paizo.com Recent Posts in Fan fighter - advice?paizo.com Recent Posts in Fan fighter - advice?2014-01-10T15:53:34Z2014-01-10T15:53:34ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Umbranushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#342014-01-13T12:22:18Z2014-01-13T12:22:18Z<p>As the bard is not only for the proficiency but is giving me archaeologist's luck, too this idea doesn't help for this build but I will keep it in mind.</p>As the bard is not only for the proficiency but is giving me archaeologist's luck, too this idea doesn't help for this build but I will keep it in mind.Umbranus2014-01-13T12:22:18ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Eltacolibrehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#332014-01-13T11:49:17Z2014-01-13T11:49:17Z<p>I expected to see Mai Shiranui, I'm disappointed.</p>I expected to see Mai Shiranui, I'm disappointed.Eltacolibre2014-01-13T11:49:17ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Imbicatushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#322014-01-13T11:46:07Z2014-01-13T11:46:07Z<p>I just thought of another way to get "proficiency" in fighting fan without the need for a bard level. Monk of the empty hand using it as an improvised weapon. You treat all light weapons as a light hammer and can flurry with it. Combined with improvised weapon mastery, the fan becomes a d6 19-20/x2 weapon. If you have sneak attack catch off guard lets all of your attack against unarmed opponents treat them as flat footed, and ninja is appropriate to the concept.</p>I just thought of another way to get "proficiency" in fighting fan without the need for a bard level. Monk of the empty hand using it as an improvised weapon. You treat all light weapons as a light hammer and can flurry with it. Combined with improvised weapon mastery, the fan becomes a d6 19-20/x2 weapon. If you have sneak attack catch off guard lets all of your attack against unarmed opponents treat them as flat footed, and ninja is appropriate to the concept.Imbicatus2014-01-13T11:46:07ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Umbranushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#312014-01-13T10:54:10Z2014-01-13T10:54:10Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mystically Inclined wrote:</div><blockquote> Wow, I <b>really</b> like this. It shifts the concept from dancing dervish to stylish distractor, but it's much closer to the flavor of the concept than any builds I've been able to come up with. I'll have to whip up a sample build if I get some free time. </blockquote><p>If you find the time feel free to post it here. I'm looking forward to seeing it.
</p>
For my build the katana + fighting fan will not work because I see him as someone who looks harmless/defenceless, who is just carrying his deisho around as a status symbol (which is true).
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You know the type, they look good, know to talk but once swords are drawn the are in for trouble. That's what he pretends to be. In fact he looks good, knows how to talk and once swords are drawn enemies are in for a surprise when the tessen (fighting fan) hits them.</p>Mystically Inclined wrote:Wow, I really like this. It shifts the concept from dancing dervish to stylish distractor, but it's much closer to the flavor of the concept than any builds I've been able to come up with. I'll have to whip up a sample build if I get some free time.
If you find the time feel free to post it here. I'm looking forward to seeing it.
For my build the katana + fighting fan will not work because I see him as someone who looks harmless/defenceless, who is just carrying...Umbranus2014-01-13T10:54:10ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Mystically Inclinedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#302014-01-11T19:57:05Z2014-01-11T19:57:05Z<p>Wow, I <b>really</b> like this. It shifts the concept from dancing dervish to stylish distractor, but it's much closer to the flavor of the concept than any builds I've been able to come up with. I'll have to whip up a sample build if I get some free time.</p>Wow, I really like this. It shifts the concept from dancing dervish to stylish distractor, but it's much closer to the flavor of the concept than any builds I've been able to come up with. I'll have to whip up a sample build if I get some free time.Mystically Inclined2014-01-11T19:57:05ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Diebenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#292014-01-11T19:47:14Z2014-01-11T19:47:14Z<p>I am currently running a Palabardanger who wields a fighting fan. Granted, due to the limitations of the weapon, it borders on impossible to become a primary damage dealer. However, the following build would allow even the most meager of allies to become valuable assets in combat.
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]</p>I am currently running a Palabardanger who wields a fighting fan. Granted, due to the limitations of the weapon, it borders on impossible to become a primary damage dealer. However, the following build would allow even the most meager of allies to become valuable assets in combat.
[Spoiler omitted]Dieben2014-01-11T19:47:14ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Umbranushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#282014-01-11T19:39:34Z2014-01-11T19:39:34Z<p>On my build from the first posting:</p>
<p>I will try several ways to continue this build before I decide which to use. One Idea I have right now is the urban barbarian with the spirit totem line.</p>
<p>I'll stick to my +1 weapon and will not include other magic items as I don't know how much of what I get I can plan.</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>On my build from the first posting:
I will try several ways to continue this build before I decide which to use. One Idea I have right now is the urban barbarian with the spirit totem line.
I'll stick to my +1 weapon and will not include other magic items as I don't know how much of what I get I can plan.
[Spoiler omitted]Umbranus2014-01-11T19:39:34ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Umbranushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#272014-01-11T19:04:55Z2014-01-11T19:04:55Z<p>Alternative build ideas: </p>
<p><b>Kensai</b>
<br />
Less static damage leads to main damage output through spells. Stylish but vastly inferior to high threat weapon builds.</p>
<p><b>Samurai</b>
<br />
Little base damage but viable during challenge.</p>
<p><b>Warpriest</b>
<br />
Boosts the base damage and uses full BAB for sacred weapons. Best for pure builds. </p>
<p><b>Feint builds</b>
<br />
I got no experience with feint builds at all but I could see a build using a katana in the main hand and a fighting fan in the offhand, using the fan to faint.
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That way you get the style, the feint bonus and the good primary weapon.</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>Alternative build ideas:
Kensai
Less static damage leads to main damage output through spells. Stylish but vastly inferior to high threat weapon builds.
Samurai
Little base damage but viable during challenge.
Warpriest
Boosts the base damage and uses full BAB for sacred weapons. Best for pure builds.
Feint builds
I got no experience with feint builds at all but I could see a build using a katana in the main hand and a fighting fan in the offhand, using the fan to faint.
That way you get...Umbranus2014-01-11T19:04:55ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Mystically Inclinedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#262014-01-11T17:59:50Z2014-01-11T17:59:50Z<p>So can anyone think of any alternatives for the build?</p>So can anyone think of any alternatives for the build?Mystically Inclined2014-01-11T17:59:50ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Umbranushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#252014-01-11T10:25:27Z2014-01-11T10:25:27Z<p>Yes, that's the point.
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The geisha doesn't loose anything important and gives me the weapon prof, scribe scroll and changes bardic knowledge into more fitting skills.</p>
<p>With 10 minutes tea ceremony for 10 minutes effect duration it's hardly usable in the first place. Which is sad. Because the idea is quite nice.</p>Yes, that's the point.
The geisha doesn't loose anything important and gives me the weapon prof, scribe scroll and changes bardic knowledge into more fitting skills.
With 10 minutes tea ceremony for 10 minutes effect duration it's hardly usable in the first place. Which is sad. Because the idea is quite nice.Umbranus2014-01-11T10:25:27ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Imbicatushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#242014-01-11T05:04:38Z2014-01-11T05:04:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Dieben wrote:</div><blockquote> While someone can take both Geisha and Archaeologist legally, the benefits of the Tea Ceremony ability of the Geisha would be nonexistent since the Archaeologist has no "Bardic Performance" rounds. </blockquote><p>geisha is there for the proficiency in one monk weapon, which is the entire point of the build. Otherwise to get fighting fan you would need to take unarmed fighter instead of brawler, or waste a feat on it. You could also use the half elf ancestral arms trait, but I'm sue that the fighting fan wasn't what they intended for that trait.Dieben wrote:While someone can take both Geisha and Archaeologist legally, the benefits of the Tea Ceremony ability of the Geisha would be nonexistent since the Archaeologist has no "Bardic Performance" rounds.
geisha is there for the proficiency in one monk weapon, which is the entire point of the build. Otherwise to get fighting fan you would need to take unarmed fighter instead of brawler, or waste a feat on it. You could also use the half elf ancestral arms trait, but I'm sue that the...Imbicatus2014-01-11T05:04:38ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Diebenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#232014-01-11T04:54:38Z2014-01-11T04:54:38Z<p>While someone can take both Geisha and Archaeologist legally, the benefits of the Tea Ceremony ability of the Geisha would be nonexistent since the Archaeologist has no "Bardic Performance" rounds.</p>While someone can take both Geisha and Archaeologist legally, the benefits of the Tea Ceremony ability of the Geisha would be nonexistent since the Archaeologist has no "Bardic Performance" rounds.Dieben2014-01-11T04:54:38ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Mystically Inclinedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#222014-01-10T21:52:09Z2014-01-10T21:52:09Z<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>Seriously though, that is <b>really</b> good news to hear. :)</p>[Spoiler omitted]
Seriously though, that is really good news to hear. :)Mystically Inclined2014-01-10T21:52:09ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?LoneKnavehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#212014-01-10T21:38:04Z2014-01-10T21:38:04Z<p>Actually, it was mentioned in the ACG Duelist discussion that there probably will be a feat like Dervish dance for other weapons.</p>Actually, it was mentioned in the ACG Duelist discussion that there probably will be a feat like Dervish dance for other weapons.LoneKnave2014-01-10T21:38:04ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Imbicatushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#202014-01-10T21:13:59Z2014-01-10T21:13:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mystically Inclined wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Works for me!</p>
<p>It's moments like this that I •really• wish Dervish Dance applied to more than the scimitar though. :/ </blockquote><p>If only. But it has already been said that dervish dance was made just for Sarenrae followers to do their thing, and the dev team is on record saying it is probably too powerful. I don't expect there will ever be a non-mythic feat that lets you do the same thing with another weapon, and it wouldn't surprise me if they nerf it.Mystically Inclined wrote:Works for me!
It's moments like this that I *really* wish Dervish Dance applied to more than the scimitar though. :/
If only. But it has already been said that dervish dance was made just for Sarenrae followers to do their thing, and the dev team is on record saying it is probably too powerful. I don't expect there will ever be a non-mythic feat that lets you do the same thing with another weapon, and it wouldn't surprise me if they nerf it.Imbicatus2014-01-10T21:13:59ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Mystically Inclinedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#192014-01-10T20:48:36Z2014-01-10T20:48:36Z<p>Works for me!</p>
<p>It's moments like this that I •really• wish Dervish Dance applied to more than the scimitar though. :/</p>Works for me!
It's moments like this that I *really* wish Dervish Dance applied to more than the scimitar though. :/Mystically Inclined2014-01-10T20:48:36ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Umbranushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#182014-01-10T20:39:33Z2014-01-10T20:39:33Z<p>I'd rather not wear heavy armor. Probably stick with light. And the dex focus fits better with the pc flavor than a high strength.
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He should look charming but harmless, hiding the little armor he wears beneath his kimono.
<br />
And I'm not sure I want to worry about sneak attack.</p>I'd rather not wear heavy armor. Probably stick with light. And the dex focus fits better with the pc flavor than a high strength.
He should look charming but harmless, hiding the little armor he wears beneath his kimono.
And I'm not sure I want to worry about sneak attack.Umbranus2014-01-10T20:39:33ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Mystically Inclinedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#172014-01-10T20:30:52Z2014-01-10T20:30:52Z<p>A nice about about Urban Barbarian is that you can apply Rage to multiple things as the situation demands. That means you can apply it to strength until you get agile weapons, then apply it to dexterity.</p>
<p>I notice that you seem to have a single fan in mind for your build. If that's the case, you may want to look into more strength based builds. I started my character concept with flavor purposes. I knew I wanted the character to be dancing dervish with two fans on the battlefield, so I knew I wanted Dex all the way. (On a side note, being able to care only about Dex and Con is incredibly freeing for a martial build.) One of my biggest issues so far (aside from money/feats) is the build mechanics are conflicting with the flavor of the concept for me. I wish there was a trait that allowed Perform (Dance) to be based off Dex.</p>
<p>Since you don't seem worried about TWF, your character could probably benefit from a heavier armor and more focus on strength. Dex builds are nice for flavor and relatively easy AC, but Str builds are usually more effective and easier to build. Do you have a problem with a character that wears heavy armor?</p>
<p>And again, the Freehand Fighter/Vivisectionist is a pretty solid choice as well.</p>A nice about about Urban Barbarian is that you can apply Rage to multiple things as the situation demands. That means you can apply it to strength until you get agile weapons, then apply it to dexterity.
I notice that you seem to have a single fan in mind for your build. If that's the case, you may want to look into more strength based builds. I started my character concept with flavor purposes. I knew I wanted the character to be dancing dervish with two fans on the battlefield, so I knew I...Mystically Inclined2014-01-10T20:30:52ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Umbranushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#162014-01-10T19:52:54Z2014-01-10T19:52:54Z<p>If I manage to get an agile weapon (little money and not sure about magic mart) going urban barbarian might be an option. At least that would give more skillpoints than continuing fighter and coherent rage gives a dex bonus. Most full bab classes would benefit this build in one way or the other. And most would be better than staying fighter after 4th level, I guess.</p>
<p>- Emissiary cavalier for normal speed in medium armor (not sure if I WANT to wear medium)
<br />
- Samurai for weapon proficiencies and other goodies
<br />
- Ranger/slayer for more skillpoints
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- Paladin for divine grace
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- Barbarian: See above</p>
<p>The ones I don't consider are bloodrager (no real benefit of strength rage) and gunslinger.</p>If I manage to get an agile weapon (little money and not sure about magic mart) going urban barbarian might be an option. At least that would give more skillpoints than continuing fighter and coherent rage gives a dex bonus. Most full bab classes would benefit this build in one way or the other. And most would be better than staying fighter after 4th level, I guess.
- Emissiary cavalier for normal speed in medium armor (not sure if I WANT to wear medium)
- Samurai for weapon proficiencies...Umbranus2014-01-10T19:52:54ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Umbranushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#152014-01-10T19:31:07Z2014-01-10T19:31:07Z<p>An easy to make assumption.
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I always wanted to make a pc with flagbearer but I never got around to. This time I just figured that I have a hand free and my cha is high enough so it is an easy to come by static damage bonus.</p>
<p>I'm still arguing with myself whether I should take zest for battle• or mindlessly cruel• via adopted despite neither fitting the pc really. But because of flagbearer it would always be active, giving me a semi-permanent +1 damage bonus.</p>
<p>•both these traits give you a +1 trait bonus to weapon damage while you have a moral bonus to attack.</p>An easy to make assumption.
I always wanted to make a pc with flagbearer but I never got around to. This time I just figured that I have a hand free and my cha is high enough so it is an easy to come by static damage bonus.
I'm still arguing with myself whether I should take zest for battle* or mindlessly cruel* via adopted despite neither fitting the pc really. But because of flagbearer it would always be active, giving me a semi-permanent +1 damage bonus.
*both these traits give you a +1...Umbranus2014-01-10T19:31:07ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Mystically Inclinedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#142014-01-10T18:56:48Z2014-01-10T18:56:48Z<p>True. I fell into the trap of making an unwarranted assumption there. I figured Flagbearer + bard meant at least a minor focus on buffing the party.</p>True. I fell into the trap of making an unwarranted assumption there. I figured Flagbearer + bard meant at least a minor focus on buffing the party.Mystically Inclined2014-01-10T18:56:48ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Umbranushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#132014-01-10T18:41:29Z2014-01-10T18:41:29Z<p>The only thing my build does in the form of group support is flagbearer.</p>The only thing my build does in the form of group support is flagbearer.Umbranus2014-01-10T18:41:29ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Mystically Inclinedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#122014-01-10T18:35:34Z2014-01-10T18:35:34Z<p>Umbranus, one thing I really like about your proposed build is the bard dip. So far most of the builds I've been tossing around wouldn't be very good dancers, and that bothers me. If I were doing this for a home game, I'd ask the GM if I could change the Dawnflower Dervish archetype to apply to Fighting Fans. I think that'd make for a perfect fit for the concept.</p>
<p>I've been more focussed on individual survivability and DPR, while your bard build is more focussed on supporting the group. Hopefully some of my ideas have helped, and I'll definitely be keeping an eye on your build if you continue to go with the concept.</p>Umbranus, one thing I really like about your proposed build is the bard dip. So far most of the builds I've been tossing around wouldn't be very good dancers, and that bothers me. If I were doing this for a home game, I'd ask the GM if I could change the Dawnflower Dervish archetype to apply to Fighting Fans. I think that'd make for a perfect fit for the concept.
I've been more focussed on individual survivability and DPR, while your bard build is more focussed on supporting the group....Mystically Inclined2014-01-10T18:35:34ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Mystically Inclinedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#112014-01-10T18:29:57Z2014-01-10T18:29:57Z<p>Warpriest was actually the first thing I looked at. I dismissed it after working through how feat intensive the build is. Plus, I didn't want to start a Warpriest build only for it to get cut off at the knees when the nerfs came out in the APG. (At this point in time, I had not decided to wait for the APG regardless.) Now that I'm waiting for the APG, I think the Warpriest deserves another look. It still runs into the feat problem though. Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Fighting Fans), Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse, Two Weapon Fighting... I don't think I can fit everything in before level 5. This build has some nice stuff to offer (SPELLS!) but runs into the same cash problems as the Fighter (Brawler)/Barbarian build.</p>
<p>I hadn't looked at Swashbuckler at all. I didn't realize it could use fans. I'd really prefer a two weapon build just because my concept involves two fans, but at this point I'm not sure a TWF fan build is viable in terms of wealth. As a single weapon build it doesn't have the feat or cash problems that the others do, but I don't know what kind of static damage a swashbuckler can get. Can anyone provide a sample swashbuckler build?</p>Warpriest was actually the first thing I looked at. I dismissed it after working through how feat intensive the build is. Plus, I didn't want to start a Warpriest build only for it to get cut off at the knees when the nerfs came out in the APG. (At this point in time, I had not decided to wait for the APG regardless.) Now that I'm waiting for the APG, I think the Warpriest deserves another look. It still runs into the feat problem though. Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Fighting Fans), Weapon...Mystically Inclined2014-01-10T18:29:57ZRe: Forums: Advice: Fan fighter - advice?Umbranushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qk3i?Fan-fighter-advice#102014-01-10T18:28:08Z2014-01-10T18:28:08Z<p>The freebooter would not fit fluff wise and their buff costs a move action. For me those are bigger drawbacks than the increase of close combatant.</p>
<p>In our playtest the swashbuckler didn't work that well and had issues getting panache back, even with a high threat weapon. With a 20x3 weapon like the fighting fan this would be even worse.
<br />
The warpriest could work but give the guy a completely different flavor. With 4 levels (what I'm aiming for with the brawler) he would get an increase in damage die from 1d4 to 1d6 but miss out on the +1/+3 from close combatant. And I don't think he qualifies for weapon spec so he'd miss out on those +2 damage, too.</p>The freebooter would not fit fluff wise and their buff costs a move action. For me those are bigger drawbacks than the increase of close combatant.
In our playtest the swashbuckler didn't work that well and had issues getting panache back, even with a high threat weapon. With a 20x3 weapon like the fighting fan this would be even worse.
The warpriest could work but give the guy a completely different flavor. With 4 levels (what I'm aiming for with the brawler) he would get an increase in...Umbranus2014-01-10T18:28:08Z