bypass the immunity. She strips it away assuming the victim fails a fort save.


I'm a bit late on the replies, but thanks for the nice and constructive comments.

I've added +2 on CHA for a total of 34 just to give a nice looking 40 DC on some abilities. Simply add +1 to all CHA-based abilities and spell-like abilities. This leaves Nocticula as the top CHA-based badass, she the first Succubi after all. The CON-based saves are already awesome at 46 (3 higher than Nocticula) I might raise Int, but that will involve a lot of skills recalculation. Although I do love the idea of a +4 aid another by the other head.

For the rot, the Dragon 357 clearly mentions that remove disease with a caster lv check of 30 can remove the rot, but it would be nice for that uber ability to indeed affect creatures immune to diseases. I might add something to that effect.

I guess at this point, it just a matter of flavor, depending how badass you want this Demon Prince to be.


Abhremoch wrote:

I'm a bit late on the replies, but thanks for the nice and constructive comments.

I've added +2 on CHA for a total of 34 just to give a nice looking 40 DC on some abilities. Simply add +1 to all CHA-based abilities and spell-like abilities. This leaves Nocticula as the top CHA-based badass, she the first Succubi after all. The CON-based saves are already awesome at 46 (3 higher than Nocticula) I might raise Int, but that will involve a lot of skills recalculation. Although I do love the idea of a +4 aid another by the other head.

For the rot, the Dragon 357 clearly mentions that remove disease with a caster lv check of 30 can remove the rot, but it would be nice for that uber ability to indeed affect creatures immune to diseases. I might add something to that effect.

I guess at this point, it just a matter of flavor, depending how badass you want this Demon Prince to be.

Thanks for the work. If I ever use Demogorgon I will likely use this version. I will likely not let it bypass immunity to diseases though, but the other changes I will likely use.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

As a test, you should have this fight orcus and see how the battles shake out.


So, spoilers for anyone who is a fan of the works of R.A. Salvatore.

I recently found out that in one of the latest Drizzt books,

Spoiler:
Drizzt fights and kills Demogoron after the Prince of Demons is accidentally summoned to the material plane. Being the petty hater that I am, this filled me with guttural, visceral rage the likes of which spawns demons in the abyss. So I took the pathfinder statblock for Drizzt from another thread in this forum that I'm too lazy to look up right now, and this statblock for Old Monkey-Heads, and ran combat. Lasted one round, Drizzt failed his save against Rot both times and the con damage he took reduced his hit points, which weren't that stellar to begin with, enough that DG's damage from one full attack was enough to kill him. I like that result a lot more than what I understand happened in the novel, to say the least.


RA salvatore is a hack, worse even than the likes of moorcock... never even came up with anything original to harp on forever.


Honestly at this point I think he's deliberately trolling the haters such as myself.


Possibly, I have read precisely one of his books and never wanted to read more.


I wanted to borrow one from my aunt a few years ago because it had Obould Many-Arrows in it and Obould is awesome.

She kept on gifting the damn things to me for years after that and they got progressively worse.

Scarab Sages

Abhremoch wrote:
For the rot, the Dragon 357 clearly mentions that remove disease with a caster lv check of 30 can remove the rot, but it would be nice for that uber ability to indeed affect creatures immune to diseases. I might add something to that effect.

When running Age of Worms, I did something similar.

One of the players admitted he knew the basic theme of the campaign, and therefore who the eventual BBEG and related minions were.
No shenanigans implied, as we both bought Dungeon regularly, and had both planned to run it someday.

However, he was intending to play a paladin, which I was rather less happy with, since it would mean his PC having an ability to effectively ignore the special attacks of half the major creatures in the campaign, from chapter 3 onward. And to do so, with that inside knowledge, wasn't fair on the campaign or other players.

But rather than forbid it, we agreed to redefine the paladin disease immunity, so that rather than diseases flat out failing to latch onto him, his divine boon flushed his body of disease every round, with effects similar to remove disease spell, with a caster level equal to his paladin level.

For normal diseases, this was still effective immunity, since he was taking 20 on the caster level check before the (hours, days) incubation period expired.

But for anything more virulent, such as from a quasi-deity or source with divine levels, diseases that specifically resist curative magic (as in the Demogorgon example), or infestations with an incubation or fatal period measured in rounds, he would need to roll those free action caster level checks and hope.

In the end, it proved a workable compromise. He got to be the holy warrior who was super resistant to diseases, without utterly trivialising important encounters, and allowed for some dramatic last-minute recoveries and amusing outcomes.


Just thought I'd mention it but Dungeon Mag #150 (Two issues after its sister magazine Dragon #357) had a beefed up version of Demogorgon for the epic conclusion of that adventure path.

Might want to peruse it to see if they modified or "Fixed" something they were not happy with in the early printing. I know James had a heavy hand in writing that particular AP, also I recall Big D having a higher CR, around 33-35 something.

Abhremoch wrote:
Domains: Chaos, Evil, Magic, Water

His offical Domains that I know of were: Chaos, Corruption, Demonic, and Evil. But water would definitely be on my personal list seeing as that is suppose to be exactly 1/2 his shtick.

Also thank you(!) for the write up regardless. Aameul/Hethradiah, is one of my favourite Demon Lords. I am very happy to have these stats.

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