Synthesist Summoner and Alter Self / Disguise Self

[Warforged Gardener]

I've tried to find an answer for this in the forums and FAQ, but it seems to be much more of a corner case than most: would a fused eidolon be effectively hidden by disguise spells like Alter Self and Disguise Self? Could a character use these spells or ANY spells to remain fused(as in, fully armored with his eidolon suit on) but appear as defenseless as a demon pretending to be a small child?

I only ask because Summoners in particular seem to have that weird glyph that can't ever be hidden(or so some threads say).

[LazarX]

Wear a cap.

What's going to give you away is that you're suspended inside something that looks like a translucent gelatinous monster.

The other problem you have is that neither of those spells are...

1. On your class list.

2. Last for a particurlarly long time. Disguise Self has a decent duration but it's visual only. Not going to stop anyone from bumping into your presumably larger super suit. Or feeling the difference when you shake hands.

[Warforged Gardener]

I'm not worried about the glyph. Just the incredibly noticeable translucent ghost shape surrounding the character's body.

[Craig Bonham 141]

Depends on how you skin it. That would need you to work with the DM. Me, I'm pretty dang lenient, but a Synthesist Summoner will never be able to hide the fact that he/she is something other than some form of an outsider.

[Eltacolibre]

Don't think that you can get rid of that effect with disguise self or alter self. You probably need some stronger illusion spells like Veil.

[Warforged Gardener]

I'm actually the DM in this case, but I was hoping to find some kind of consensus on whether/why a Synthesist/Summoner's eidolon can't do what Succubi and other outsiders have been doing forever. If it's meant to be a class limitation, it's kind of a strange one. Other classes are sort of marked by their gear anyhow, but not in such a way that a hat of disguise would be useless to conceal their martial nature. Like I said, it's a weird corner case if eidolons, fused or otherwise, can't be disguised or concealed while summoned(until someone casts detect magic, at least).

[Eltacolibre]

My main issue frankly with disguise self and alter self: the eidolon doesn't care that you look like grandma or a halfling or a half-orc, it would be a translucent ghost on top of you. Now with spells like Veil which actually change all aspects of appearance around your character, you could superimpose an image of something that other would see.

Technically spells like major image could work as well basically since you could make a total illusion of your surroundings.

Of course as the dm, you are free to do whatever you want.

[Craig Bonham 141]

Those other outsiders usually have a Change Self sort of creature ability to be able to fake it. Eidolons don't. Also, not all outsiders have that ability. Eidolons could simply be in the class of eidolon that doesn't give a hoot about faking it. They let their freak flag fly.

[LazarX]

Warforged Gardener wrote:

I'm actually the DM in this case, but I was hoping to find some kind of consensus on whether/why a Synthesist/Summoner's eidolon can't do what Succubi and other outsiders have been doing forever.

The abilities you thinking of, aren't really that common among outsiders. Actually only those who are speifically statted as having the ability can. Lemure's can't, Retreivers normally can't, nor can elementals.

It's not a standard property of the Outsider type.

[Cap. Darling]

I think a greater hat of disguise will turn you and the fused Eidelon in to a medium or small humanoid. And i dont think the eidolon need to be transparent in a way that make it ghostly or that make the summoner look like a guy in a gel suit. Translucernt is letting ligth in but not allowing the outside to look in.
Edit: the stopping the synthesist madness is harder than this:)

[Warforged Gardener]

LazarX wrote:

Warforged Gardener wrote:

I'm actually the DM in this case, but I was hoping to find some kind of consensus on whether/why a Synthesist/Summoner's eidolon can't do what Succubi and other outsiders have been doing forever.

The abilities you thinking of, aren't really that common among outsiders. Actually only those who are speifically statted as having the ability can. Lemure's can't, Retreivers normally can't, nor can elementals.

It's not a standard property of the Outsider type.

I didn't say it was standard, just that alter self interacts with outsiders the same way as it does with humanoids. The real issue is whether alter self or spells like it would simultaneously affect both parts of the synthesist/eidolon, in the same way that all other spells affect both of them as though they were one creature(until the eidolon is dismissed, anyway).

If alter self can make either look like a humanoid independently as written, it stands to reason both would be simultaneously affected by a casting of the spell, but what would happen is really unclear, since the way the two are merged is visually one way and mechanically another(not unlike what happens when alter self is cast, making you look like a particular kind of humanoid, but not shifting around the stats all that much).

I appreciate the help, everyone. If anyone finds a FAQ or a rule-based argument for or against, please let me know. It looks like I might have to house rule this until there's something more solid than "Synthesists are even wackier than normal Summoners."