Succubus Profane Gift

[Mikhail]

I have a little situation in my campaign.

Player's wizard trapped a succubus (used Planar Binding, Magic Circle against Evil, buffed himself with Heroism, cast Bestow Curse on succubus to drop her saves, even cast Charm Monster on her) and asked her to give him, and his friends (almost all of the other players) Profane Gifts.

Under the effect of Charm Monster our bruised little succubus (they kicked her a little after grappling her and putting manacles on her) gave almost everyone her Profane Gifts, before she could give PG to the last person and be merry on her way back to Abyss, wizard petrified her (Flesh to Stone cast under Invisibility and using Silent Metamagic), then put his new sexy statue behind a wall in his basement.

What little options I have left are:
1) she could use Suggestion on her new gifted "friends" to free her (but she's isolated in wizard's tower highest room)
2) does succubus being petrified have any effect on her Profane Gifts?
3) can she use Suggestion in that state?

Any answers, advices, suggestions (pun intended :p)?

[Melvin the Mediocre]

"turns into a mindless, inert statue"

No, she can't use suggestion while she is a statue. Of course some of her demonic friends may come looking for her. Or another wizard who summoned her a lot.

[Zotpox]

Questions

1. How did they survive the grapple. Auto level drain and auto hit with 2 claws + 6d6 at will vampiric touch with each claw.

2. Profane gift is a one off, How did she give more than one?

3. Removeing the profane gift is "at will" and DRAINS (a.k.a. Perminant) 2d6 CHA with no save.

[Douglas Muir 406]

This is actually pretty clever. Profane Gift is not, in fact, a one-off -- a succubus can hand those suckers out like party favors. So that works.

I'd rule that killing the succubus ganks the gift, myself.

Doug M.

[Mikhail]

Zotpox wrote:

Questions

1. How did they survive the grapple. Auto level drain and auto hit with 2 claws + 6d6 at will vampiric touch with each claw.

2. Profane gift is a one off, How did she give more than one?

3. Removeing the profane gift is "at will" and DRAINS (a.k.a. Perminant) 2d6 CHA with no save.

Ad.1) Wizard used large ettercap fast zombie to grapple a succubus so the rest of the team could put manacles on her and stop her from using spell-like abilities (CN wizard is playing not only with demonology, but necromancy as well :d)

Ad.2) One Profane Gift per person, and use 1/day, so few days later 4 characters out of 6 had PG

Ad.3) She removed her PG the first time (she didn't like one bit that they ganked her and put manacles on her), that's why wizard cast Charm Monster, and win opposed Charisma check to ask her to give Profane Gifts to the rest of characters without any tricks.

Melvin the Mediocre - her demonic lover looking for his better half is actually interesting idea, I'll play with this a little ]:->

[Mojorat]

How did they get her to perform multiple services? Planar binding specifically stipulates one service.

From the spell...
Once the requested service is completed, the creature need only to inform you to be instantly sent back whence it came. The creature might later seek revenge.

Basically what they did is not possible by the rules.

[Mikhail]

Mojorat wrote:

How did they get her to perform multiple services? Planar binding specifically stipulates one service.

From the spell...
Once the requested service is completed, the creature need only to inform you to be instantly sent back whence it came. The creature might later seek revenge.

Basically what they did is not possible by the rules.

What about a service "Give your Profane Gifts to this five people"?

On the last day, before she gave her Profane Gift to the last person, wizard petrified her (to stop her from completing her service and returning to Abyss, also to make her unable to remove Profane Gifts in the future).

The question is, are PGs still working when the donor succubus is petrified?

[Noir le Lotus]

Like Doulgas, I 'm on the side of dead succubus (or petrified succubus) = no more profane gift !!

[Ipslore the Red]

About the third question, he managed to win the check even with 2d6 Charisma drain? As a wizard? I'm somewhat surprised he didn't drop to 1 Charisma and go comatose.

Let's see. A succubus has a Cha mod of +8, heroism gives him a +2, bestow curse gives her a -4, and the charisma drain probably dropped his charisma to... 5 or thereabouts, giving him a -1 on Charisma checks and her a +4. Doable if he rolled well at one or more points.

[Majuba]

I gotta say I think the wizard wins out on this one, let them enjoy it for a while...

Mikhail wrote:

Melvin the Mediocre - her demonic lover looking for his better half is actually interesting idea, I'll play with this a little ]:->

And then this happens.

Of course, it won't be a lover, probably half a dozen of varying power levels (at least one other succubus or incubus of course). Of course, being demons, when they show up they'll more than likely attack each other given half a chance. But one or two of the strongest will probably contend with the party.

After they squeak out of that, they'll probably find one of the very least of them managed a suggestion or other effect to find out where she was and made off with her (even if only to destroy her so she can reform in a month or a century or so - demons have time!)

[Mikhail]

Ipslore the Red wrote:

About the third question, he managed to win the check even with 2d6 Charisma drain? As a wizard? I'm somewhat surprised he didn't drop to 1 Charisma and go comatose.

Let's see. A succubus has a Cha mod of +8, heroism gives him a +2, bestow curse gives her a -4, and the charisma drain probably dropped his charisma to... 5 or thereabouts, giving him a -1 on Charisma checks and her a +4. Doable if he rolled well at one or more points.

He managed to win the opposite check, because he told her to be the fourth person to receive her Profane Gift, not the first. The entire gifting process took few days and he "persuade" her on the first, risking nothing himself and using his companions as labrats.

He's pretty smart, for a wizard anyway :P

[meatrace]

Sounds like precisely the plan I made when first reading the Succubus entry. Kudos!

No this all seems legit to me. Just remember, they will ping as evil for the rest of their days. Make sure that comes up.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Mikhail, are your players likely to read this forum? If yes, drop me a PM.

Doug M.

[Mikhail]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Mikhail, are your players likely to read this forum? If yes, drop me a PM.

Doug M.

No, I don't think they are, their english is even worse than mine (if it isn't obvious - I am not native english speaker).

We come to a conclusion that dead succubus = end of her Profane Gifts, but is petrified the same as dead? I am still not sure if I can just end all of them.

Suggestion for a single demonic lover are welcome. As fun as her harem of jelaous of themselves lovers is I prefer keeping that number to a minimum.

[Ipslore the Red]

Petrified is generally regarded to be the same as dead for game purposes, but slightly easier to reverse.

As for the demonic lover, what criteria should he or she meet? Some more backstory on the succubus would be appreciated to ensure it fits thematically. Also, what CR range would be good?

[AnnoyingOrange]

There is simply no good reason the wizard would know it works like this unless you decide as a GM there is a precedent of spellcasters abusing succubi like this. if you rule this an be done with a knowledge check the player sure will not be the only one abusing it.

This essentially is an evil act, regardless whether the succubus is evil summoning an evil outsider AND to take advantage of it, MANY times.
Now being cruel to a succubus wouldnt necessarily pin evil, inflicting cruelty for the benefit of yourself is.

Regardless accepting the embrace is also a chaotic act, but in the end it would pin more towards evil than chaotic.

It might not be a big deal in your games, though I wouldn't allow them to use the bestiary to flip through to see if there are any loopholes or rules to abuse.

[AnnoyingOrange]

"Petrified

A petrified character has been turned to stone and is considered unconscious. If a petrified character cracks or breaks, but the broken pieces are joined with the body as he returns to flesh, he is unharmed. If the character's petrified body is incomplete when it returns to flesh, the body is likewise incomplete and there is some amount of permanent hit point loss and/or debilitation."

No, petrification in itself would not end the profane gift imo, though I'd say being dead does.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Option #1: end the profane gift. Simple.

Option #2: let them get away with it! For now. For now.

Here's one way it plays out. Let the PCs congratulate themselves... and then ignore this. Act like it never happened. In a session or two, they'll completely forget about it.

Meanwhile, someone comes looking for the succubus. Boyfriend? Girlfriend? Boss? I like the idea of "boss", myself... a nalfeshnee or something, that notices Gladys hasn't shown up for work in a month and sends something or someone to track her down. It takes a little while, but eventually they find out...

...and then it absolutely hits the fan. Because succubi have been around forever, and the Abyss is ancient and full of evil. So this isn't the first time someone has come up with this idea. No! It's been tried before. More than once. And if you're a succubus, you absolutely, utterly hate this. It's a violation worse than rape, a violence more horrible than murder: they're taking your profane gift, that special hook you use to ensnare mortals, by force, and they're *getting away with it*.

Demons are chaotic creatures; they don't cooperate well. But succubi are a partial exception; they're social creatures, after all. And this is something that will unite almost every succubus in the Abyss in a concerted effort to enact massive, horrible revenge on the PCs.

More in a moment...

Doug M.

[Mikhail]

Ipslore the Red wrote:

Petrified is generally regarded to be the same as dead for game purposes, but slightly easier to reverse.

As for the demonic lover, what criteria should he or she meet? Some more backstory on the succubus would be appreciated to ensure it fits thematically. Also, what CR range would be good?

So receivers of petrified succubus Profane Gift are out of luck? Thats good to know.

My problematic team is:
- magister Hidan Lebeda, CN human universalist wizard 9 + his cohort spymistress Viconia CG (or maybe CN) female human (reincarnated into half-orc) bard 7
- viceroy Maksym Surtova, LE human fighter 5/Aldori swordlord 1/duelist 2
- general Mordimer, LE human fighter 5/rogue 1/hellknight 3 (with sorcerer infernal bloodline, thanks to Fey Market) + his cohort royal enforcer Telimena, LE human (rencarnated into elf) oracle of life 7
- Judas, LE human rogue 5/assassin 4

The players playing Maksym and Judas can play only 1/month, and not for an entire month, so now I am left with only Hidan, Mordimer and their cohorts, their APL is 10 (with Maksym and Judas APL=11), campaign Kingmaker, in the middle of Varnhold Vanishing.

Succubus was Planar Binded from the scroll, so it was a one time thing (at least before Hidan gains 11th level =__='), there is no real backstory behind her, she was just called, ganked, grappled, kicked, manacled, cursed, charmed, used and petrified. The life of a woman is hard, even in Abyss :P

Her demonic lover should be CR 10-13, generally demons are not known to have many friends who could help them, so s/he is the only one our petrified succubus can really depend on. Any suggestion are more than welcome, our next session is tomorrow and I had a tiring week.

Edit:
One last thing, Mordimer was against anything remotely demonic, the rest of the team worked behind his back, he doesn't know what they did, he and his cohort are the only ones without Profane Gift.
What's more, he promised terrible justice to the wizard if he ever catches him playing with necromancy and/or demonology :)

Edit 2:
Douglas Muir 406 - ok, I can see wisdom with a few succubuses (succubi?) working together to bring their sister back.

[Douglas Muir 406]

(Here's a post from a couple of years back about one way to make succubi more complex and interesting. Feel free to toss it into the mix if you like it; it's one way the ladies could organize their counteroffensive. Not necessary, though.)

Now, this revenge should be protracted. Let the PCs go on as if nothing has happened. Carry on with the campaign. Never even mention the petrified succubus, or any other succubus, or anything to do with them. You, the DM, must be patient. Let months pass.

Meanwhile, the demons locate the petrified succubus. They carefully craft a replacement statue, they carry her back home, and they un-petrify her. Of course, she's mad for revenge. That will come, she's told. Wait.

Then you introduce an NPC. This NPC should be female, clearly powerful, and friendly to the party. She should throw them some minor job, or help them with something. You want them thinking "NPC who is slightly more powerful than us -- ally or patron". In fact, she's a LOT more powerful than the PCs. Like, average party level +6 or more. She's a succubus with lots of PC levels, most likely as a sorceress. (Look at the Cha scores on a succubus. And when you build one with PC levels, you can add another +4 to that Cha. Now add 10 or 12 or 14 levels of sorceror. Yeah, good fun.) She's a senior succubus who is in charge of taking down the PCs. (They may later argue that sending a super-powerful demon against them isn't "fair". Well, trying to cheat the Abyss by a combination of force and trickery wasn't "fair", either. And, really, the Abyss has no concept of "fair". You're messing with demons, what did you expect?)

Anyway, the female NPC -- call her the Countess -- has a "handmaiden", who should seem humble, utterly loyal to her, and not very interesting. The handmaiden is, of course, the original succubus, now un-petrified. If the PCs show any interest in the handmaiden, the Countess may give some amusing story about who she really is... a trophy from a previous adventure, or something like that. You want the PCs thinking the handmaiden is just chrome. Mention her now and then but don't dwell on her.

Still with me? Okay, you want to establish the Countess as a likable, cool NPC and gain the players' trust. That shouldn't be too hard. Her Bluff and Disguise skills will be crazy high, and she'll have lots of magic to disguise what she is, and anyway she'll be giving the players stuff that they want. You know your players best, and can craft an NPC that they'll like and trust.

So then the Countess has a mission: take down a monster -- who knows? maybe it's a demon! -- that has infiltrated an important institution and taken over a beloved, respected person. Maybe it's the high priest of the Lawful Good temple, and he's really a demon now. (A vermlek demon, say. Or a shadow demon. Both those are pretty creepy.) Or the King has been taken over, or the Mayor of the city, or the beloved retired paladin. You get the idea. The PCs attack the castle / city hall / the temple... and sure enough, there are demons! (Summoned by the Countess, of course.) By the time they reach the high priest or the Mayor or whoever, there'll be no stopping them. They cut him down. The Countess tells them in advance that they have to disintegrate or otherwise destroy the body, quickly, before it can use contingency, so there can be no resurrection...

...and then the Countess reveals herself, and smiles...

...and then the handmaiden reveals herself, and smiles...

...and then she crooks her finger and, as a free action, calls all her profane gifts home. Boom: every PC loses the +2 bonus and 2d6 of Cha damage as well. Which is bad timing, because they're standing over the dead and mutilated body of the high priest, beloved old paladin, or Mayor. Who was, of course, not a demon at all.

And then the two ladies say, "See you again, boys... very soon." And they simply disappear.

This requires a lot of patience and some planning. But if you want to try it, I think it could be fun. What do you think?

Doug M.

[Cuàn]

Well, do you want them to kill the lover, thus only helping them, or do you want to scare them?

I mean, you could send a Balor over as her lover or even send the demon lord Nocticula to scare them s*#&less. The latter could be very funny, assuming you keep her from simply decimating them. In fact, she is more likely to toy with them than the balor would be.

Another option would be sending in something that isn't a demon as succubi don't limit themselves to demons and mortals. Maybe she seduced a dragon at some point? Or even had half draconic, half fiendish children.

EDIT: Or Doug's really cool idea.

[Alleran]

AnnoyingOrange wrote:

"Petrified

A petrified character has been turned to stone and is considered unconscious. If a petrified character cracks or breaks, but the broken pieces are joined with the body as he returns to flesh, he is unharmed. If the character's petrified body is incomplete when it returns to flesh, the body is likewise incomplete and there is some amount of permanent hit point loss and/or debilitation."

No, petrification in itself would not end the profane gift imo, though I'd say being dead does.

And funnily enough, you could split the statue of the succubus up into two dozen shards and spread them all over the world. And it still wouldn't shut off the Profane Gift, because she's unconscious until you turn her back into flesh and it spells out what happens if a petrified character is broken into pieces. They don't even radiate an aura of chaos or evil.

I'd say the wizard won this round. Congratulate him for being smart and move on, maybe sowing a couple of plot hooks for the future. Is it something you want to turn into a major thing?

[Mikhail]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

...stuff...

This post was made with 100% pure awesome!

Thank you, I'll give them hell ]:->
Well, not Hell per se, but we both know what I mean :)

[Mojorat]

Out of curiosity what alignment were the pc at the start of this? I say were as rhe descriotion of events along with a vokuntary pact with a demon would imply if they were good they should not be now.

[Alleran]

Mojorat wrote:

Out of curiosity what alignment were the pc at the start of this? I say were as rhe descriotion of events along with a vokuntary pact with a demon would imply if they were good they should not be now.

He mentioned that the wizard was CN and all the other players are LE.

[Trainwreck]

I have to say the biggest flaw in the plans of the PCs is the Charm Monster spell.

"Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell."

This is from the description of Charm Person. How do you justify the fact that the succubus didn't feel threatened by being beaten, manacled, cursed, and entrapped by a spell with the good descriptor?

There is absolutely no way the succubus would ever consider the party non-threatening after that treatment.

[Douglas Muir 406]

...actually, my interpretation of that is "any act that threatens the charmed person *after the spell is cast* breaks the spell." Otherwise, threatening anyone anytime would mean you could never charm that person forever after.

Doug M.

[Trainwreck]

The text of the charm spell says the target regards you as it's trusted friend and ally. YOU. So first of all, the succubus isn't any friendlier towards the rest of your party.

Why do you add "after the spell" into the wording of the spell when those words don't exist in the description? The memory of being beaten, manacled, etc. still exists in the succubus' brain. When she tries to reconcile that treatment with treating the caster as a friend, it creates a cognitive dissonance. The memory and the concept of friendship are mutually exclusive, and thus the spell breaks.

Once the party mistreated the succubus that badly, they gave up using charm spells as an option. What they want now is a dominate spell, a memory modifying spell, or even some disguise spells on themselves and some bluff checks to convince the succubus that the people who treated her badly were some other people.

[Ipslore the Red]

Made a thread about it.

Let us know what happens with your players, OP.

[Mikhail]

Ipslore the Red wrote:

Let us know what happens with your players, OP.

Taking Douglas Muir 406 advice to the heart I plan to take my sweet time before revenge of the succubi is finalized. With the speed of our game it can mean minimum 2 months before I can post something about it here ;s

[Ipslore the Red]

No problem, we can wait.

[Valmoon]

Mikhail wrote:

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

...stuff...

This post was made with 100% pure awesome!

Thank you, I'll give them hell ]:->
Well, not Hell per se, but we both know what I mean :)

As the saying goes, "hell hath no fury like a woman's wrath"

o wait...

[Master of the Dark Triad]

Another thread about a GM ruining their players' fun? Not a surprise.

If all your players like this, and it's not broken (it isn't, especially considering the trouble they went through), then majority wins because it's rules legal AND they're all having fun.

[Inconvenience]

Trainwreck wrote:

Stuff

A Succubus with the memory of someone beating and chaining her? Whatever shall we do? Honestly it just sounds like a casual Friday night for a succubus to me. With the "best friends" component of charm monster she would likely only be a little irked that they weren't rougher with her.

[Weirdo]

Master of the Dark Triad wrote:

Another thread about a GM ruining their players' fun? Not a surprise.

If all your players like this, and it's not broken (it isn't, especially considering the trouble they went through), then majority wins because it's rules legal AND they're all having fun.

They'll win for a while. Then they'll face realistic consequences for their actions. Messing with Demons is dangerous.

Now, the consequences shouldn't totally demolish the characters, but it should get them into quite a lot of trouble (after a suitable period of enjoying their gift).

Meatrace wrote:

No this all seems legit to me. Just remember, they will ping as evil for the rest of their days. Make sure that comes up.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:

This essentially is an evil act, regardless whether the succubus is evil summoning an evil outsider AND to take advantage of it, MANY times.

Now being cruel to a succubus wouldnt necessarily pin evil, inflicting cruelty for the benefit of yourself is.

Regardless accepting the embrace is also a chaotic act, but in the end it would pin more towards evil than chaotic.

Not sure if you're responding to Meatrace, but according to James Jacobs a profane gift registers on detect evil (and detect chaos). So even if this action isn't enough to change their alignment to evil, they'll still appear to be evil to any paladins, inquisitors, celestials, etc, they run across.

That alone is enough to make a group of heroes sorry that they asked for the profane gift.

[Mikhail]

NEW INFO, NEW QUESTIONS!

Can succubus use her Suggestion to make her victims publicly admit they commited crimes? And yes, they really commited crimes, quite serious ones too ]:->

In the last 3 months my team had their hands full of troubles, as I wrote above we play Kingmaker, part III - Varnhold Vanishing.
Player's playing a wizard Hidan Lebeda (let's name him Mark) wants more power, he is a Magister, but wants to be a ruler. Unfortunately for Mark this spot is taken, by an NPC lady Katrina Varn-Green (original ruler's widow, player character Thomas Green - notabene Thomas Green was previous character of Mark).

So what our little ambitious Magister do? He conspires with another player (lets name him Tick) who plays an assassin, and pays him to permamently exterminate lady Katrina. It's a success, the old ruler is dead, let's live the new ruler?!

I didn't even create this situation, it's all my players doing, but why shouldn't I use it to my own benefit?
Both wizard and assassin have Profane Gifts from the same succubus, who now roams free and is in town when ruler is killed.
Wizard Hidan reputation is already bad, so she suspects he is behind lady Katrina murder.

Succubus is planning to Suggest Hidan so he admits his crimes during his inauguration as ruler (maybe as part of an asking-for-forgivness-speech).
1) Can she use her Suggestion to make her victim publicly admit he commited crimes?
2) Could she Suggest him in his sleep, without his knowledge to act as suggested only when he'll be crowned? (this will be a trigger to act)
3) Is it a harmful act? (which breaks Suggestion) We are talking political suicide here.

Both wizard & asassin have succubus Profane Gifts, so she could Suggest them anytime, from anywhere, but she wants to use this once for maximum damage possible before they find she's free.

[Mojorat]

I think she can use suggestion, to kind of screw up his perception of reality. If she words it properly She can avoid the whole harmful act stuff because of that.

Suggestion lasts for several hours so yes she could set up a trigger. I think its harmful only if they are aware its harmful.

In general, A succubus with the right information can basically play horribly evil headgames. Keep in mind she can also make her own offers of profane gifts to other people. She can then use those people to trigger stuf flike she wants.

[Scarletrose]

I too feel that petrification should end the PGs effect.
Since PGs grant the succubus a direct link to the gifted and so much control from the succubus it seems like something a succubus actively mantain, quite effortlessly maybe, but still something she couldn't sustain as an inert statue.
I'm sure the wizard will find other ways to keepthe succubus in line... on top of my mind I think putting her in a room with a permanent symbol of persuasion to keep her loyal would do the trick.

I loved the Sister's market. Succubi are already my favorite and most featured monster, There are some similarities to my way of running them.
I will keep in mind about the sister's market when the party I am GMming will reach my abyssal layer of a deceased succubus demonlord who left 7 nascent demonlord pretenders behind (one for each sin) and they have to obtain something that only the crowned demonlord of the plane can grant them.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Mikhail wrote:

So what our little ambitious Magister do? He conspires with another player (lets name him Tick) who plays an assassin, and pays him to permamently exterminate lady Katrina. It's a success, the old ruler is dead, let's live the new ruler?!

Sounds like someone has been watching Game of Thrones!

Quote:

1) Can she use her Suggestion to make her victim publicly admit he commited crimes?

Let's go to the RAW. "You influence the actions of the target creature by suggesting a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two). The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable. Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell."

So. Can this suggestion be made in a sentence or two? Sure. Can it be worded in such a way as to make the activity sound reasonable? That's a judgment call, though I'd guess probably yes. Is this an 'obviously harmful act'? Well, that's trickier. If the enraged crowd is going to tear the wizard to pieces, and he knows this, then clearly the Suggestion won't work. OTOH, if all it does is ruin his reputation and trash the kingdom's morale, I'd allow it. Being embarrassed, even humiliated, is not harmful.

Also, note the weasel word -- "obviously" harmful. You can make a victim do things that are harmful, as long as it's not obvious to them. So, you could Suggest they go and stand on that X. If the victim does not know that X marks a trap door that will drop him 100' into a spiked pit, the Suggestion will seem reasonable under the RAW and he'll do it. By the same token, even if the victim's secret is incredibly destructive and harmful to him, you could Suggest that the victim tell his secret to Bob -- when you know (but the victim does not) that Bob will promptly tell the world. Or you could Suggest that he write it in a diary, and then steal the diary. And so forth.

Quote:

2) Could she Suggest him in his sleep, without his knowledge to act as suggested only when he'll be crowned? (this will be a trigger to act)

Yes, you could, but only subject to the one hour/level limit. So you'd probably need the caster to be in bed with the victim, so as to cast before he wakes up in the morning. Given that the caster is a succubus, this doesn't seem impossible.

Quote:

3) Is it a harmful act? (which breaks Suggestion) We are talking political suicide here.

Ending a political career _by itself_ is not harm. If it also causes people to attack him, or has him put on trial for murder with the hangman's noose if he is convicted, it's harm. So, if you want to pull this off, you want to structure it for maximum humiliation (and PC frustration), minimal chance of actually hurting the PC.

Doug M.

[Bacon666]

A team like yours... A group of celestals or paladins smashing the statue Would be fun...

The boss could be an incubus with anti paladin levels... Use that cha...

Find out if the cohort is CG. If it is, it could choose to leave the mainly evil party, and smash the statue on the way out. (let the char find a new cohort with better match alignment...)

A few gargoyles and stone golems might be offended by the "evil stone"

A team of thieves can steal the statue, so the party knows there's a chance the gift Wil be revoked at some point (if possible in the middle of an easy fight...)

[thenovalord]

Well done wizard. Enjoy your victory

[Mikhail]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

(...) even if the victim's secret is incredibly destructive and harmful to him, you could Suggest that the victim tell his secret to Bob -- when you know (but the victim does not) that Bob will promptly tell the world. Or you could Suggest that he write it in a diary, and then steal the diary. And so forth.

OK, new plan!

Succubus every night in the past 3 months telepathically plants idea in the wizard's mind to write a diary in the morning.
It seems innocent enough - he writes of his greatest triumphs and how he managed to obtain them (by the meaning of forbidden necromancy, summoning demons, mind-controlling his victims, murdering this country ruler - all of them true of course).

All of it is quite illegal, then, before he is coronated to a new ruler, succubus steals his diary and gives it to a council.
Wizard's plans are thwarted, succubus is happy, and wizard doesn't even know he was Suggested to write that damn diary (of course player will suspect but I'll tell him there is a valid reason for that).

[Te'Shen]

A little unnecessary silliness:

Ipslore the Red wrote:

. . . As for the demonic lover, what criteria should he or she meet? Some more backstory on the succubus would be appreciated to ensure it fits thematically. Also, what CR range would be good?

At least two to four CR above the party, as befits a Big Bad Evil Girl.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:

. . . This essentially is an evil act, regardless whether the succubus is evil summoning an evil outsider AND to take advantage of it, MANY times. . . .

Succubi like being taken advantage of many, many times. You might say they live for it. Victims die for it.

Cuàn wrote:

Well, do you want them to kill the lover, thus only helping them, or do you want to scare them?

. . .
Another option would be sending in something that isn't a demon as succubi don't limit themselves to demons and mortals. Maybe she seduced a dragon at some point? Or even had half draconic, half fiendish children. . . .

I recommend a female druid. Possibly of the urban variety. I'd go with neutral evil, though she probably didn't start out that way, and Very Predatory. I would suggest she have minions in a very wolf pack sort of way.

Trainwreck wrote:

The text of the charm spell says the target regards you as it's trusted friend and ally. . . .

Inconvenience wrote:

A Succubus with the memory of someone beating and chaining her? Whatever shall we do? Honestly it just sounds like a casual Friday night for a succubus to me. With the "best friends" component of charm monster she would likely only be a little irked that they weren't rougher with her.

Pretty much this. If you get a charm to stick on a succubus, she smiles, claps for a moment, states she likes your technique, and offers to show you her's. She knows its manipulation and admires it in a master-watching-a-novice kind of way... or possibly is disappointed in its lack of subtlety, but not really offended, I think.

Mikhail wrote:

. . . Succubus every night in the past 3 months telepathically plants idea in the wizard's mind to write a diary in the morning.

It seems innocent enough - he writes of his greatest triumphs and how he managed to obtain them (by the meaning of forbidden necromancy, summoning demons, mind-controlling his victims, murdering this country ruler - all of them true of course).

All of it is quite illegal, then, before he is coronated to a new ruler, succubus steals his diary and gives it to a council.
Wizard's plans are thwarted, succubus is happy, and wizard doesn't even know he was Suggested to write that damn diary (of course player will suspect but I'll tell him there is a valid reason for that).

I like it. Suggestion has a range of 55' for an average succubus so, as Douglas pointed out, you'd have to be close, but not necessarily in the same room, and it would last for twelve hours at a time, which is well within your time frames. I'd almost suggest giving her an additional racial hit die or two and... why is there no extend spell-like ability in the monster feats section?

If you want to add class levels I'd say sorcerer, oracle, bard, or ninja really play to her high charisma score... either that or invert a trope give her levels in ranger with favored enemy-human. Avoid making her too awesome, though, like no Sidestep Secret, unless the party is pretty optimized and you want to dress her in a mithral armored kilt and a sweater. And glasses... with the Lore Keeper ability.

[Beopere]

Suggestion: To become the best king you can it's necessary to be perfectly honest with your followers, you should reveal your secrets to them. Your inauguration is probably the best time.

Seems like a legit +0 dc suggestion to me.

EDIT:I see the plan has changed. Either way wanted to weigh in on this being a perfectly reasonable use of suggestion.

[shadowkras]

I probably missed it, but how will she cast Suggestion being petrified and effectivelly unconscious?
Or even communicate telepathically?

[axiris]

Just going to throw out there, that this would have been much eaiser from the wizards perspective to just create a simulacrum of a succubus and acquire profane gifts that way.

[Aziraya Zhwan]

shadowkras wrote:

I probably missed it, but how will she cast Suggestion being petrified and effectivelly unconscious?

Or even communicate telepathically?

Mikhail worked it into the background of the story that a group of demons or something noticed she was missing, tracked down the statue, replaced the statue with a replica (to make it look like to the party that nothing was amiss), and de-petrified the Succubus.

[Domhnual]

Mikhail wrote:

NEW INFO, NEW QUESTIONS!

Can succubus use her Suggestion to make her victims publicly admit they commited crimes? And yes, they really commited crimes, quite serious ones too ]:->

In the last 3 months my team had their hands full of troubles, as I wrote above we play Kingmaker, part III - Varnhold Vanishing.
Player's playing a wizard Hidan Lebeda (let's name him Mark) wants more power, he is a Magister, but wants to be a ruler. Unfortunately for Mark this spot is taken, by an NPC lady Katrina Varn-Green (original ruler's widow, player character Thomas Green - notabene Thomas Green was previous character of Mark).

So what our little ambitious Magister do? He conspires with another player (lets name him Tick) who plays an assassin, and pays him to permamently exterminate lady Katrina. It's a success, the old ruler is dead, let's live the new ruler?!

I didn't even create this situation, it's all my players doing, but why shouldn't I use it to my own benefit?
Both wizard and assassin have Profane Gifts from the same succubus, who now roams free and is in town when ruler is killed.
Wizard Hidan reputation is already bad, so she suspects he is behind lady Katrina murder.

Succubus is planning to Suggest Hidan so he admits his crimes during his inauguration as ruler (maybe as part of an asking-for-forgivness-speech).
1) Can she use her Suggestion to make her victim publicly admit he commited crimes?
2) Could she Suggest him in his sleep, without his knowledge to act as suggested only when he'll be crowned? (this will be a trigger to act)
3) Is it a harmful act? (which breaks Suggestion) We are talking political suicide here.

Both wizard & asassin have succubus Profane Gifts, so she could Suggest them anytime, from anywhere, but she wants to use this once for maximum damage possible before they find she's free.

This thread is pretty interesting. I am currently in a kingmaker game and it is going completely differently. My group is mostly LG's and Neutrals.

My suggestion I thought of is to have the body of Lady Katrina Varn-Green go missing. After a bit "she" shows back up to take her place back on the throne. It is fact not her, but the Succubus, who took her body and is disguised as the widow. Depending on how this plays out this could cause serious problems for the PC's. People would rally behind to support her and try to throw out the Magister turned Ruler. I imagine the magister isn't that popular, especially after she describes his assassin attempt on her. It could cause a civil war. She could even send word to the swordlords of Restov to back her in the civil war, being that her claim is legitimate. In the meantime, while having to deal with her, this will get even more complicated when they get to the next book and deal with the guys from the west.

This could make a very intersting scenario and it would be the PC's who originally set it all in motion.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Don't forget that the wizard gets a saving throw. Now, if she casts it on him while he's sleeping, you could reasonably say she just zaps him two or three times until it gets through. (And IMO a sleeping character wouldn't notice something being cast on him.)

You'll need a good cover ID for the succubus. "Lady So-and-so is an ambitious, intelligent young woman. She's the widow of a knight who got killed doing something or other, leaving her a modest estate. Make her short and blonde. (Nobody suspects a petite blonde of evil.)

You'll have to season the approach to fit your player and his PC, but I'd do it like this: (1) introduce her in some way that will make the PC like her... she brings him evidence of a minor but obnoxious conspiracy against him, or some such. (2) Emphasize that she's attractive, intelligent, ambitious, and poor-ish. (3) Give him the opportunity to hit that. (4) Have her make him a business proposition -- in character -- that goes something like this: "Last night was great, Bob. Now listen. You'll need a Queen; that's not me, I'm not high enough nobility. But you'll also need a Royal Mistress, and I'd be absolutely outstanding at that. I'm good at reading people, and I'm loyal. Courts can be snake pits. Take me on, and I'll watch your back." Or something like that -- you know best what will appeal to your PC.

A couple of tips. One, introduce her gradually (if time allows). If you throw this NPC at the PCs and spend a LOT of time with her all at once, it could be suspicious, so try to spin it out a bit. Two, give her a clear persona _in game terms_ -- like, she's an Aristocrat 3 / Rogue 3, or something like that. Have her act into that, visibly making skill checks on Bluff or Sense Motive or Knowledge, so that the PCs can interpret her actions that way. Three, note that the sex is great, but don't dwell too much on that -- you want the PC smug and happy, but you don't want him thinking Super Freaky, because that might turn his thoughts towards "succubus". Pitch the great sex as one part of an overall excellent package.

Finally, give her a chance to prove herself in a way that emphasizes that she's around the PC all night most nights. Have the PC offend some minor but self-important knight or noble. (Do this in a way that makes it the noble's fault, not the PC's -- Sir So-and-so is a pompous buffoon who believes his blue blood makes him superior, the kingdom is better off once he's dismissed.) Then set up a crude assassination attempt, with a couple of low-level rogues sneaking into the PC's bedchamber. Have him suddenly awaken to find himself under attack -- and his near-naked mistress (who woke up before him, so gets to act on the surprise round) throwing herself in front of him to take the assassin's sneak attack! Blood everywhere, but she's alive and screaming and has pulled out a dagger from somewhere to defend him, and -- now be a jerk and, if he tries to spellcast, ask him nastily if he takes his spell components to bed; you have a pouch of bat guano around your neck while you're making love to your mistress? I don't think so, Bob. Okay, it's on the night table, that's a standard action to pick it up, that's your move, now their turn, they're trying to flank you -- and you run a little combat, but of course in the end the assassins are easily fended off. And there she is, wrapped in a bloody sheet, tottering from loss of blood (poor thing, a hit that did just 12 points of damage left her hardly able to stand) -- but triumphant. "I said I would... watch your back... my King."

Of course she set the whole thing up with clever Suggestions and slander, but she's bright enough to have hidden her tracks. And while the PC is busy setting up defenses around his sleeping quarters, he's going to make sure that she's inside it with him...

Thoughts?

Doug M.

[Mojorat]

This isn't strictly raw so the pc are not a good target for it but some of the samples I've seen suggest a succubus with enough time can use the suggestion ability to create long term brainwashing.

Basically if she hits an npc with it enough she can probly brainwash them. This isn't useful on pc but she can use this top prep opposition with pitch forks and torches preprepares at the coronarion.

If she does the two line suggestion I think she can make him not aware he's writing a journal.