UlrichVonLichtenstein |
Attempting to build a Two Weapon Fighting Rogue. There's just one problem; I've never even messed with Two Weapon Fighting until now!
So if anybodies got any cool builds they'd like to show, this would be the place to do it. Please & Thank you!
Here's what I've got so far, we're using a 15 point buy system, building characters with Myth Weavers
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=758552
Thanks Again!
bfobar |
I'd probably want my str a little higher so I wouldn't have a damage penalty, and then would probably go straight dagger. (1d3 dagger vs 1d4 short sword small size). Maybe take a look at the knife master archtype to beef up your sneaks. The scount archtype is also a favorite due to being able to give more sneak opportunities. Getting your attack bonus as high as possible is your priority in combat.
Use magic device, disable device, and escape artist are good rogue skills that you lack.
I would personally get rid of diplomacy, knowledge(dungeoneering and local), sense motive, or sleight of hand in favor of those skills.
What will be your out of combat purpose? If you have full casters in the group, magic traps aren't that big of a deal. If you have a high cha character with diplomacy in the party, you may be able to have a lower charisma. Halflings can scout really well so you could look at super stealthy setups. Also there is the "fleet of foot" alternate halfling race trait which speeds the little guys up nicely. I think this is super useful if you want to run over to a flank position.
Rerednaw |
Okies, there are several threads on rogues...one of the more recent was
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qcif?Ladies-and-Gentlemen-Its-time-we-made-the #1
Unless you have a *long* time :) I'd search the thread for builds. Be advised some folks got pretty passionate about their views...but there were some very good suggestions, tips, and even full on builds in there.
:)
Honorable Goblin |
Here's a rough build up to 10th level:
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 14 Cha 12 [Alternatively: Str 11 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 12 Cha 14]; all level up's into Dex
Race Traits: Small, Fleet of Foot (Alternate), Fearless, Halfling Luck, Keen Senses, Weapon Familiarity
Traits: River Rat (+1 damage w/ Daggers) & Indomitable Faith (+1 Will)
Favored Class: Rogue - put the bonus into either HP or Halfling FCB (+1/2 bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls with daggers, max +4, doesn't stack with Critical Focus)
Skills: Max out at least Bluff, Disable Device, Perception, and Use Magic Devise; Acrobatics, Sense Motive, and Stealth are good too (and you have enough points to keep them maxed as well)
Feats & Rogue Talents:
01 Two-Weapon Fighting
02 Finesse Rogue (Weapon Finesse) [RT]
03 [Rang] Combat Expertise
04 [Rang] Weapon Focus (Dagger) [via Ranger]
05 Two-Weapon Feint
06 Combat Trick (Shadow Strike)[RT]
07 Great Fortitude or Iron Will or Skill Focus (Bluff) or Skill Focus (UMD)
08 Ninja Trick (Combat Trick (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting)) [RT]
09 Improved Two-Weapon Feint
10 Skill Mastery (Acrobatics, Bluff, Perception, UMD) [RT]
Alternatively, take the Minor Magic (acid splash or message or something) talent at 6th level, and Arcane Strike feat at 7th.
Knife Master gives you d8 SA dice with daggers (and a few other weapons). Scout lets you get SA when you charge (at 4th level) and later when you just move more than 10 feet (8th level).
Trapper Ranger archetype gives you back Trapfinding, and Guide ranger archetype allows you to once per day get +2 attack/damage against the target of your choice (you could drop Guide if you know you'll be fighting a lot of the same type of enemies in order to get that +2 more times per day).
Note that for the ranger Natural Weapon combat style, it does not appear to limit the bonus Weapon Focus to a natural weapon; talk to your GM to make sure this is how he will run it. If he disagrees, maybe go with TWF combat style and get Quick Draw (unless you're willing to delay TWF, in which case take Weapon Finesse feat at 1st, Weapon Training (dagger) RT at 2nd, and TWF feat at 4th).
EDIT: I did not include gear because I suck at picking it, but you'll definitely want to eventually pick up 2 Agile Daggers and probably a Cloak of Resistance.
Also, avoid Power Attack/Piranha Strike as a TWF Rogue; they will actually decrease your damage since your attack bonus isn't high enough to support the to hit penalty.
DOUBLE EDIT: I messed up the feat progression originally. It should be fixed now.
Honorable Goblin |
Another, slightly different build:
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 14 Cha 12 [Alternatively: Str 11 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 12 Cha 14]; all level up's into Dex
Race Traits: Small, Fleet of Foot (Alternate), Fearless, Halfling Luck, Keen Senses, Weapon Familiarity
Traits: River Rat (+1 damage w/ Daggers) & Indomitable Faith (+1 Will)
Favored Class: Rogue - put the bonus into either HP or Halfling FCB (+1/2 bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls with daggers, max +4, doesn't stack with Critical Focus)
Skills: Fighter gets fewer skill points than ranger so Bluff and Use Magic Devise are top priority, Perception is close behind, then Acrobatics, Sense Motive, and Stealth. You could put points into Disable Device, but you don't get Trapfinding.
Feats & Rogue Talents:
01 Two-Weapon Fighting
02 Finesse Rogue (Weapon Finesse) [RT]
03 [Fighter] Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Feint
04 [Fighter] Weapon Focus (Dagger)
05 [Fighter] Shadow Strike
06
07 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Trick (Improved Two-Weapon Feint) [RT]
08
09 Feat of your choice, Rogue Talent of your choice (possibly Minor Magic and Arcane Strike)
10
11 Feat of your choice, Skill Mastery (Acrobatics, Bluff, Perception, UMD) [RT]
With this build you will want to get Gloves of Dueling. They advance your Weapon Training by +2 (for a net of +3 attack/damage).
Overall, this build gains +1 Will save, a combat feat, a +1 bonus to CMD against disarm and sunder attempts while wielding a dagger that also applies on saves against any effect that targets your dagger (for example, grease, heat metal, shatter, warp wood), and a flat +1 or +3 bonus to attack/damage (as opposed to a situational +2 bonus); it loses +3 Ref save, some skill points, and Trapfinding. It also "comes on-line" bit earlier.
A side note regarding both builds: You could drop Indomitable Faith for Alluring (daze as an SLA, CL = Character Level) to save a talent and get better damage progression.
UlrichVonLichtenstein |
I'd probably want my str a little higher so I wouldn't have a damage penalty, and then would probably go straight dagger. (1d3 dagger vs 1d4 short sword small size). Maybe take a look at the knife master archtype to beef up your sneaks. The scount archtype is also a favorite due to being able to give more sneak opportunities. Getting your attack bonus as high as possible is your priority in combat.
Use magic device, disable device, and escape artist are good rogue skills that you lack.
I would personally get rid of diplomacy, knowledge(dungeoneering and local), sense motive, or sleight of hand in favor of those skills.
What will be your out of combat purpose? If you have full casters in the group, magic traps aren't that big of a deal. If you have a high cha character with diplomacy in the party, you may be able to have a lower charisma. Halflings can scout really well so you could look at super stealthy setups. Also there is the "fleet of foot" alternate halfling race trait which speeds the little guys up nicely. I think this is super useful if you want to run over to a flank position.
What do you suggest I drop to raise the Strength score? Bear in mind, I'm having to keep to a 15-point buy. So there's not much room to make sure I got the Dex/Int it takes to be a decent rogue + the Str on top.
UlrichVonLichtenstein |
I'm also looking for which Feats I ought to take and when to take them. I'm not all that experienced with Two Weapon Fighting and it's been ages since I've played in a PF game.
I just remember being really interested in a TWF Rogue for some reason.
So yeah, Feats? I remember reading something about needing a basic Feat called "Two Weapon Fighting" to even get started?
Honorable Goblin |
Here's a fixed version of the Rogue/Fighter build I posted (the one above takes Skill Mastery too early and uses a 20-point buy).
Str 08 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 12 Cha 12; all level up's into Dex
Racial Traits: Small, Fleet of Foot (Alternate), Fearless, Halfling Luck, Keen Senses, Weapon Familiarity
Traits: River Rat (+1 damage w/ Daggers) & Trap Finder (+1 Disable Device, able to disable magical traps)
Favored Class: Rogue - put the bonus into either HP or Halfling FCB (+1/2 bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls with daggers, max +4, doesn't stack with Critical Focus)
Skills: Bluff=Use Magic Devise>Perception=Disable Device>Acrobatics=Sense Motive=Stealth (You have enough skill points to max all of these skills and then some)
Feats & Rogue Talents:
LvL-----Class-----Feat/Talent
01- [Rogue 01] Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting
02- [Rogue 02] Talent: Finesse Rogue
03- [Fighter 01] Feat: Combat Expertise, Bonus Feat: Improved Feint
04- [Fighter 02] Bonus Feat: Shadow Strike
05- [Fighter 03] Feat: Skill Fonus (UMD)
06- [Rogue 03]
07- [Rogue 04] Feat: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Talent: Combat Trick (Improved Two-Weapon Feint)
08- [Rogue 05]
09- [Rogue 06] Feat: Skill Focus (Bluff), Talent: Weapon Training (Dagger)
10- [Rogue 07]
11- [Rogue 08] Feat: Arcane Strike, Talent: Minor Magic (Acid Splash or Message)
12- [Rogue 09]
13- [Rogue 10] Feat: Risky Striker (scroll down), Talent: Skill Mastery (Acrobatics, Bluff, Perception, UMD)
14- [Rogue 11]
15- [Rogue 12] Feat: Iron Will, Talent: Crippling Strike
16- [Rogue 13]
17- [Rogue 14] Feat: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Talent: Hard Minded
18- [Rogue 15]
19- [Rogue 16] Feat: Gang Up, Talent: Hunter's Surprise (scroll down)
20- [Rogue 17]
This is absolutely not an "optimized" feat selection (at least past 7th level) so feel free to change up the order or substitute your own selections.
UlrichVonLichtenstein |
Here's a fixed version of the Rogue/Fighter build I posted (the one above takes Skill Mastery too early and uses a 20-point buy).
** spoiler omitted **...
Uh. This one still uses the 20 point buy. It's cool though. I should be able to edit that no problem, based on what you've given. Danke.