Summon Nature's Ally I as an Orison?

[Nefreet]

The Viper is on the Summon Nature's Ally I list. At 5th level can a Saurian Shaman use its Totemic Summons ability to summon a Young Viper as a 0-level spell?

Totemic Summons:

Saurian Shaman wrote:

Totemic Summons (Su): At 5th level, a saurian shaman may cast summon nature's ally as a standard action when summoning reptiles and dinosaurs, and these summoned creatures gain temporary hit points equal to her druid level. This ability otherwise functions as the dragon shaman's totemic summons ability.

Dragon Shaman wrote:

Totemic Summons (Su): At 5th level, a dragon shaman may cast summon nature's ally as a standard action when summoning lizards, and summoned lizards gain temporary hit points equal to her druid level. She can apply the young template to any lizard to reduce the level of the summoning spell required by one. She can also increase the level of summoning required by one in order to apply either the advanced or the giant template, or increase it by two to apply both the advanced and giant templates. This ability replaces a thousand faces.

Furthermore, since Druids may spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally in place of a prepared spell of the same level, could I spontaneously switch out one of my other Orisons to do so?

[LazarX]

The way the Totemic Spell would work in this case is that it would allow you to use a Summon Nature's Ally Zero spell if one existed. Which one does not. It does not function by lowering the level of a spell but by allowing you to use a spell one tier lower. i.e. using Summon Nature's Ally 3 instead of Summon Four, for example.

Nice try, but you can't get unlimited summonings this way.

[Eltacolibre]

at least you get a giant or advanced viper as a 1st level spell...which actually is very efficient.

[Nefreet]

Eltacolibre wrote:

at least you get a giant or advanced viper as a 1st level spell...which actually is very efficient.

That would be a 2nd level spell.

[Bigdaddyjug]

I agree with Lazar. It doesn't say it lowers the level of the spell slot used, it says it lowers the level of the summon natures ally spell required.

[Nefreet]

Hrmm. Okie dokie. Darn =(

[Captain Zoom]

This does bring up that it might make for a nice 0-level Orison or Cantrip! The ability to summon a single fairly innocuous tiny animal, limited like "Light" in that you can only have one at a time. Maybe a straight 10 minute duration?

Maybe a mouse or rat, a housecat, a tiny dog, a songbird, a tiny non-venomous snake, or a hamster!

The Devs haven't added any new Orisons/Cantrips in awhile, hope one notices and thinks this is a good idea.

[Zaister]

I think being able to summon creatures at will, no matter how feeble, could create all sorts of problems with adventure design.

[Captain K.]

Zaister wrote:

I think being able to summon creatures at will, no matter how feeble, could create all sorts of problems with adventure design.

Well, yes.

My fellow Captain, Mr. Zoom, suggests a nice little spell, Summon Monster 0 and while it shouldn't be game-breaking, we know that someone will come up with something ridiculous.

Only allowing one at a time per caster, like Light might help. I would like to see it.

A Bard gets cantrips and Summon Monster, they would qualify. They could get a little sparrow to cheerfully chirp on their shoulder as they sing. I don't know about the mechanical effects, I do know that many players would like that. It is really sweet. I imagine it would earn street performers good cash.

A Witch could periodically have a spider crawl out from under her shawl. I'm not sure it would do much, but Witches tend to delight in being creepy. A Druid could create a mouse to sniff out a crack in the wall.

[ryric]

Way back in 1e there were summoning cantrips. You could get a bee, a gnat, or a spider, as I recall.

[Captain K.]

A bee?

That could be very useful for some things.

It can fly in through windows, sting, this wakes people up or causes a distraction. Havoc in an enclosed space. Or you could make a drop of honey.

[Majuba]

Bee was awesome. I think there was a 5% chance that the spider was poisonous... should really just go grab the book and check.

[thenovalord]

Only 1 at a time like light would fine. Maybe say if it us slain can get another for ten mins?