So yesterday after the first session of a new campaign as I and my group and my DM were standing around just generally talking, character faiths came up and he asked who we all worshiped. The elf followed Calistria, the ninja thought about it and said he'd decide between Desna and Norgorber before next session, but I was at a loss.
Who, or what, would a Winter Witch worship? And not just a witch that decided to get wintery, but a full force, decended from Baba Yaga, took Noble Scion to back up being close to the throne, winter (patron) witch, Winter Witch (archtype), Winter Witch (prestige class eventually).
All the dieties that I have found that have anything to do with Ice or Winter don't seem to fit at all. Theres the dragon empire god of volcanos and winter, but why would someone who can't even cask spark worship a volcano god? There's the demon lord of cold Kostchtchie, but he wasn't even a demon until Baba Yaga made him one, and he's at war with Irrisen. The Elemental Lord assiciated with ice is the Brine Lord, but why would they worship a sea god in a landlocked country?
Obviously there is Baba Yaga herself, but I can't find anywhere that shows she is worshipped by anyone, despite her demon lord creating and then beating up levels of power.
So doesn anyone have any ideas for who or what in the world my Witch could worship, if she worshipped anything at all?
Mestama, Gyronna and Alazhra are the hag deities, and at least Mestama is worshiped by witches, but they are all hardcore evil... You know there is nothing stopping you from not worshiping a deity.
Also what is your alignment, and how far are you willing to worship away from that alignment?
The main religions on Irrisen are that of Lamasthu and Zon-Kuthon, so since your party doesn't seem to have good tendancies (Calistria and Norgorber) i would suggest you to pick one of the two usually worshipped in Irrisen.
My witch is definately be at Neutral on the good evil scale, nothing so far has come up that has codified lawful/chaotic so I can shift that either way depending. I'm willing to worship a bit of a ways away from the character alignment if it makes sense for the character to do so. And while I know I don't NEED to worship anything, I wanted to explore my options just for flavors sake.
Where did you find the main religeons of Irrisen? I couldn't find mention of them anywhere.
Well there is always Nethys, a solid choice for any full caster. There is Groetus, CN god of the end times, pretty cool, look him up.
If you are interested in the eastern gods you could worship Lao Shu Po, the rat god, witchy enough. There is Yamatsumi, not much on that one but is a neutral god of winter. Finally the is Tsukyio the god of the moon, darkness spirits and madness, and is LG. Worshipers try to tend to the spirit world and stuff.
Hope this helps.
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My witch is definately be at Neutral on the good evil scale, nothing so far has come up that has codified lawful/chaotic so I can shift that either way depending. I'm willing to worship a bit of a ways away from the character alignment if it makes sense for the character to do so. And while I know I don't NEED to worship anything, I wanted to explore my options just for flavors sake.
Where did you find the main religeons of Irrisen? I couldn't find mention of them anywhere.
You should find the info here.
Generally speaking, the offspring of Baba Yaga are an irreligious lot, though Duchess Weneschia Elvanna, ruler of Algidheart, is a cleric of Zon Kuthon.
Where did you find the main religeons of Irrisen? I couldn't find mention of them anywhere.
In the inner sea world guide. From Lands of Eternal Winter you can also find the Way of Transcendent Blis which is basically demon worshipping.
Anyway those are the most widespread religions in Irrisen, i am sure that any non-good religion wouldn't be out of place in Irrisen.
Gozreh isn't too bad for any weathery thing, though he might be a tad natural for a witch.
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According to Gods & Magic, under the entry for Sivanah (goddess of illusions, reflections and mystery) 'Veiled witches of Irrisen have been seen in Razmiran, perhaps as envoys of Baba Yaga to the Living God, or out of an interest in exchanging magic.'
So that pretty strongly suggests that Sivanah is a popular choice among at least some Irriseni witches who also serve Baba Yaga's interests.
Sivanah's focus on 'reflections' also suggests a tie to the mirror magic popular in Irrisen.
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Because Nethys has already been mentioned and good reasons given, so I won't bother covering him again. Similarly Pharasma and Sivana - both excellent choices that feel thematically more appropriate, even though Nethys is definitively more "magic" than Pharasma and more "ice" than Sivanah, though Sivanah might see great worship through the heavy use of simulacrum, being both a spell of ice/snow and illusion.
Gyrona is certainly a hag goddess, but I'm not fond of her, so... meh. But your character is yours to dow with what you like! (Also, here's Alazhra and Mestama since they were mentioned.)
As far as Groetus and Gozreh - they would be in this list if others hadn't mentioned them (especially Gozreh), but I don't know they feel terribly solid to me.
Instead, I'm going to throw out a bunch of ideas and see which ones stick. I'm going to try to stay within one step of alignment, but I'll go two steps away if I think something interesting can be made. Since I know little about you other than you're an ice witch with a neutral alignment, I'm going to throw out a lot. Sorry.
Going for the nobility angle, I could see you worshiping Abadar: cities, wealth, merchants, and laws sounds fairly like nobility myself.
Yaezhing is harsh justice. I could see this as an interpretation of "Coldness".
Sun Wukong is fun and neutral - his association with nature and strange association with magic means that he's pretty decent for witches. Being chaotic neutral works, and he held a long-standing desire for immortality. Might work well.
Qi Zhong is also a magic god, as is Nalinivati, but probably different from your character concept.
Tsukiyo is a moon god of darkness and magic, but this is... weak.
Irori is about history, self-perfection - certainly something your witch might be seeking, even if not otherwise "typical" for them out.
Fumeiyoshi could be interesting if you're into creating undead (especially cold-themed undead, as a winter-witch).
Hei Feng technically has sea as part of his portfolio, but storms, thunder, and wind might fit the Winter Witch as well; but... eh.
Nyarlathotep could be a very interesting patron, if you're into conspiracies (toppling the current government for your own, say), dangerous secrets (especially political or magical secrets), and forbidden magic. The alignment could be a barrier, but perhaps you're into one of the chaotic neutral small cults instead of the chaotic evil ones. Milani also might be interesting if you're interested in overthrowing the current reign, as might Dhalavei, though, the alignment might be an issue for all three of these. Similarly Alichino might be interesting.
Suyuddha could be interesting if you consider yourself a "controller" type tactician, taking inspiration from her to wield powerful forces, but also use your mighty witch intellect to control outcomes more than getting your hands dirty personally.
Vineshvakhi might be interesting if you consider yourself a failed guardian, somehow - perhaps by allowing the beginning of Reign of Winter come to pass or something.
Brigh could actually be very interesting, similar to Sivanah, if you go with the concept of simulacra that you more or less "set free" later.
Some sort of variant Lissala heresy might be interesting, but I don't know if that's what you're going for.
Naderi might be interested if you're gothy and not overly religious - religious in the "oh, that sounds romantic" way and have an overblown idealized concept of "lovers in a frozen lake - forever frozen in time" or somesuch. Zyphus might be interesting for a more nihilistic gothy-character.
Pulura is actually my favorite, being both a deity of cold northern climes and a deity of goodness and chaos. That said, I'm not sure she fits your character... though your character could certainly grow to her worship (which might make an interesting story in and of itself) as the Path continues, due to all the traveling involved (minor spoiler: traveling will be involved).
Rheth might also be a fascinating choice, and, given the lack of alignment or information, might be perfect for your character. She might have created her own interpretation, or had one of the "depraved" druids in her home, where she learned of their worship before he was killed or left or something. That they are "depraved" leads me to conclude he's evil or some sort of abomination, but there's no information - which your GM might love or loathe.
Tolc is neutral good, and pretty much fits perfectly with the "cold" theme, though perhaps more "physical" in prowess than you'd like.
Roidira and White Feather and The Peacock Spirit are all similar in their own ways to Rheth in that due to lack of information she may well have created her own interpretation and hung it on them like (possibly ill-fitting) clothing. White Feather in particular would be poorly suited, based on your playing up the nobility angle and that cult's playing up the equality one... but that could lead to interesting role playing or be interesting conflict due to heresy. Perhaps she lumps all three of them together.
Shimye-Magalla is one of my favorite concepts. It's a shame that she has no place in your character and has been nixed as an actual divine patron. Alas. (This is just a totally random aside.)
You might want to peruse the infernal dukes, whore queens, demon lords (and nascent demon lords), the four horsemen, or harbingers. I'd be cautious about the Protean Lords or Rakshasa Immortals - they seem like they'd cause a lot more issues in RP than anything else, but I could be wrong. There may be a nifty one there, even if you're not evil or whatever their other alignment aspect happens to be - perhaps their your patron in some odd bid for power. Qlippoth lords... are... probably best avoided. I... really don't feel like checking them out myself. Sorry.
Ng might be interesting - seasons, secrets, and wanderers sounds like a pretty excellent match to me, though he's a fey lord, and thus it might be odd for a non-fey to worship him.
If you're okay with evil elemental lords, Hshurha if you're more airy, and Kelizandri if you're more earthy or wet might work well as "cold patrons".
As for Empyreal Lords, Shei/Shei Fivedawns might be fascinating if you focus on self-actualization. Uskyeria might work well for a decent wisdom and slumber hex witch. Irez is all about magic. Arshea could make for a very... er... "physical" witch who's only "cold" is her magic, so to speak. Soralyon could be interesting, but I'm not sure he fits with the Reign of Winter due to his association with monuments... but maybe, especially as he's noted as having arcanists as some of his primary worshipers.
You might even think of worshiping a dead deity - Acavna and Amaznen come to mind, the first of the moon, the second of magic before Nethys. There's also Ancestor Worship or Ancestral Spirits. Heck, you might even be interested in Razmir, as you're not a divine caster.
Of all the ones I've mentioned, Hshurha (neutral evil, elemental, air),Ng (neutral, fey eldest), Rheth (unknown "depraved druids'" god-thing), Tolc (neutral good, of the cold lands), and Pulura (chaotic good, cold climes).
I also really like Arshea, Sun Wukong,Suyuddha, and Uskyeria as great role-playing potential.
Of those the almost-unknown Rheth might be your best option, though I'm not personally fond of it.
But I hope you enjoy, whatever you choose, and I hope this helps!
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Kelizandri does look like a good option. Good find, Tacticslion!
In addition to having the Ice subdomain, and being the favored Irriseni alignment of Neutral Evil, the bit about seizing an old marid city and dragging it down to the depths thousands of years ago fits the modus operandi of the White Witches, who have similarly seized the nation of another people to use as their own capitol / powerbase.
He also seems pretty casual about worship, and, as divine patrons go, pretty undemanding (being less interested in mortal worshippers than his own powerbase on the elemental plane of water), making him an excellent choice for a group that's also got strong loyalties to their nation and / or 'Grandmother.'
Unlike a follower of Zon-Kuthon or Lamashtu, who might find their duty to their much more demanding gods to occasionally conflict with the aims of Baba Yaga or their current Witch-Queen or their own ambitions, a follower of Kelizandra might have a teensy bit more leeway...
Glad you liked the post, Mikaze! (I always geek out when you do!)
Glad you like Kelizandri, Set! (I always geek out when I know something you like!)
The main reason I went with Hshura is that she's actually potentially active enough on the material (as she's noted as being one of the three possible "defenders" of the saumen kar).
That said, I do agree with your analysis of Kelizandri as being entirely appropriate, and, with Hshura's noted contempt of visible/corporeal creatures, I think I'll side with you on that a bit more: I'd probably change Hshura to Kelizandri as that segment of the recommendation.
On that note, however, Tolc, being "neutral good" but (potentially) being the "protector" of a "chaotic neutral" peoples also clearly has no qualms about going outside of his personal "alignment comfort zone", and thus may be a great focus for worship.
One final note is that your character might make her own small pantheon to worship. I could easily see her taking inspiration and possibly coming up with some heretofore un-thought-of heresy, such as a collaboration between Tolc, Kelizandri, Ng, and Pulura, or something, as the "Spirits of the cold" or something else. I would be cautious and not over-do it, but such ideas could be character-generating seeds.
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Of course, the perfect god for the Winter Witches would be Auril, from the Forgotten Realms. :)
Of course, the perfect god for the Winter Witches would be Auril, from the Forgotten Realms. :)
... yeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaahhhh...
(dang it, FR, why did you have to go through a Spellplague.)((Of course, it got me "into" Golarion, so that's a plus.))
Thanks so much for all the ideas! Luckily I have a few days before our next game so I'll have plenty of time to look into all of them and find who or what will be the perfect divine patron for my winter wonder witch :)
for what it's worth, Pharasma seems to mostly be a god worshipped by commoners in Irrisen, at least judging from the Reign of Winter/Campaign setting book. There might be class pressures keeping witches from openly worshipping her.
Officially, the White Witches take a dim view of organized religion — other than the faiths of Lamashtu and Zon-Kuthon — but in practice, small temples such as this one [dedicated to Pharasma] are usually tolerated in villages throughout Irrisen.
Zon-Kuthon and Lamashtu are the state-sanctioned religions. Zon-Kuthon's probably more popular with the witches proper (as indicated by one of the Duchesses being a cleric), while Lamashtu is followed by the witches' inhuman allies.
My general impression is that most White Witches simply aren't interested in religion. Though they'd be suspicious of anything that seems subversive.
However, Whitethrone's actually pretty open to foreigners, so it's not a stretch for a White Witch to have been exposed to something intriguing that a foreign trader brought in.
I assume that your genuine winter witch is evil-aligned?
Hmmm, looks like Sithhud, nascent demon lord of frost and undeath, hasn't been brought up yet. Sithhud used to be a full demon lord, before Kostchtchie overthrew him and seized Sithhud's realm.
Sithhud actively plots against Kostchtchie (whose commandments include such charming bits as "Kill All Witches"), so he might have some appeal. Sithhud got his own article in Jade Regent Book 3, so the Wiki article is rather out of date.
Hell doesn't have as much that's on point to offer, other than Asmodeus himself as a god of magic, and Geryon as a lord over heresy and forbidden lore. I could see a White Witch taking an unhealthy interest in forbidden lore.
Charon, Horseman of Death, who currently has the populace of an entire world trapped in a glacier that's melting into the River Styx, could be another possible option.
None of the above applies if your White Witch is actually supposed to be a decent person =P
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Heh, I actually described her to my party as "She's actually a very, very nice... y'know... for a Winter Witch of Irrisen." I'm playing her as Neutral, she won't automatically go for the kill but if someone dies, meh, it happens.
This means that while she's a really decent person for someone of her backround, nascent demon lords aren't automaticlaly disqualified :)
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In my RoW campaign, I adopted the Norse gods for the barbarian tribes of the Lands of the Linnorm Kings, my cleric is a cleric of Thor, and had the Irriseni region refer to them as the "old gods" due to the fact that Baba Yaga took over the region a thousand years ago. I jokingly added some small chapels to Baba Yaga in the small villages that the PCs visited. Stating that the clergy that worshipped Baba Yaga couldn't use divine magic but promoted her worship as a way to try and gain favor with the Old Crone for her next visit. I also adapted Auril the Frostmaiden from Forgotten Realms. She would be perfect for the ice witches, if you are cool with that. (pun intended)
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The introduction of some of the Egyptian gods as Osirioni gods does certainly open up the possibility of using real world religions.
Skadi and Ullr both seem like appropriately winter-y gods, from the Norse pantheon. Hodr is also associated with winter, but more famous for unintentionally killing Balder and setting off Ragnarok. Bad Hodr!
The Celtic Cailleach also fits nicely.
Zon Kuthonism shows everyone how hard core decadent a noble jadwiga you are. It is a status symbol marker.
Lamashtu is the way to go if you are after demon pacts.
Pharasma is mostly for the Ulfen serfs.
Many don't care that much.
The Irrisen book mentions that some goblin tribes have taken up worshipping Baba Yaga as a Goddess, even though she is not one.
Let us know what you eventually choose!
It kinda depends on what type of Winter Witch your playing (aka the Archetype and Prestige Class don't have Alignment prerequisites). Since you mentioned Irrisen then I'm guessing your Winter Witch either lives there or once lived there. I believe you also mentioned the word "Elf"? Are you referring to Snowcaster Elves? If so, consider how the Daughters of Baba Yaga would treat an outsider (not to mention an Elf) being inducted into their ranks. You could be a Rogue Winter Witch fleeing Irrisen (or simply venturing off on your own due to not wanting to be under Baba Yaga's heel) for "warmer lands". There is an CG Empyreal Lord of winter, ice, and snow I believe (can't remember his name though).
Well my Winter Witch whorshipped Calistria. Mostly because the religion is very rules lite.
But also vengence is a dish best served cold...
I could see Thremyr as having a decent sized following as the supposed creator of frost giants, ice trolls, and winter wolves. Especially considering 1) the relatively high status of at least two of those groups in Irrisen and 2) his existence as the "true" god of frost giants, instead of that bumbling fool (at least, that's how the Jadwiga would see it) Kostchtchie.
Looking at a potentially different background, it would definitely be a very easy fit for a character that took Eldritch Heritage (Boreal bloodline); maybe one of the character's ancestors got a bit too friendly with their frost giant allies...
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Good catch, Dragonchess Player. Thremyr's ties to the ice trolls and winter wolves would seem to make him a good choice for some Winter Witches. (Others might hold their frost-beastie army regulars as beneath them, and prefer more erudite patrons, but there's also the advantage of Thremyr being a very 'hands-off' sort of god, and unlikely to restrict a Witches personal agenda, assuming he even notices that she exists...)
Given that even those creatures 'spawned' from him did so more by falling off and rising to life, than through any sort of intercourse, it's also more on-theme with Thremyr for a 'bloodline' to have more to do with contact with (or ingestion of) ice or snow that may have fallen from his body in the ages when he walked the lands, with great glaciers of ice perhaps representing ancient 'footprints,' and being filled with ice that is millennia old and, in some cases, fell from the body of a god (to have unpredictable effects on those who ingest it...).
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I am playing in a Kingmaker campaign a NG winter witch who is an adept to the Green Faith. Said character doesn't really belong to Irrisen as she was born in Brevoy and belongs to the Medvyed family, but during her late childhood her father was hired as the bodyguard of a quite troublesome stilyagi and she moved with him to Irrisen, spending most of her teenager years in Chillblight and learning the arts of the winter witches, always careful to not display her good nature openly. The background of the Medvyed family and the contact with the fae in Chillblight made her embrace the spirituality of the Green Faith.
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I've always had there be an unofficial "Hero Cult" that the Jadwiga for Baba Yaga. That and given the fact that the Witch class seems to be the most favored class for the Jadwiga, and they can grant healing, the Jadwiga are no big on religion. I'm not saying that religion doesn't exist, I'm saying that churches aren't so powerful in Irrisan.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well Ksenia 'worships' Pharasma but really she reveres Baba Yaga*. As Set mentioned, earth deities might have cults in Golarion, so if she's Jadwiga, maybe one of the pagan Russia/Slavicn deities? Marzanna looks like a natural fit.
*