So who does (or does not) wants to release the Whispering Tyrant?

[Snow_Tiger]

So the question is:

Who does or does not want to release the Whispering Tyrant? This Includes various factions and individuals.

Maybe we can even invent a few people/types of people as well

1. The Whispering Way- wants the release
2. Lastwall- does not want the release

[Mudfoot]

I suspect the list of people who wants to release him is much, much shorter than that of those who don't. The only ones neutral on the topic have not heard about it.

[Wyrd_Wik]

Re the WW, I'm not sure I would say that is necessarily the case for everyone or even a substantial amount of WW adherents. While they would respect his example, evil necromancers are a pretty ambitious and vain lot and the Tyrant's release would basically ensure they're stuck working for the 'boss'.
But yes as a generalization.

[Cinodem "the Doctor" Noyllopa]

Since anything I might say here can (and likely would) be used against me in a court of law, I regretfully cannot comment further on this topic.

[Louis Lyons]

Very, very, very few people would truly want to release the Whispering Tyrant, and certainly almost no one sane. Even the most evil people would rather become tyrants themselves rather than have to bow and scrape to that psychopathic genocidal undead God King.

Were it made known that someone had a chance and the means to actually release him from his prison, I suspect that a huge number of governments and organizations (good, neutral and evil) would want to put a stop to it immediately.

[Pan]

The vamps in Caliphas most certainly do not want to release the tyrant.

[Cthulhudrew]

Funny thought:

The WT, Runelords, Count Ranalc, and Nex all trapped inside of Nex's Refuge like some sort of fantasy version of Oz (Oswald Penitentiary).

(Rovagug, of course, is in permanent solitary.)

[MMCJawa]

I could see a few really misguided orcs or half orcs who might see his release as a good thing.

If the Worldwound is closed, Asmodeus and Cheliax might also desire it. IIRC, James Jacobs has stated that the Worldwound has been great to Thrune, as it's distracted attention from Cheliax's diabolical dealings. Releasing Whispering Tyrant might do the same thing.

[Axial]

What exactly is keeping him there in the first place? At CR 26/MR 10, can't he just mythic Wish his way out?

[Major_Blackhart]

I'd rather not see him released.
He's not nearly as good a bogey man if he's roaming around.

However, it would be interesting if he was released and he made his way towards Geb.
That would be cool.

[Kairos Dawnfury]

Axial wrote:

What exactly is keeping him there in the first place? At CR 26/MR 10, can't he just mythic Wish his way out?

I assume the seals around Golarion and the shard of Aroden's Shield imbedded in him have something to do with limiting that power.

I also assume they took his spell book away >.>

[archmagi1]

His spell book is a massive pillar in section 9 or 10 of gallowspire. It's not going anywhere.

[Zhangar]

Tar-Baphon's imprisoned by an effect equivalent to a major artifact; Wish can't bypass it.

The Whispering Way in Ustalav region wants him free, along with a handful of undead lords scattered throughout the Principality (like Malyas), and is actively working towards the Tyrant's freedom.

Urgathoa would look favorably upon Tar-Baphon's release, and her church is heavily involved with the Whispering Way.

Pretty much anyone else would view him as a catastrophic threat or unpleasant competition. Tar-Baphon bows before none, and the consequences of bowing to Tar-Baphon are undesirable.

Hell, even some of Tar-Baphon's lieutenants - like the Skeletal Countess of the Garden of Lead would prefer that the Whispering Tyrant remain bottled up, as they've come to value their independence.

[John Kretzer]

Well I think the Whispering Tyrant wants to be free.

I also can see a secret organization in Last Wall who wants him free as they feel the World Wound/Mendev crusade has taken their thunder. Though that group is probably very small.

I can't think of his name right now but the biggest baddest orc warlord in Belkzen but does not want him free...though the orc in second place might.

[Alleran]

Zhangar wrote:

Tar-Baphon's imprisoned by an effect equivalent to a major artifact; Wish can't bypass it.

Wish can bypass major artifacts, depending on the artifact. It's not the "no teleportation or planar travel" thing that would keep a wishport from working. Specifically, it's the "no mortal magic" clause of the Great Seal keeping Tar-Baphon from getting out, since you'd need to be a deity (likely demigod minimum) to no longer count as mortal.

Granted, the way it's worded in Dungeons of Golarion a wishport should actually work, but that's obviously not the intent.

[Espagnoll]

Geb and Arazni will do anything for stop Tar-Baphon, as sure they see him as an insane "happy trigger" maniac with a very old fashioned vision of the world, his release will unleash a mass hysteria undead rising scare which would sure affect Geb at a diplomatic level. The Noktoria ghouls will also be interested to keep the Whispering Tyrant in Gallowspire as his obsession to turn everyone into undeads will put the ghouls civilization to social collapse (pretty much the same for vampires), as they need the living.
There is also the chance Tar-Baphon has changed his mindset during his imprisonment and decide to do a different approach to world conquest.
What if Tar-Baphon pulls out an Ozymandias (Watchmen)/Palpatine strategy?
Instead of conquering Golarin in an active way, he sets in motion a conspiracy for unite those evil and neutral inclined nations into an expansionist campaign trough the other worlds of the solar System with him as the supreme commander?

[Eric "Boxhead" Hindley]

To be perfectly reasonable, there's almost certainly someone in Lastwall that wants to free the Tyrant, so they can put an end to him, "once and for all". I'm sure it's not a good idea, but there's bound to be some Int 7 paladin in there somewhere...

[Fabius Maximus]

John Kretzer wrote:

Well I think the Whispering Tyrant wants to be free.

I also can see a secret organization in Last Wall who wants him free as they feel the World Wound/Mendev crusade has taken their thunder. Though that group is probably very small.

I can't think of his name right now but the biggest baddest orc warlord in Belkzen but does not want him free...though the orc in second place might.

Similarly, desperate people in Mendev or Ustalav could want him free because the first thing he'd do (after subjugating Ustalav) would be going for the Worldwound.

[carmachu]

Fabius Maximus wrote:

Similarly, desperate people in Mendev or Ustalav could want him free because the first thing he'd do (after subjugating Ustalav) would be going for the Worldwound.

Now that's an interesting idea. Almost popcorn by the fire watching the end of the world kinda show.

[TheWarriorPoet519]

Espagnoll wrote:

Geb and Arazni will do anything for stop Tar-Baphon, as sure they see him as an insane "happy trigger" maniac with a very old fashioned vision of the world, his release will unleash a mass hysteria undead rising scare which would sure affect Geb at a diplomatic level. The Noktoria ghouls will also be interested to keep the Whispering Tyrant in Gallowspire as his obsession to turn everyone into undeads will put the ghouls civilization to social collapse (pretty much the same for vampires), as they need the living.

There is also the chance Tar-Baphon has changed his mindset during his imprisonment and decide to do a different approach to world conquest.
What if Tar-Baphon pulls out an Ozymandias (Watchmen)/Palpatine strategy?
Instead of conquering Golarin in an active way, he sets in motion a conspiracy for unite those evil and neutral inclined nations into an expansionist campaign trough the other worlds of the solar System with him as the supreme commander?

I've always fancied the idea that Tar-Baphon might have contacts/allies on Eox, and fancy the idea of his rising as the precursor to a planetary crisis-level event undead invasion.

[Black Dougal]

The Stonecuuters do not want to see him free. They are also responsible for keeping the metric system down, amoung other things.

[Rakshaka]

I thought The Whispering Tyrant made Steve Guttenberg a star..

On Allies: I seem to remember reading something about ties to Runelord Zutha, so maybe he could count that slumbering runelord as an ally. What might be neat is if Tar Baphon as the Whispering Tyrant was in fact Zutha possessing him the whole time.

[Alleran]

Rakshaka wrote:

On Allies: I seem to remember reading something about ties to Runelord Zutha, so maybe he could count that slumbering runelord as an ally.

There's only room for one Undead Wizard Tyrant, as far as either of them would probably be concerned. Tar-Baphon did make use of Zutha's Cenotaph in life to gain mastery of necromancy, but I doubt that he'd be willing to share at this point.

Not that Zutha would have much of a chance. He's CR 20 (or 19, or 21, but the main thing is that he's just a little bit weaker than Karzoug). Tar-Baphon is CR 26 and very mythic. Zutha would almost certainly be crushed.

[leo1925]

Alleran wrote:

Rakshaka wrote:

On Allies: I seem to remember reading something about ties to Runelord Zutha, so maybe he could count that slumbering runelord as an ally.

There's only room for one Undead Wizard Tyrant, as far as either of them would probably be concerned. Tar-Baphon did make use of Zutha's Cenotaph in life to gain mastery of necromancy, but I doubt that he'd be willing to share at this point.

Not that Zutha would have much of a chance. He's CR 20 (or 19, or 21, but the main thing is that he's just a little bit weaker than Karzoug). Tar-Baphon is CR 26 and very mythic. Zutha would almost certainly be crushed.

Where did you get that Zutha (the runelord of Gluttony) is weaker than Karzoug? I know that the runelord of Envy is the weaker of the lot (as it usually was in the days of Thassilon) but i don't remember reading that Zutha is weaker than Karzoug.

[Mojorat]

I was under the impression the runelord of gluttony was the weakest of the runelords. or was that sloth?

Anyhow i think the key thing with releasing the whispering tyrant is at the end of the day the people who want him released dont really want him released. they want the power that he represents. we're not really discussing a field here were there is room at the pinnacle of power for more than one person.

I think hed be more likely to be released by somone trying to claim his power and screwing it up.

[Randarak]

People who are hard of hearing would not want him released.

Librarians and movie-goers wouldn't mind it so much.

[Major_Blackhart]

leo1925 wrote:

Where did you get that Zutha (the runelord of Gluttony) is weaker than Karzoug? I know that the runelord of Envy is the weaker of the lot (as it usually was in the days of Thassilon) but i don't remember reading that Zutha is weaker than Karzoug.

Word of God from James Jacobs I believe, can't remember where it was quoted, perhaps Shattered Star, that the power level is as follows from Strongest to Weakest among the Runelords:

Xanderghul

Sorshen

Alaznist

Karzoug

Belimarius

Zutha

Krune

Now, I can't remember EXACTLY where Belimarius was on that scale, but that's about right I believe. However, this doesn't represent nation power either. For instance, nobody SCREWED with Krune, as he was high priest to Lissala and had allegedly mastered rune magic. Now whether he could be arsed to actually use it is another matter. Man was notoriously lazy and difficult to motivate.

What's interesting is how Zutha's lands, which encompassed Belkzen, became virtually dead and lifeless after earthfall. Before then they were supposedly lush and full of food, and in fact Zutha was the main food exporter to the rest of the Empire. Now, here's a thought. Zutha's form of necromancy wasn't Lichdom in the normal sense. Liches, Grave knights, they can't feel anything, smell anything, taste anything. Their senses are kaput. Zutha COULD. However, his body was continuously rotting, needing constant replenishment.

Now, his soul is housed in a phylactery separated into three parts, yes? But his body has been confirmed to be at the bottom of that Cenotaph. What if Zutha, through some major act of evil debased necromancy, was the reason that his region dried up and died, not earthfall? Would it be unreasonable to believe that he realized he'd need a TON of life and nourishment to preserve his body over the coming era, assuming things got a little amiss? Is it possible that his Cenotaph actually sucks life energy and nourishment, etc, out of the surrounding region in order to preserve his body and whatever else is down there? Maybe that is what powers his runewell, if he uses one as Karzoug did, to keep his body safe.

Maybe this: Kill Zutha, and you all of a sudden get a lot more life in the region.

It's crazy, but the Runelords were incredibly selfish and self centered individuals. Nothing is beyond them with regards to who or what they'd sacrifice to ensure their survival.

Now think on that suckas!

[Mystic_Snowfang]

For not releasing him

I'm gonna go with...anyone who's got at least a partial sense of self preservation.

[TheWarriorPoet519]

I can see some Daemons being cool with the idea.

[Alleran]

leo1925 wrote:

Where did you get that Zutha (the runelord of Gluttony) is weaker than Karzoug? I know that the runelord of Envy is the weaker of the lot (as it usually was in the days of Thassilon) but i don't remember reading that Zutha is weaker than Karzoug.

James Jacobs has mentioned it before. Order goes something like:

Xanderghul (full mythic + another 1-2 CR), Sorshen (full mythic), Alaznist (one or two CR above Karzoug), Karzoug (CR 21), Zutha (just below Karzoug), Belimarius (below Zutha), Krune (CR 18, weakest of the Runelords)

Major_Blackhart wrote:

Now whether he could be arsed to actually use it is another matter. Man was notoriously lazy and difficult to motivate.

Hey, he's not that lazy. He'll use it. Maybe tomorrow, after his morning nap.

Quote:

Is it possible that his Cenotaph actually sucks life energy and nourishment, etc, out of the surrounding region in order to preserve his body and whatever else is down there?

The Cenotaph seems to function on the principle that it draws (or at least opens onto) negative energy from the plane of the same name, and that this is what's empowering it rather than the equivalent of "life" energy (positive energy?). Additionally:

"Thus, he [Zutha] embraced undeath and retreated into an austere monolith known as the Cenotaph on the eastern edge of his realm to wait out the devastation brought about by the aboleths' wrath." ~Mythic Realms

This would indicate that, as part of the note that Zutha finally embraced undeath when Earthfall was approaching, he used the Cenotaph and the extraplanar gateway to the negative energy plane that it was built to access likely as a means of supplying his undead body with the necessary power. It's mentioned that prior to Earthfall he used the necromantic energy for other pursuits, such as empowering his undead armies.

(It still sort of puzzles me sometimes that Zutha, despite creating the Cenotaph, a place that grants a moment of ascension and/or mythic power, was not mythic himself, or didn't have at least one mythic tier or rank somewhere in his arsenal.)

[scrmwrtr42]

I'm working on a campaign wherein the BB has been cursed with immortality and has been alive for millennia (haven't come up with the reason, yet, or the mechanics of the actual immortality). He's managed to create an identity for himself and has positioned himself as one of Lord Gyr's most trusted advisors. After the PCs meet him they will (hopefully) come to see him as a steadfast ally and mentor.

Somewhat like the priest in that lame Demi Moore movie 'Seventh Sign' he's come up with a way to destroy Golarion, thinking this is the way he will end his eternal punishment. He has found a way to release Rovagug, and has, in effect, begun to worship the Rough Beast. Of course, if anyone, Gods, mortals, demons, etc., knew that someone was running around trying to free the Beast, they would rush to stop them. So, the BB figures he needs someone to block tackle, and has also found out how to release Tar-Baphon, as well. If the WT is coming loose, most will be so intent on stopping him they'll never notice the other stuff going on.

Any ideas to help cement this plot line?

[scrmwrtr42]

I hope I didn't kill/hijack this thread. Come on, guys...no one has any ideas for me? Or observations about a villain wanting to use the release of TB as a smokescreen?

[The black raven]

OP : Undead Aroden wants to release the WT. You do not want to know why.

scrmwrtr42 : Your BBEG was fated to defeat Aroden and usurp his place. Too bad that fate and prophecies went belly-up before he could do it. In a way, releasing the WT is his way to retaliate against Aroden, in addition to providing a decent smokescreen and identifying potential enemies by checking (though the PCs and otherwise) who comes to the rescue. He will then find ways to incapacitate / distract / convert these would-be world saviors.

[Rakshaka]

Alright, from Shadows at Gallowspire some of his allies that would want him returned:

Geir LE male Demilich. Here's the interesting quote: "...Geir is likely the first to investigate events there, sending a number of his skull sages (intelligent beheaded and demiliches(!)). Demiliches plural? Also, his description leads me to believe that Geir is in fact awakened since he doesn't seem to be suffering from the Torpor associated with his kind. A swarm of demi-liches.. yikes.

Kaltestrua CE female marilith. Ally of the Whispering Tyrant, in charge of the fallen mage academy Casnoriva.

Malyas Vampire AntiPaladin (Urgathoa) 17. His biggest vampiric supporter and leader of the purge that wiped a number of vampires during the Tyrant's war.

Sairianthrine NE male Devourer Most of the listed allies don't get into class levels, so I can only assume this guy's got some. It talks about Tar-Baphon bargaining with this guy for "secrets, souls or stranger currencies". Anyone Tar-Baphon owes a favor to is probably more than a simple CR 11 dude.

Sicnavier V Great Wyrm Umbral Dragon. Not necessarily an ally but a factor in his release due to the proximity of his lair in the Hungry Mountains. Of a significant enough power that TB would have to either immediately enlist his aid or spend consider resources trying to destroy him.

Besides these, I would list ALL Nightshades as having similar goals to his; the eradication of all life. This is why he doesn't sit well with Vampires and Ghouls, who require mortals for sustenance.

[Reggie]

His mum would probably like him to be freed, provided he's home again before eleven thirty.

Reggie.

[Mary Yamato]

_Tyrant's Grasp_ says there's a faction among the Knights of Orem that wants to defeat him, and thinks letting him out is a necessary first step to glorious victory.

[CorvusMask]

Ah the old days when it wasn't clear that Seal-Breakers was separate organization from Whispering Way xD

[Yqatuba]

Tyrant's Grasp Spoiler:

He got out in Gallows Of Gardenspire. As he was destroyed at the end of the AP, he may be trapped once more.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Yqatuba wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Tyrant's Grasp SPOILERS!:

While he has reformed his body, he's not trapped again. He's reclaimed his old base of operations on the Isle of Dread, where he's plotting his next moves (and sulking after the thorough humiliation Arazni and the Tyrant's Grasp PCs served him!).

[Tarondor]

"The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."

- Ambassador Kosh, Vorlon Empire

[TheWarriorPoet519]

Oh man talk about thread... necromancy.

Zing.