Hey guys,
So I'm playing a campaign right now (Legacy of Fire) and am nearing the end of book 1, but recently decided I wanted to make my character religious towards Cayden Cailean, find a way to grant a wish, turn him into a Solar Angel and then venture onto the Test of the Starstone.
However, my DM won't allow any of this and I feel my character is going to become pretty boring if I can't have something like this to work towards.
I'm a Two Weapon Warrior who plans to use two Bastard swords (TWW allows you to use any sized weapon as a light handed weapon for off hand, providing it's one handed) that will be modded with Speed, Defense, Thundering and Shocking Burst for my primary, and Speed, Defense and Brilliant Energy for my Off Hand.
I'm a Half-ling who was recently turned into a Were Leopard, but due to thinking this was bad, failing my will save and killing the strongest defender in the group with one full attack (did something like 50 damage to the Cleric who was the only healer in the party), I took a belladonna without even knowing it could kill my character. My character was cured straight away though.
However, we sold a punching dagger that can turn you into a Were creature again if you score a Critical hit with it, so I plan to buy it back and because there's an overpowered Zen Archer, Bare handed fighting Monk in our team, the DM's allowing me to boost my stats up by turning into a self aware Were-creature. I'm a good character, so I'm going to make my Were-character good, and supposedly it will allow me to deal 2D8+8 on each weapon when I have two Bastard Swords.
So, I have all of this going on right now, but really would like to make my Half-ling become a god (or at the very least a Celestial), so I can make an example to the world to show that Half-ling's are good fighters.
Only downer is my DM is saying you can't change form/shape or race with a Wish, and because the Test of the Starstone isn't in the Core Pathfinder book (or APG), he's not allowing me to follow this path.
Is there a way around this at all?
Find an even more indulgent GM.
Find an even more indulgent GM.
Lol, not gonna happen. I only play with him and 2 others who I knew from school.
I dunno, the way I see it is he either can't be bothered to put the work in for it, or he just likes sticking by the rules for almost everything, and not being very creative himself.
If I were DM'ing, I'd go by every rule that's needed, but in terms of character development I'd use the Pathfinder Core book (and APG) more like guidelines, and if somebody wanted to play as an Angel, if they put the work in to dumb the creature down into playable form, I'd allow it. Naturally I don't think everything should be allowed, but as long as it's not too overpowering with the rest of the group (depending on what they've done with the build and dumbed down), I'd allow it.
I don't really see a problem with making my character pursue the idea of becoming a god, and if I'm to go through the Test of the Starstone, I'd need to be as powerful as an angel most likely, and not only that, I'd have said it's more believable for an angel to become a god, than it is for a human to become a god.
To ascend to godhood is beyond the scope of the game- even the test of starstone is something only epic level characters would have a chance of pulling off.
Really? I thought there weren't many boundaries for what a character aims to achieve. Just difficulty.
I said to him the only other thing I can think of is trying to become a King, but that's somewhat boring and seen all of the time.
Any suggestions of what I could aim to achieve instead, that's of Awesome Status and actually achievable?
My main argument with him on this was if a drunken Cayden can do it, then a determined Half-ling should be able to succeed. :/
I don't even know what to say.....the game you play in is already off the rails from the sounds of it (which is fine if y'all are having fun), so I don't see the harm in you becoming a god....though the whole angel reasoning is weird. I don't think you can just wish to become an exemplar of all that is good and holy. In fact, I would think you would probably be hunted down and killed for trying to become an angel when you're not one to begin with....
As two yer weapons....Speed doesn't stack. You can't have it on two weapons and get two extra attacks. Also, each of those are already +8 on total mods, so at most they could be +2 swords, which really limits how much use you'll have from the Defender enhancement.
Really, from the sounds of it, your DM already lets you guys pretty much get away with murder from a breaking the rules standpoint, I would pretty much go along with whatever he says considering how ridiculous things already seem.
My suggestion is to have the goal of taking the starstone test in the RP aspect of your character. Then play the adventure path as written and run by your DM. Once you complete book six then you can revisit your end game goal and either the DM will run your characters more after the path is over... or the game will end and you can write the last chapter of your character however you want.
Because even if you take the test and win... you are done. You cannot be a player with a god character and still be playing in anything close to Pathfinder.
I don't even know what to say.....the game you play in is already off the rails from the sounds of it (which is fine if y'all are having fun), so I don't see the harm in you becoming a god....though the whole angel reasoning is weird. I don't think you can just wish to become an exemplar of all that is good and holy. In fact, I would think you would probably be hunted down and killed for trying to become an angel when you're not one to begin with....
As two yer weapons....Speed doesn't stack. You can't have it on two weapons and get two extra attacks. Also, each of those are already +8 on total mods, so at most they could be +2 swords, which really limits how much use you'll have from the Defender enhancement.
Really, from the sounds of it, your DM already lets you guys pretty much get away with murder from a breaking the rules standpoint, I would pretty much go along with whatever he says considering how ridiculous things already seem.
Really? What makes the current campaign so different? Is it just for the fact he's allowing me to become a Were-Leopard as well as allowing a mental Zen Archer Monk who has no weaknesses other than AC? Everything drops by the time anyone even reaches them, and my DM said he wanted that character to die as it's so overpowered.
The Monk is a douché who keeps talking about selling my character off to Slavers (and I killed his brother unwillingly by turning into a Were-Creature), and he kicked me out of a room before that, so I wanted to Coup De Grace his character in his sleep, or kill him when I turn into a Were-Leopard, but my character is Neutral Good so until he actually tries to sell me off, I'm gonna have to put up with it. Though, if I do kill his character he would more than likely go ballistic as a player, like completely off the wall, so I've just been taking all of his rubbish, and when he really needs help, I won't act. I'll just watch and smile. :p
He cares for nobody in the group and mocks everyone, so nobody would be sad to see him go at the minute. ;)
Also, I agree about allowing me to become a God, but then I suppose I would as it was my idea. As for the Angel idea, do you mean other angels would come and kill me because of wanting to be one, or something else entirely? I just really want to become one for some reason. For a start, it would give me an insane boost to what my character should be capable of at level 20.
As for my weapons, thanks for pointing that out. I guess I'll just take speed out entirely and have an unused +1 for my primary, and a defending off hand (just so I can have Brilliant Energy). My DM said I could have speed on both weapons to get 9 attacks per round as a fighter at 20th level, but if I can't, I guess I can't. Also, if I have a weapon on me that also has defending but is permanently kept at my side (I have a relic Shortsword that my characters father used before his death), would that still benefit me?
Caius - He only plays Pathfinder Core and APG usually, so I doubt anything else is possible.
Thazar - I guess so. I don't think he has any plans to continue it once the book is done (he wants to do the Serpent Skull Adventure Path next), so I guess my goal should be to survive and do everything considered Heroic or insanely crazy along the way.
I may be wrong, but it seems that nobody noticed that the first post after the OP was dripping with so much sarcasm that it flooded my keyboard for a while...
Lol, it made me laugh a little. It's like the easiest and most obvious, yet unwanted answer out there.
DigitalElf - I'm an easygoing person and in a world of fantasy, pretty much anything is possible. The times I won't play are when things get serious instead of fun.
I once had a Dragonborn Sorceress with high charisma who purposely got STD's (she was immune to them) and slept with bad people. You can guess the end result. ;)
She also borrowed a wagon while other people were exploring a building, and rode it so fast (I kept getting high rolls) that the wheel eventually fell off, and when everyone came back, they found their stuff all over the floor and had no way to fix the Wagon. I stopped playing that session for some reason and left Drakaria in some underground sewers asleep. She's still probably there, haha!
Another Character before that was a Pirate called Captain Cortez, and the campaign started out with the boat sinking, so while everyone else jumped overboard, I climbed the mast and did a triple backflip swan dive (that's what the DM called it) into 3 foot of water and landed it without hurting myself. Then when I got on shore the Dwarves melted my hat and called me stupid, and one or two sessions later there was an Ogre dealing heavy damage to the party, so I succeeded a flying kick over two Dwarves heads and then got swatted by the Ogre. Bye bye Cortez. :p
So yea, I just mess around, and this session is the only time I've managed to get a character past level 3, haha!
Any suggestions of what I could aim to achieve instead, that's of Awesome Status and actually achievable?
Level 7?
Considering that a Drunken Cayden is one of the very few elite to have EVER passed the test... I don't think your guy has a shot...
At the VERY least, it shouldn't even be POSSIBLE until you've achieved a high level..
Traps or challenges requiring Skill rolls of 30+ minimum... the kind that a 3rd level character can't even achieve.
Godhood should be an 'end-game' achievement... Not a level 3-4 challenge.
Solar detour? No way.
I'd let you become a god with a wish.
Of course, I'd do it properly wish-style. I'd deify you Steel Chrysanthemum style.
For those who don't know Legend of the Five Rings: The Steel Chrysanthemum (which was the moniker for Hantei XVI, and yes, I spelled Hantei correctly here) was the biggest a&@+*@~~ ever to be born as a direct descendant to the very gods.
He was the Emperor, descended from the first Hantai, which was the greatest child of Sun and Moon, which were gods. To get to the point, tradition held that what the Emperor decided in the realm of man would be truth in the Celestial Heavens, too.
That means the Emperor could turn you into a god. And you'd become one.
That's usually neat, if a good-natured Emperor thinks that because of your courageous acts, you should be god of Courage.
But give a total bastard this sort of power, and people are in trouble. Annoy him in any way (which was really easy. Existing usually was enough), and you'd become a god. A really crappy one. In fact, he made someone God of Crap. And that stuff was binding, in this world and every other. So no going to your deserved afterlife. You have to be God of S~$% for all eternity.
So send your GM my way, we'll work something out for you.
Maybe God of Atheism. God of Cowardice. Good of Embarrassing Accidents? That sounds good. Religious icons will be hilarious.
So careful what you wish for, it might come true! :D
I just noticed something: You want to become an angel and then take the test? I'm not sure, but I think the Test is for mortals only. As outsider, you'll get no shortcuts.
For you, it'll be Outsider, Nascent Outsider Overlord, Overlord, Deity.
Took Lamashtu a few aeons.
Sarenrae got there faster, but she imprisoned a god-beast that just ate dozens of other gods, so you have your work cut out for you either way.
Any suggestions of what I could aim to achieve instead, that's of Awesome Status and actually achievable?
Level 7?
Considering that a Drunken Cayden is one of the very few elite to have EVER passed the test... I don't think your guy has a shot...
At the VERY least, it shouldn't even be POSSIBLE until you've achieved a high level..
Traps or challenges requiring Skill rolls of 30+ minimum... the kind that a 3rd level character can't even achieve.
Godhood should be an 'end-game' achievement... Not a level 3-4 challenge.
LOL!
The idea was to work towards it, not expect a level 4 character to achieve it on his own. :p
I was hoping to be able to start doing stuff towards it at around level 19 or 20 (if I survive that long). I know I should be doing a really good amount of damage by that point, and I already have 12 in Stealth and Acrobatics, and 8 in Climb. I've got good bonuses, but before I'd even think about achieving my goal, I'd have to be at a comfortable level. ;)
Kaeyoss - People are already starting to nickname me "Half-pint", so I guess I could be the Deity of unfinished drinks? LOL. I dunno, something funny and pointless, but at least I could live forever.
The Deity of Egg Protection, or the Deity of Chair comfortability. ;)
Anyway, those still sound like ways I wouldn't mind attempting, though becoming an Angel in the first place is ridiculously hard. I mean I wouldn't mind being the lowest Angel (Deva is it?) and then working my way up the ranks, but yea. Though I think you would make me a Deity for mocking purposes and not greater purposes. :p
Also, is that big guy who turns people into a god actually in the core Pathfinder book (or APG) anywhere? I don't think he is, but then I haven't read the whole thing.
Keep dreaming. You could always have him become a devout Mormon. They can be gods in the next life...
Hey guys,
So I'm playing a campaign right now (Legacy of Fire) and am nearing the end of book 1, but recently decided I wanted to make my character religious towards Cayden Cailean, find a way to grant a wish, turn him into a Solar Angel and then venture onto the Test of the Starstone.
Wish doesn't allow you to turn into a solar. Likewise, becoming a solar would be pretty pointless if you were trying to reach god status with the Test of the Starstone anyway; except in hopes that whatever the test was, the raw power of a Solar would be able to help you. On the other hand, something like that could also hurt you (what if during the test, your strengths and weaknesses were somehow reverse, and so Cayden actually succeeded because he was so uselessly inebriated when he entered that he was made amazing during the test).
However, my DM won't allow any of this and I feel my character is going to become pretty boring if I can't have something like this to work towards.
Your character will become boring if you cannot achieve godhood? What are your characters thoughts, and motivations? Does he have any family or love interests? Does he have any sort of devotion to a higher power or spiritual inclination? What makes your character a person, as opposed to a few stats on some paper?
I'm a Two Weapon Warrior who plans to use two Bastard swords (TWW allows you to use any sized weapon as a light handed weapon for off hand, providing it's one handed) that will be modded with Speed, Defense, Thundering and Shocking Burst for my primary, and Speed, Defense and Brilliant Energy for my Off Hand.
As another pointed out, multiple speed weapons do not stack. Likewise, they don't stack with haste, last I checked (making Speed an amazingly overpriced weapon enhancement). I'd skip it, honestly.
I'm a Half-ling who was recently turned into a Were Leopard, but due to thinking this was bad, failing my will save and killing the strongest defender in the group with one full attack (did something like 50 damage to the Cleric who was the only healer in the party), I took a belladonna without even knowing it could kill my character. My character was cured straight away though.
However, we sold a punching dagger that can turn you into a Were creature again if you score a Critical hit with it, so I plan to buy it back and because there's an overpowered Zen Archer, Bare handed fighting Monk in our team, the DM's allowing me to boost my stats up by turning into a self aware Were-creature. I'm a good character, so I'm going to make my Were-character good, and supposedly it will allow me to deal 2D8+8 on each weapon when I have two Bastard Swords.
So, I have all of this going on right now, but really would like to make my Half-ling become a god (or at the very least a Celestial), so I can make an example to the world to show that Half-ling's are good fighters.
From the sounds of it, you're not showing that halflings are good fighters. It sounds more like you're showing that lycanthropy-afflicted halflings are good fighters. Just throwin' that out there.
Only downer is my DM is saying you can't change form/shape or race with a Wish, and because the Test of the Starstone isn't in the Core Pathfinder book (or APG), he's not allowing me to follow this path....
Technically you can, but not like you're asking, and not permanently. You could use wish to replicate polymorph any object or a similar spell, which could transform you into something else, but it would be temporary (could be dispelled, might not be permanent depending on the form, or you would change back when you used your lycanthropy).
Are you set on seeking Godhood, or merely immortality?
I'm a pretty lenient DM. I've got a "just say yes!" philosophy on the game
I think I just made a new house rule: You can use wish to transform yourself or a willing subject into any creature, with a duration of instantaneous, as long as your caster level is equal to or greater than its ECL. Correspondingly, you or the subject trades in XP levels one-for-one to buy racial Hit Die and dead levels; if you don't have enough ECL, the spell fails and your diamonds are wasted.
So you've got 22 Outsider Hit Dice and the Level Adjustment of a creature that has +18 STR/+10 DEX/+20 CON/+12 INT/+16 WIS/+14 CHA, 150' fly speed, unlimited arrows of slaying, spell resistance of 12+HD, permanent true seeing, regeneration 15 (evil), 20 levels of Cleric spellcasting as a racial ability, and wish as an SLA.
I'm going to take a stab at it. Let's call the Cleric spellcasting a class feature of the racial hit dice and ignore it; ability scores are worth about +10, flight's trivial at this level so 0, arrow of slaying has been nerfed since 3.5 so we'll call it +2, SR's worth another +2, that kind of regeneration's at least +3. If we're assuming 3.0 epic spellcasting, I'll let wish go for +5 considering the level we're at.
Unless someone feels like arguing with my reckoning-- by all means-- I'd say that you could have yourself transformed into a Solar as soon as you reach 44th level and you can find a 44th level caster willing to cast wish for you.
In my games, characters can start the process of ascending at 36th. Most of them wouldn't waste time on becoming an angel first.
Technically you can, but not like you're asking, and not permanently. You could use wish to replicate polymorph any object or a similar spell, which could transform you into something else, but it would be temporary (could be dispelled, might not be permanent depending on the form, or you would change back when you used your lycanthropy).
Really, this is the sort of thing wish is for. The standard abilities aren't the limits of its power, they're the guidelines for what sort of thing wish should be capable of. It's capable of raising the dead and restoring someone to their original race after a bad reincarnate.
Wish is pretty much the prestidigitation of epic spellcasting. It's the gateway to real magic, the stuff our feeble mortal minds aren't ready for.
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment, at the GM's discretion.)
It's just the thing he wants to turn himself into is so ridiculous; it's practically a demigod in its own right. Really, telling him "no" at this stage of the game is a kindness. As long as the guy he was trying to get the wish out of was relatively friendly, I'd give him a chance to back down, but if he pushed it or used a bound Outsider for the wish, I'd have a field day with him.
i see no reason no to let you become a god but in my mind if your character becomes a god they pretty much become unplayable at best your future characters can worship him
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If he gathers the mercy of Orcus, the selflessness of Tiamat, the humility of Asmodeus, and the compassion of Lolth. . .and why stop at Solar when you could achieve lichdom and magic jar yourself into the Tarrasque. . .
i see no reason no to let you become a god but in my mind if your character becomes a god they pretty much become unplayable at best your future characters can worship him
I miss the good old days, when 36th level characters got to start over as 1st level Immortals and keep adventuring.
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I may be wrong, but it seems that nobody noticed that the first post after the OP was dripping with so much sarcasm that it flooded my keyboard for a while...Lol, it made me laugh a little. It's like the easiest and most obvious, yet unwanted answer out there.
DigitalElf - I'm an easygoing person and in a world of fantasy, pretty much anything is possible. The times I won't play are when things get serious instead of fun.
I once had a Dragonborn Sorceress with high charisma who purposely got STD's (she was immune to them) and slept with bad people. You can guess the end result. ;)
She also borrowed a wagon while other people were exploring a building, and rode it so fast (I kept getting high rolls) that the wheel eventually fell off, and when everyone came back, they found their stuff all over the floor and had no way to fix the Wagon. I stopped playing that session for some reason and left Drakaria in some underground sewers asleep. She's still probably there, haha!
Another Character before that was a Pirate called Captain Cortez, and the campaign started out with the boat sinking, so while everyone else jumped overboard, I climbed the mast and did a triple backflip swan dive (that's what the DM called it) into 3 foot of water and landed it without hurting myself. Then when I got on shore the Dwarves melted my hat and called me stupid, and one or two sessions later there was an Ogre dealing heavy damage to the party, so I succeeded a flying kick over two Dwarves heads and then got swatted by the Ogre. Bye bye Cortez. :p
So yea, I just mess around, and this session is the only time I've managed to get a character past level 3, haha!
Hm..no thanks...wouldn't have you at my table. RPGs are games but aren't games if you get my drift. There is a certain level of seriousness required. I had a few players who messed around with everyone else, needles to say i do not play with them any more.
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Any suggestions of what I could aim to achieve instead, that's of Awesome Status and actually achievable?
Level 7?
Considering that a Drunken Cayden is one of the very few elite to have EVER passed the test... I don't think your guy has a shot...
At the VERY least, it shouldn't even be POSSIBLE until you've achieved a high level..
Traps or challenges requiring Skill rolls of 30+ minimum... the kind that a 3rd level character can't even achieve.
Godhood should be an 'end-game' achievement... Not a level 3-4 challenge.
LOL!
The idea was to work towards it, not expect a level 4 character to achieve it on his own. :p
I was hoping to be able to start doing stuff towards it at around level 19 or 20 (if I survive that long). I know I should be doing a really good amount of damage by that point, and I already have 12 in Stealth and Acrobatics, and 8 in Climb. I've got good bonuses, but before I'd even think about achieving my goal, I'd have to be at a comfortable level. ;)
Kaeyoss - People are already starting to nickname me "Half-pint", so I guess I could be the Deity of unfinished drinks? LOL. I dunno, something funny and pointless, but at least I could live forever.
The Deity of Egg Protection, or the Deity of Chair comfortability. ;)
Anyway, those still sound like ways I wouldn't mind attempting, though becoming an Angel in the first place is ridiculously hard. I mean I wouldn't mind being the lowest Angel (Deva is it?) and then working my way up the ranks, but yea. Though I think you would make me a Deity for mocking purposes and not greater purposes. :p
Also, is that big guy who turns people into a god actually in the core Pathfinder book (or APG) anywhere? I don't think he is, but then I haven't read the whole thing.
Considering what gods are and what they can do:
Do you really consider dealing any amount of damage or great skills do be of any concern if the question whether you make it through the test of the starstone? The Starstone Cathedral is known to the the vast majority of people in Avistan and Garund, as a means to become a god. Among these people are acrobats, warriors, merchants, dedicated monks, heroes and utterly insane wizards, even a wannabe god whose somewhat brilliant designs allow him to rule a kingdom and command a church of fanatics.Yet, since the time Aroden rose the starstone from the sea, only three people made it through the test and became deities.
It is certainly possible, and since your campaign won't change or influence mine in any level, if you can persuade your gm and you both have fun doing so, sure, let your character pass the test and become the O God of Whatsoever, but if I think about the test I imagine that it takes mor than dedication and being a halfling warrior to stand a chance.
The reason you don't find the Starstone Test in the core Rules or the APG or anywhere else is that Pathfinder may produce strong heroes of probably superhuman capaccitiy, it is not a game about Apotheosis (becomig an god). Try Scion or that ;-). Thus, there is no feat, special ability or Starstone Test DC given. If anything, it should be n epic adventure in itself, which might be difficult to pull off, since the test is different for any aspirant.
Also, don't be puzzled if the majority of reactions on the boards is WTF?. Your way of playing is certainly not the most common or only way to play the game and have fun and most campaigns don't see superpowered were-halflings and characters becoming kings all the time (which may be the reaso why there are so few rules about that).
Anyway, these are just a bunch of thoughts, what is important for you and your group is to have fun. Maybe you should consider that the gm would not consider your plans a fun way of playing (derailing) his campyign.
My theory is that the Starstone Test is a test of character, but that it isn't testing for any measure of alignment. What is it testing for? Ask your DM; he deserves a good laugh.
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My theory is that the Starstone Test is a test of character, but that it isn't testing for any measure of alignment. What is it testing for? Ask your DM; he deserves a good laugh.
I agree. I'd go as far as to believe the test is a test whether the appliant is of heart and character to become a god that is still needed.
LOL!
The idea was to work towards it, not expect a level 4 character to achieve it on his own. :p
I was hoping to be able to start doing stuff towards it at around level 19 or 20 (if I survive that long). I know I should be doing a really good amount of damage by that point, and I already have 12 in Stealth and Acrobatics, and 8 in Climb. I've got good bonuses, but before I'd even think about achieving my goal, I'd have to be at a comfortable level. ;)
My first 3e character actually became a god. However, I feel I have to point out a few things:
And all that was with a GM that was fairly accommodating in regards to the characters' (and players') lust for power, who incorporated the ideas and goals the characters and players had into the campaign (especially that epic part).
I think nobody of less than epic level should even have a shot at this, and then it should be the culmination of herculean efforts - and, most importantly, not something the player gets to play with. It's always the ultimate outcome of that campaign, not a milestone. You don't get to play god.
Other than that, reaching epic levels - or even the upper part of high levels, i.e. when you get the highest-level magics, the most attacks as a warrior, and get close to your class's capstone ability - is quite awesome all by itself. You might not be a god, but as far as 99.99999999% of the people inhabiting the world are concerned, you're the next best thing.
Kaeyoss - People are already starting to nickname me "Half-pint", so I guess I could be the Deity of unfinished drinks? LOL. I dunno, something funny and pointless, but at least I could live forever.
You get that, anyway. You'd usually be bound to your deserved afterlife, the Eternal Reward.
Instead, you have to go to the place gods go, probably get pitied and/or ridiculed, and have to watch over humans do the stupid stuff that is part of your portfolio forever.
You'd probably take on characteristics in line with your portfolio, too. Still fun to become Half-Pint the God of Unfinished Drinks? You'll smell like stale beer. And that's still better than H$$#~%@%~ God.
Also, is that big guy who turns people into a god actually in the core Pathfinder book (or APG) anywhere? I don't think he is, but then I haven't read the whole thing.
If you refer to the Test of the Starstone, then no. It's from the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting (or just Pathfinder Campaign Setting these days). And there, there are only general explanations about how it came to be and who succeeded so far (in the almost 5000 years since the test existed, there were only 3 winners. And there are people trying it every month).
The test itself, is not anywhere (yet - it might become an epic super module or something like that some day), though it is said that it's probably different for everyone and, of course, fiendishly difficult and deadly.
The Test of the Starstone is purposefully undefined by Paizo, but hints and expectations are that you'd have to be 30th to 40th level before you have a reasonable chance to try. That's something that Paizo simply doesn't cater for yet (though their epic level rules will appear sooner or later).
Regarding your halfling warrior aiming to become a god or at least celestiality. Have you considered the "obvious" ways of changing to a synthesist summoner (where you'd bond with and fuse with a celestial spirit) (see Ultimate Magic)? The synthesist can be an amazing melee character - it's the primary strength of the archetype. And allows you to evolve the features you want to be pseudo-divine; once you around level 16 to 20 you'd be powerful and celestial enough to count as a herald for an actual god.
I think your GM might be okay with that level of "godhood".
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The reason you don't find the Starstone Test in the core Rules or the APG or anywhere else is that Pathfinder may produce strong heroes of probably superhuman capaccitiy, it is not a game about Apotheosis (becomig an god). Try Scion.
This. If your character's only motivation is to be a god, you should probably find a different game to play. Or start playing another character. The Starstone Tests aren't something for PCs to be trying to take on. If they were, then pretty much every PC would try it.
I haven't played LoF, but I do know how it ends. No spoilers, but stick it out to till then and I'm sure you'll enjoy the ending.
Also, to plot someone's (especially a party member's) death like that, even if it just is in your mind, is definitely not good. At best it'd be neutral since it's for self preservation (kind of). IF he actually does manage to sell you (which the DM shouldn't allow anyway), you could fight back.
And I'd think about adding frost to one of your swords, since you are in a desert and all. Just a thought.
Technically you can, but not like you're asking, and not permanently. You could use wish to replicate polymorph any object or a similar spell, which could transform you into something else, but it would be temporary (could be dispelled, might not be permanent depending on the form, or you would change back when you used your lycanthropy).
Personally, I think letting wish or miracle duplicate reincarnate and also let you choose what to turn into (out of the choices reincarnate allows) is in line with the other automatic abilities.
I'd even allow other races, as long as they're in line with the other stuff on that list.
I'd also let wish or miracle function as a bargaining chip when you want a speedy promotion after death (usually, you turn into a petitioner after you die and eventually turn into some outsider, usually one of the lowest kind. A wish or miracle spoken while you're alive would greatly improve your chances of becoming a higher form of outsider directly after you're dead and judged).
Wish doesn't allow you to turn into a solar. Likewise, becoming a solar would be pretty pointless if you were trying to reach god status with the Test of the Starstone anyway; except in hopes that whatever the test was, the raw power of a Solar would be able to help you. On the other hand, something like that could also hurt you (what if during the test, your strengths and weaknesses were somehow reverse, and so Cayden actually succeeded because he was so uselessly inebriated when he entered that he was made amazing during the test).
That would actually be pretty funny, though I'm guessing it's all down to the DM/GM because I'm pretty sure there is no campaign covering the path yet, so the DM would have to get creative.
Your character will become boring if you cannot achieve godhood? What are your characters thoughts, and motivations? Does he have any family or love interests? Does he have any sort of devotion to a higher power or spiritual inclination? What makes your character a person, as opposed to a few stats on some paper?
Well, my characters backstory is this (although the DM hasn't included a single thing about it yet, so probably won't):
What he's most known for however, is being one of the most badass pit fighters in Katapesh.
Once whilst working as a Duskwalker Agent, Isaac had allowed his best friend Tygreth to steal from a food stall because the local slaves had been starved and mistreated for weeks. As punishment for this, he was forced into a Pit Fighting Tournament where he would most likely die. Though he was told, if he managed to survive he would be able to go back to work as normal, but each round was a knockout round, and death wasn't disallowed. All residents of Katapesh know that people always love a good blood sport.
Down to a strange turn of events, an unforeseen outcome occured. It turned out that Isaac (the 2 foot 10 halfling) was a capable warrior and using height to his advantage, he was always able to dodge attacks and do damage wherever his opponents were most vulnerable. Most of the time this was to their legs. If he could bring a target down to his level, he knew he had pretty much won.
At some point during his early 20's, a smartarse by the name of Bondween Tark approached Isaac and decided that he wanted to fight him for his title of "Atrum Equus - The Dark Horse". When Isaac declined the offer Tark took it as a personal insult, accused Tygreth of being a murderer and had him executed.
Due to this, Isaac arranged for the fight to take place between himself and Tark, and made sure that it was in a tournament where anything goes, in hope that he could avenge his best friend.
When the fight took place, Tark was as cocky as ever and thought for sure that he would win.
Beforehand, he had convinced the fight organiser (most likely through lies) to allow for a third person (later known as Bandavaar) to enter without Isaac's knowledge. This third person would be there to ensure Tark prevailed.
They entered the arena where Isaac was waiting unarmed, soaked in blood from head to toe and barely standing from exhaustion. Yet, Isaac looked stronger and more capable than ever. He didn't care that Tark had a helping hand. The only thing on his mind was ending Tarks evil ways, in honour of Tygreth, because if it wasnt for the crimes Tark falsely accused him of, he would still be alive today.
Moments passed then both Tark and Bandavaar approached Isaac from either side. Their idea was to flank him, hoping to finish the fight quickly and efficiently. Little did they know, Isaac was purposely standing in a certain spot, and although both of Isaac's opponents thought they had the game in the bag, neither they or the crowd could have possibly foreseen what was about to happen.
Tark and Bandavaar went in for an attack on Isaac simultaneously, but within the blink of an eye Isaac had rolled to the side of them, picked up a shield and smashed it into the side of Tarks face harder than anyone could have ever possibly imagined. In fact, he hit Tark so hard that he caved his cheek bone in entirely, broke his jaw, dislocated his jaw, knocked his teeth out along the side of his face that the shield made contact with, and ended up knocking Bandavaar out due to the force of Tarks head flying back into Bandavaars face. It was because of this very moment Isaac had become the most badass fighter known to Katapesh.
Tark was heavily dazed and knew that the only way he would survive was if he escaped the arena and left the City of Katapesh, so he did exactly that, but vowed to get his revenge on Isaac.
Shortly after the tournament had ended, the fight organiser was executed for tampering with the rules by order of the Pactmasters, and a bounty was put out for the live capture of Tark.
Bandavaar however was allowed to do as he pleased, as it turned out that he was manipulated by Tark's terrible lies, and had been told that Isaac was responsible for the enslavement of his girlfriend, Vitaria.
Bandavaar later apologised to Isaac and offered to join him in his quest for the truth, helping wherever possible and assisting in the live capture of Tark, providing Isaac would aid him in freeing his girlfriend from the harsh life of slavery. Isaac Agreed.
- So as you can see, he's strongly against slavery, and I was wanting to pursue some kind of greater power to give all other slaves the hope that they deserve.
He's strongly against slavery, and although loyal and not really a drinker, he believes in Cayden's idealisms where bravery and freedom take priority.
He's very loyal but right now hates the fact the supposedly good monk is always making jokes about slavery, and insinuating that he'll sell me off, given the chance.
So, I'm trying to turn him into a very capable killing machine, so that when anyone does try it on, I can kill every single one of them, as that's what I'd do if I were him. I wouldn't just wait around and accept the fate of a slave. I'd rebel at every given chance, and becoming a god would inspire every other Half-ling slave out there. Though, being immortal might be able to do that too, so I guess that's another feasible option.
As another pointed out, multiple speed weapons do not stack. Likewise, they don't stack with haste, last I checked (making Speed an amazingly overpriced weapon enhancement). I'd skip it, honestly.
Yea, doesn't sound so great now. I guess I'll just have to be happy with 7 attacks each round (by level 20), because I really thought they stacked. My DM even told me so.
From the sounds of it, you're not showing that halflings are good fighters. It sounds more like you're showing that lycanthropy-afflicted halflings are good fighters. Just throwin' that out there.
Yea, I know what you're saying, but although he can handle himself pretty well in a fight, the Monk just steals the show all of the time. The other characters are annoyed because they don't even get a look in, with the range and capability of the broken Monk.
So, my DM wanted to boost me up with Lycanthropy to at least give me a chance to do what a fighter's meant to do, and seeing as I'm at the front all of the time, it makes sense to be the strongest or most capable.
Apparently because I'm small, the Monk uses me as cannon fodder, but even without Lycanthropy, I can still fight pretty well. My attack bonus is 5 for my primary, and 9 or 10 for my off hand, but the primary deals pretty much double damage of my off hand, so it levels itself out.
Only problem is, when I get my second Bastard Sword, if I sell or lose the Shortsword from my father, I'll be depressed or something for a year, and have penalties against me, so I wanted to use the materials of the Shortsword to make the Bastard Sword, but apparently that's not allowed.
Technically you can, but not like you're asking, and not permanently. You could use wish to replicate polymorph any object or a similar spell, which could transform you into something else, but it would be temporary (could be dispelled, might not be permanent depending on the form, or you would change back when you used your lycanthropy).
Are you set on seeking Godhood, or merely immortality?
Either. Just something to inspire other Half-ling's around the world to show that they actually have the chance to reach their stars/dreams. :)
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Interfering with trade (even slavery) in Katapesh is a BAD idea. It's like talking about Fight Club.
How exactly is it that you have a higher attack bonus on your off hand than on your main? Unless you're using that relic/heirloom sword in your off hand. And where is this year of depression and penalties over losing the sword coming from? Assuming it's an heirloom weapon, there's no penalty to losing it. You just don't get the bonus for using other weapons of that type.
Interfering with trade (even slavery) in Katapesh is a BAD idea. It's like talking about Fight Club.
How exactly is it that you have a higher attack bonus on your off hand than on your main? Unless you're using that relic/heirloom sword in your off hand. And where is this year of depression and penalties over losing the sword coming from? Assuming it's an heirloom weapon, there's no penalty to losing it. You just don't get the bonus for using other weapons of that type.
I'm using my Dex instead of my Str for Off Hand Attack Bonus. ;)
Also, the losing a weapon penalty is in the Legacy of Fire player book. It's called Reclaiming your Roots. :)
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I'm using my Dex instead of my Str for Off Hand Attack Bonus. ;)
Also, the losing a weapon penalty is in the Legacy of Fire player book. It's called Reclaiming your Roots. :)
If that's the case, why not just use two short swords? You'll lower your TWF penalty and get to the two weapon fighter variant's -0/-0 penalty for twf. And save some feats. If you REALLY want to run around with two bastard swords, get a pair of Sunblades (eventually).
If that's the case, why not just use two short swords? You'll lower your TWF penalty and get to the two weapon fighter variant's -0/-0 penalty for twf. And save some feats. If you REALLY want to run around with two bastard swords, get a pair of Sunblades (eventually).
Well, because I can do the same thing with two Bastard Swords in Two Weapon Warrior.
It reduces my penalty for dual wielding by 2 I think (which is my current penalty for dual wielding), and it allows me to use a bastard sword off hand as if it were a light weapon, enabling me to keep finesse on it. ;)
It might be tempting to buy one Sunblade later on, but the custom weapons I plan to make (if I get enough money) are actually better.
Also, when I get Weapon Focus Bastard Sword, the effects will benefit both of my Bastard Swords. :)
How do you use dexteritu to attack with a bastard sword? It isn't a light weapon...
Yea, but it's classed as one when you reach later levels of TWW, so you can do it.
That's why I still have my Shortsword. I'm not at the level where you're able to use any one handed weapon as a light weapon yet.
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From the APG
"Improved Balance (Ex)
At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties."
So at level 11, you could treat a bastard sword in the off hand as a light weapon. So you'd have the -2/-2 penalty for having a light weapon in your off hand. At level 15, it would get reduced to -1/-1 since you don't get the -1 from improved balance because you took the alternative part of the ability.
As for your two swords, they're gonna cost you at least 200k. By the average wealth by level chart, that leaves you 40k for other stuff.
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How do you use dexteritu to attack with a bastard sword? It isn't a light weapon...
My guess would be that he interprets Improved Balance from Two Weapon Warrior in that way that he treats his off hand weapon as a light weapon not only in respect to two weapon fighting but also in respect to weapon finesse.
From the APG
"Improved Balance (Ex)
At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties."
So at level 11, you could treat a bastard sword in the off hand as a light weapon. So you'd have the -2/-2 penalty for having a light weapon in your off hand. At level 15, it would get reduced to -1/-1 since you don't get the -1 from improved balance because you took the alternative part of the ability.
As for your two swords, they're gonna cost you at least 200k. By the average wealth by level chart, that leaves you 40k for other stuff.
On average do you only get 240k per campaign then?
If that's the case, I better get finding things. :p
-1/-1 isn't a big deal for me as I'm going for more damage over anything right now, as I feel although I can hit a lot right now, what's the point in hitting a lot if at later levels you won't even be able to get past creatures damage reduction?
So yea, I'm trying to balance out damage and hit rate, so I don't mind only a -1 attack penalty.
It's a bit of a shame it's instead of, but it's good for what it does, and I'm not dipping into anything else at all. I'm going to be a TWW all the way. :)
Deluvian - If you stop being ignorant for one second, you'll see that there is purpose behind it, and if the DM really won't let me, that's fine.
It's for character progression and nothing to do with me as a player. If that's a problem for you then maybe you should stop worrying about what other people are doing, and worry about yourself. ;)
I'm here to talk about the possibilities of things. I'm not offending anyone, and if you are offended, you can easily ignore my threads. Replying isn't a necessity to raise your post count. ;)
Everyone else - Thanks very much for all of the suggestions. I'm really on here to learn more things as I haven't been playing Pathfinder for that long.
I'm mainly a computer gamer (Playstation 3, 360, PC), but this is just something I play to be a little more social, so I ask suggestions and the possibility of things to understand the game a little better.
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So, let me see if I got this right: You are a dual bastard sword weilding, were creature who just happens to be a halfing? Arent you a god (of insanity with the portfolio of Munchkism) already? As of righ now there is nothing concrete to ascending godhood. Its all in the purview of the GM. I wouldnt be surpised if GM isnt already pulling whatever body hair is available in order to challenge the group. But, good luck with that.
So, let me see if I got this right: You are a dual bastard sword weilding, were creature who just happens to be a halfing? Arent you a god (of insanity with the portfolio of Munchkism) already? As of righ now there is nothing concrete to ascending godhood. Its all in the purview of the GM. I wouldnt be surpised if GM isnt already pulling whatever body hair is available in order to challenge the group. But, good luck with that.
Haha, I guess by the time I reach level 20 I should be pretty up there. I don't suppose it really matters if I only get 7 attacks each round with everything considered.
Also, he told me he's allowing broken and boosted characters because the Legacy of Fire campaign is actually pretty hard.
We've almost died countless times, and in fact one person did die from a single attack. I mean even someone who's been playing the game for years said to him, doesn't he think everything's far too overpowered, and he said he's just going by the book, so I think this style works for the campaign.
I just want to make my character become an idol to all other Half-lings for the greater good, so that's why I liked the idea of making him a god.
However, if I get the chance to become King, I'd put all of my money towards buying a castle or fort, and making it a safe haven for all Half-lings (providing they have good intentions). Any evildoer's will be cast out or simply not allowed in, in the first place.
I don't think this spoils anything plot-related, but just in case, peak at your own risk.
** spoiler omitted **
Ah, thanks for that. It didn't spoil anything for me. :)
The monk found a book that allowed him to understand Genie (although we haven't come across any yet), so I guessed we'd probably come across some later on.
Not actually owning the Legacy of Fire book myself, if I ever got the chance to grant a wish, does the DM actually have a long list of wishes (that were actually made for this campaign) for me to choose from? I'm guessing he'd tell me the options if such an opportunity arose?
As for not reaching level 20, do you know if there's a reason for this?
Supposedly we're a level or two above what we're meant to be, so I guess it's possible to reach level 20, even if the book doesn't intend for us to.
Also, I think we'd be starting a new campaign after this (rather than continuing on to epic levels), as the DM has been toying with the idea of starting the Serpent Skull adventure path after this.